-Shiro-
Smash Journeyman
FF nair is what he is mostlikely talking about it works but its a real gable :X
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Wolf Tips: 2012 Edition
- Thread starter Ishiey
- Start date
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
You dont even have to fast fall it the first time I tried it I almost died cause I was way below the stage and ended up saving diddy with my up b so the second time I did it I waited a little bit for diddy to get near the ledge hit him with it then it worked you can also ff bair but thats even more dangerous :TFF nair is what he is mostlikely talking about it works but its a real gable :X
tekkie
Smash Master
it's one of the reasons i dont try it too much; if you screw it up, you end up below a diddy holding the edge. no bueno.
since upB charges, it isn't entirely predictable, but the longer they charge the more time it takes to get to the edge and the more time you have to react. i think with practice it would be useful. on the other hand, just like wolf, if diddy is forced to space an upB from directly below he's already ****ed up plenty hard
since upB charges, it isn't entirely predictable, but the longer they charge the more time it takes to get to the edge and the more time you have to react. i think with practice it would be useful. on the other hand, just like wolf, if diddy is forced to space an upB from directly below he's already ****ed up plenty hard
-Shiro-
Smash Journeyman
Again even if it does have multiple hitboxes if you hit with the sour spots you'll end up below diddy if not getting hit by the barrels and possibly getting gimped
I think if you're directly above Diddy the strong hitbox will connect for sure. The problem is not to hit him in the right spot [because everything works, really] but at the right time. With Nair that problem might not occur at all but I haven't tested it.
-Shiro-
Smash Journeyman
I've tried it many times when I would play vato or jebus it may just be me but I have an easier time just shining rather than nairing also anothre up with shine > nair is that diddy can charge for a while until he up bs so if wolf nairs he is stuck in that animation and just up b though that nair if he shines he can still jump shine or up b back safely since its a quicker move
tekkie
Smash Master
the frame data thread doesn't list how long the first strong hit of nair lasts; anyone know where we could hunt that info down :O
i mean its gotta be like 3-4 frames?
i mean its gotta be like 3-4 frames?
I'm pretty sure nair's strong hitbox is only out for two frames.
tekkie
Smash Master
yeah thats a way strict timing window to hit a flying monkey with if the weak hits arent effective
Hahaha, nair is one of the weirdest moves I've come across in Brawl.
I'll explain it in a thread I'll make later! :D
I'll explain it in a thread I'll make later! :D
tekkie
Smash Master
ooooh hype <3
FINALLY updated the OP with stuff up to this post. Looks like this thread died after we started talking about nair lol
Against Sheik, her upB doesn't have a hitbox at the end, and the first hitbox isn't really that large (although if you get hit by it you're kinda screwed). Time your ledgehogs well and you can REALLY limit her ability to get back. If she goes on stage, you can get a free aerial on reaction (I try to go for dair, if I mess up she just gets pushed back on the ledge but fair is safer).
On the same note, hog her out of her sideB if you think she's going to use it because if she whiffs that it puts her in a horrible position. She's also very easy to harass offstage with bairs when above the stage and shine when below. Sheik does have the ability to gimp us offstage with runoff fairs and needle snipes and whatnot, but to be honest we can mess with her recovery just as much as she can mess with ours.
Against Sheik, her upB doesn't have a hitbox at the end, and the first hitbox isn't really that large (although if you get hit by it you're kinda screwed). Time your ledgehogs well and you can REALLY limit her ability to get back. If she goes on stage, you can get a free aerial on reaction (I try to go for dair, if I mess up she just gets pushed back on the ledge but fair is safer).
On the same note, hog her out of her sideB if you think she's going to use it because if she whiffs that it puts her in a horrible position. She's also very easy to harass offstage with bairs when above the stage and shine when below. Sheik does have the ability to gimp us offstage with runoff fairs and needle snipes and whatnot, but to be honest we can mess with her recovery just as much as she can mess with ours.
If... If I'm reading this pac file correctly... It's just slightly smaller than the second hit of Wolf's Side B.
The windbox at the end is like, double the size though.
Sheik can recover from REALLY low and still make it back onto the stage. I personally wouldn't suggest following her at all (often times when I use Sheik, I fast fall right down to the bottom blast line before even thinking about recovering. lol), and just focus on hogging the ledge and punishing her when she's back on stage.
Alternatively punish all her ledge options. It's my opinion that Sheik has some of the worst ledge options in the game. All of them are slow and telegraphed. Up tilt and up air literally covers everything she can do. Just be careful of Vanish.
If I have time, I'll think of the Zelda vs Wofl mu.
The windbox at the end is like, double the size though.
Sheik can recover from REALLY low and still make it back onto the stage. I personally wouldn't suggest following her at all (often times when I use Sheik, I fast fall right down to the bottom blast line before even thinking about recovering. lol), and just focus on hogging the ledge and punishing her when she's back on stage.
Alternatively punish all her ledge options. It's my opinion that Sheik has some of the worst ledge options in the game. All of them are slow and telegraphed. Up tilt and up air literally covers everything she can do. Just be careful of Vanish.
If I have time, I'll think of the Zelda vs Wofl mu.
The first hit on her upB is that big? @_@ impressive, but still lol, I always used to assume that thing was the size of a party ball so it's smaller than what I initially feared xD
Idk, she can recover from low because of her fast jump, but what's she going to do to you if you go down after her? She lacks the disjoints and horizontal air speed to get through shine safely, and can't AD through effectively thanks to being a fastfaller. Agreed that it's still safer to take care of it from the ledge though, I rarely venture off for shine gimps (and continue going for it) when the opponent is more than ~2 character heights below the stage.
+1 for Sheik's ledge game being super booty. I just do the standard wait and fsmash if they don't jump routine that I use for most characters with crappy ledge getup options. On the same note, I believe you can dsmash her as she's pulling in from her tether?
Actual knowledge on Wolf vs Zelda?
looking forward to it.
Idk, she can recover from low because of her fast jump, but what's she going to do to you if you go down after her? She lacks the disjoints and horizontal air speed to get through shine safely, and can't AD through effectively thanks to being a fastfaller. Agreed that it's still safer to take care of it from the ledge though, I rarely venture off for shine gimps (and continue going for it) when the opponent is more than ~2 character heights below the stage.
+1 for Sheik's ledge game being super booty. I just do the standard wait and fsmash if they don't jump routine that I use for most characters with crappy ledge getup options. On the same note, I believe you can dsmash her as she's pulling in from her tether?
Actual knowledge on Wolf vs Zelda?
looking forward to it.
Zelda
Zelda, graceful but slow, presents unique challenges to Wolf. While she seemingly has terrible attributes that Wolf should be able to capitalise on, she will hold her own against unprepared opponents.
Things Wolf needs to watch out for:
Approaching. For the love of god, if you are approaching, you are doing it wrong. Simply by holding shine up instantly forces Zelda to approach if you have the percent lead. Approaching Zelda makes her work significantly easier, as she's not the one who needs to be approaching.
Moveset priority. Zelda's grounded moves > Wolf's, Wolf's aerial moves > Zelda's.
In general, you don't want to challenge Zelda on the ground especially if you're the one approaching. Zelda's attacks are simply too disjointed. Her jab alone halts all of Wolf's approaches. F-smash, along with generally being safe on shield will make your approach a nightmare. Dtilt also halts approaches and gives Zelda a frame advantage.
Challenging Zelda in the air and avoiding her anti air game. To win, Zelda needs to stay grounded at all costs. This makes approaching difficult for her, but it also makes approaching difficult for us. Throwing random bairs out will not beat Zelda. Here is an image of Wofl trying to challenge Zelda's primary anti air move with bair:
[collapse=hahahahaha]
Amusing yes?
Luckily for us, we have superior movement speed to help in our spacing and it allows us to bait Zelda into doing stuff simply by empty hopping all over the place.
Oh ****, I've been hit, what now? Depends on what the woman hit you with and on what percentage you are on. Up smash at 0% can chain into itself twice, however if you're frame perfect you can shine out (good luck with that.) Congratulations, you're 30% closer to dying at some absurdly low percent! F-tilt at low percentages can be linked into upsmash or nair. These are easier to shine out of, but still. 24-25% is nothing to be sneezed at. Dtilt at 50% chains into itself. Don't shine, don't shield, just SDI the hell outta there unless you want to be KO'd. If it manages to trip you, well GG. She has a +19 frame advantage on trip meaning if you're at about 100%, you're dead.
The first 4 hits of nair true combo into any of Zelda's moves under almost all circumstances. That's right, she has a true combo into sweetspotted bair. Of course, bair is hard, however utilt and up-smash and d-smash are not.
Up-smash at about 115% will kill you with perfect DI and MC. Up air will kill you at about 80%. This means it's important you never be above Zelda. Ever.
Zelda is bad at being juggled, so getting Zelda into the air is of high priority. Just be careful of dair if you're offstage since sweetspotted is enough to kill Wolf at 0%.
Basically vs Zelda you need to outcamp her and force her to approach. Her aerial approaches are trash and she generally won't approach from there. Her grounded approaches are meh at best, but just be careful of dtilt/f-smash and jab since vs Wolf they are totally safe on shield.
The woman is offstage. I have worked so hard for this moment; I feel like crying!! Don't cry yet, grab that ledge and punish her when she gets back on. Do not underestimate her recovery. It's surprisingly flexible (speaking from experience, I have recovered from UNDER the stage before).
Any other stuff? *shrug*
Edit: You can DI out of Zelda's forward smash by holding up. It works... most of the time. It puts you at a slightly disadvantaged position however.
Long post is long So once we force her to approach (with whatever she'd be using, idk what she'd approach with tbh), how do we shut her down, just fair basically? And are you positive about the safety of those moves?
I've heard some Zeldas say this MU is -3 because of how we outcamp her and her lack of any defenses once airborne, making it easy to chain bairs after a fair. Some other stuff that I don't really remember too, it was somewhere in the new MU thread a while back. It might've actually been your post lol. Anyways, thoughts?
I actually like to go out and try to shine gimp Zelda if she's not too low below the stage lol... is this an extremely horrible idea? Because her upB takes a while to start and she's completely defenseless, and even the slightest change in her position can make it much harder to angle her recovery properly. Her upB takes so long that iirc Wolf can shine and then sideB to the ledge before her recovery takes her there, and if she goes on stage you can just sideB her there :x Also, you didn't mention that her horizontal mobility after upB is balls, which makes ledgehogging that much better against her. Any more details on how her recovery is flexible?
So once we force her to approach (with whatever she'd be using, idk what she'd approach with tbh), how do we shut her down, just fair basically? And are you positive about the safety of those moves?I've heard some Zeldas say this MU is -3 because of how we outcamp her and her lack of any defenses once airborne, making it easy to chain bairs after a fair. Some other stuff that I don't really remember too, it was somewhere in the new MU thread a while back. It might've actually been your post lol. Anyways, thoughts?
I actually like to go out and try to shine gimp Zelda if she's not too low below the stage lol... is this an extremely horrible idea? Because her upB takes a while to start and she's completely defenseless, and even the slightest change in her position can make it much harder to angle her recovery properly. Her upB takes so long that iirc Wolf can shine and then sideB to the ledge before her recovery takes her there, and if she goes on stage you can just sideB her there :x Also, you didn't mention that her horizontal mobility after upB is balls, which makes ledgehogging that much better against her. Any more details on how her recovery is flexible?
I would say it's -3. She can get past the blaster okay, but there's not much she can do vs retreating bair and retreating fair when she's approaching.
Once she's in the air you can juggle her hard with up air and bair because she's so floaty.
Shine gimping Zelda is okay. Farores Wind takes about 33 frames to start and then she gets 20 frames of intangibility (including the frame she reappears on). When I said it was flexible, I meant no matter where she is, she can generally get back onto the stage.
I'm aware Zelda horizontal movement during helplessness sucks ( and is virtually non existent when recovering vertically) but Zelda will never recover vertically unless she absolutely 100% has to. Otherwise it's always horizontal or diagonally up.
Once she's in the air you can juggle her hard with up air and bair because she's so floaty.
Shine gimping Zelda is okay. Farores Wind takes about 33 frames to start and then she gets 20 frames of intangibility (including the frame she reappears on). When I said it was flexible, I meant no matter where she is, she can generally get back onto the stage.
I'm aware Zelda horizontal movement during helplessness sucks ( and is virtually non existent when recovering vertically) but Zelda will never recover vertically unless she absolutely 100% has to. Otherwise it's always horizontal or diagonally up.
SinisterB
Smash Champion
Just Bair dance all over her and SDI smashes (Fsmash). I enjoy going aggro on a Zelda but we make her approach super easy and by then she's already lost the fight.
If you can gimp her offstage go for it, but I prefer to punish her Farore's on reappearance. If she goes for the ledge that's an easy stock, if she goes for Onstage (which is usually), punish with an Aerial or Dsmash, or Flash if you've taken the edge. Just remember there's that second hitbox.
All in all it just takes a couple matches of adjusting to the MU and she's a goner. She's got a couple tricks, (see Ledge Cancels, Love jump ect) but for the most part are entirely punishable or don't really give us a hard time. Blaster still bothers her even if she can work her way around it, and DACUS with caution. Don't let her transform, either. Use Bair, Fair, or Nair to cancel her Din's if you're airborn. I think even Dair works, but the timing is strict. Otherwise watch your half cancels and other fast mobility stuff as to not run into one (8) of her Usmashes. SDI Dtilt, she shouldn't chain that more than 3 times and it will probably lead into a Dsmash. Overall just don't play like an idiot and remember she isn't completely free (lol), but we do have serious advantage over her and it shouldn't give us much problems.
Otherwise we win this, easy.
If you can gimp her offstage go for it, but I prefer to punish her Farore's on reappearance. If she goes for the ledge that's an easy stock, if she goes for Onstage (which is usually), punish with an Aerial or Dsmash, or Flash if you've taken the edge. Just remember there's that second hitbox.
All in all it just takes a couple matches of adjusting to the MU and she's a goner. She's got a couple tricks, (see Ledge Cancels, Love jump ect) but for the most part are entirely punishable or don't really give us a hard time. Blaster still bothers her even if she can work her way around it, and DACUS with caution. Don't let her transform, either. Use Bair, Fair, or Nair to cancel her Din's if you're airborn. I think even Dair works, but the timing is strict. Otherwise watch your half cancels and other fast mobility stuff as to not run into one (8) of her Usmashes. SDI Dtilt, she shouldn't chain that more than 3 times and it will probably lead into a Dsmash. Overall just don't play like an idiot and remember she isn't completely free (lol), but we do have serious advantage over her and it shouldn't give us much problems.
Otherwise we win this, easy.
tekkie
Smash Master
that is *the* best post i've seen on the wofl boards in *years*
Falco can apparently still CG us with a fresh dthrow at 31% :/ only gets him one regrab, but still.
If MK ever tries to do a reverse SL onto the stage from below the ledge, just shield and usmash OoS on hit confirm :3 Also, some MKs are smart and raise their tornado above your blaster if you use it at ground level to stop them, so beware of that and switch to retreating SH blasters instead.
If MK ever tries to do a reverse SL onto the stage from below the ledge, just shield and usmash OoS on hit confirm :3 Also, some MKs are smart and raise their tornado above your blaster if you use it at ground level to stop them, so beware of that and switch to retreating SH blasters instead.
SinisterB
Smash Champion
To add onto what Ish said, just make sure you're constantly mixing up your Blasters. SH and grounded, and applying Breverse to both every once and awhile. Walk/Dash away Breverse Blaster seems to catch them a lot, and you can chase them with a DACUS or wait to follow up their input error. Keep your shield tilted up when you're shielding a nado, and punish accordingly.
Try not to spend too much time offstage in general, his SL ***** us there. Flash cancels (Long) are super important in this MU.
And with Falco just make sure you're not forgetting about his BDACUS, if he tries it out of a Dthrow (which is uaually the case), just DI up. There's not much he can do if he chooses to chase us as we can just come down with shine or DJ to safety.
Try not to spend too much time offstage in general, his SL ***** us there. Flash cancels (Long) are super important in this MU.
And with Falco just make sure you're not forgetting about his BDACUS, if he tries it out of a Dthrow (which is uaually the case), just DI up. There's not much he can do if he chooses to chase us as we can just come down with shine or DJ to safety.
I've been playing Keitaro's Falco a bunch over the past months, and now he's decided that he would rather go Snake against me in tournament instead of Falco, purely for how annoying the MU is. Even :3
Against Falco, when he rapid jabs, hold towards him with the analog stick while mashing up on the C-stick. If you get high enough before going behind him, uair > usmash combo at low %s, pretty sexy. Either way, SDIing behind and mashing up on the C-stick has been working pretty well for me, try it out if you're ever caught in the rapid jab.
Against Falco, when he rapid jabs, hold towards him with the analog stick while mashing up on the C-stick. If you get high enough before going behind him, uair > usmash combo at low %s, pretty sexy. Either way, SDIing behind and mashing up on the C-stick has been working pretty well for me, try it out if you're ever caught in the rapid jab.
tekkie
Smash Master
tell him to turn around and grab, ggI've been playing Keitaro's Falco a bunch over the past months, and now he's decided that he would rather go Snake against me in tournament instead of Falco, purely for how annoying the MU is. Even :3
Against Falco, when he rapid jabs, hold towards him with the analog stick while mashing up on the C-stick. If you get high enough before going behind him, uair > usmash combo at low %s, pretty sexy. Either way, SDIing behind and mashing up on the C-stick has been working pretty well for me, try it out if you're ever caught in the rapid jab.
He doesn't have the time though D: idk, try it out.
People should actually contribute to this.
You can dashgrab Lucas as he's tethering in towards the ledge, somehow.
Against PT, don't get grabbed by Charizard at low %s. Bthrow > dashgrab is guaranteed at 0%, and can get you offstage into positions you'd rather not be in. I think he also has some more combos out of the second throw, idk, Mata was messing me up with those lol
Don't shield when Bowser is landing, his sideB is super annoying and since it doesn't screw his horizontal mobility he can actually use it as a viable landing option to beat shields. Jump and fair/bair/shine, his sideB comes out slower than our aerials.
You can dashgrab Lucas as he's tethering in towards the ledge, somehow.
Against PT, don't get grabbed by Charizard at low %s. Bthrow > dashgrab is guaranteed at 0%, and can get you offstage into positions you'd rather not be in. I think he also has some more combos out of the second throw, idk, Mata was messing me up with those lol
Don't shield when Bowser is landing, his sideB is super annoying and since it doesn't screw his horizontal mobility he can actually use it as a viable landing option to beat shields. Jump and fair/bair/shine, his sideB comes out slower than our aerials.
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
Well I was foolin around with snake and apparently if you nair the top of snake out of his up b you wont get hurt since I guess the second hit box of the nair hits the cipher
Also apparently if we try and shine falco falco can then side b and the side b will spike wolf down and end up killing both characters thats what kismet told me at least
Also apparently if we try and shine falco falco can then side b and the side b will spike wolf down and end up killing both characters thats what kismet told me at least
tekkie
Smash Master
we never got anyone to test di/sdi-ing underneath the stage and recovering, a falco did that to me and i verily **** myself
-Shiro-
Smash Journeyman
What you should do First against falco is get on a plat form any platform if your playing on FD that's your first mistake try dealing damage while on the plat form he will try to approch you trying to get you of if you get hit my lazers let it happen you are just waiting till you get to 40 + % just cause then he can't CG you if he does gets a grab on you try to SDI his Dair to the stage (obviously) After that all is done you may just try to hit him with bairs grabbing falco is really good because most falcos like staying in their shiled and they try to A usmash oos or try for a grab so don't try going for a punish just grab because mostlikely they are waiting for you
Another thing that most wolves don't really do that is really good is empty short hop to a grab since most people stay inshiled while you do an epmty short hop you get a free grab
something you should try doing is getting falco offstage if he does shot lazers to him he will take somefree damage if he isn't smart he'll fall thats when you can gimp with a shine. Umm I'm not too good at this game or good with wolf but thats why I do and it works.
in other news
VS Olimar
You may Nair his usmash not sure if anyone has tried this or tested it but nair can go though olis usmash it trades and it may get you a free grab or Dsmash.
Its a big factor when landing because landing vs oli is pretty tedious because he is a broken character
Also guys upsmash OOS is really good vs mk JUST SAYING
Another thing that most wolves don't really do that is really good is empty short hop to a grab since most people stay inshiled while you do an epmty short hop you get a free grab
something you should try doing is getting falco offstage if he does shot lazers to him he will take somefree damage if he isn't smart he'll fall thats when you can gimp with a shine. Umm I'm not too good at this game or good with wolf but thats why I do and it works.
in other news
VS Olimar
You may Nair his usmash not sure if anyone has tried this or tested it but nair can go though olis usmash it trades and it may get you a free grab or Dsmash.
Its a big factor when landing because landing vs oli is pretty tedious because he is a broken character
Also guys upsmash OOS is really good vs mk JUST SAYING
Air release Bdacus works on nearly every character that can be air release Side Bd.
heres a tip for Zelda. short hop B-air space the entire match at ground level, you basically instant win her by doing this because she has no methods that can combat B-air effectively she's like Falcon in that she can only pray for trades, but whereas Falcon can outlast Wolf Zelda dies from wolf F-air at the 120%s from a forward air or around 80% from a down smash then edgehog. Zelda is appauling vs Wolf, just spam short hop spaced B-air and she can't get round it without getting hit at all. Another hot tip you can DI down and reflector if you think Zelda is going to double U-smash you
heres a tip for Zelda. short hop B-air space the entire match at ground level, you basically instant win her by doing this because she has no methods that can combat B-air effectively she's like Falcon in that she can only pray for trades, but whereas Falcon can outlast Wolf Zelda dies from wolf F-air at the 120%s from a forward air or around 80% from a down smash then edgehog. Zelda is appauling vs Wolf, just spam short hop spaced B-air and she can't get round it without getting hit at all. Another hot tip you can DI down and reflector if you think Zelda is going to double U-smash you
-Shiro-
Smash Journeyman
I don't think Bdacus Works on falco only thing I see work is fsmash
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
Good to know.VS Olimar
You may Nair his usmash not sure if anyone has tried this or tested it but nair can go though olis usmash it trades and it may get you a free grab or Dsmash.
Its a big factor when landing because landing vs oli is pretty tedious because he is a broken character
Also guys upsmash OOS is really good vs mk JUST SAYING
And does upsmash beat Tornado as an OOS punish if he starts to retreat, or are you just talking about other moves?
Also is it true that it's like 2 frames faster to OOS upsmash with tapjump on?
-Shiro-
Smash Journeyman
I don't do frame data but if mk is retreating you have a better shot of just lazering to punish
most mks get gready and try to poke you just tilt your shild and set up for usmash oos
wtf, no?
Who on earth told you that?
Hit them in my behalf please.
wat
even
KNOW.
Bair spacing is assuming you have perfect spacing, which you probably won't. I can think of numerous things that beat badly spaced bair and most of her stuff will trade with well spaced bair.
And she gets KO'd at 80% wat.
KNOW.
I agree with it being a bad matchup for Zelda, but not entirely for the reason of lolbairspamz.
yup D-smash can kill her that early depends on where you are if you get it on stage but yeah sometimes you need an edgehog for it though and it's got to be sweet spot.
And it's not that hard to space B-air at the right distance i'd say around middle of wolf's foot downwards.
Zelda can try side step D-smashing but that only works around the heel or lower. Also 4 frame advantage from hitting her with reflector means free jab everytime you hit her with reflector :D.
some characters can roll behindwolf or try getting into his B-air to shield it but Zelda is too slow to do either of those options in those aspects, it can be possible that at certain distances Zelda Can use the sweet spot F-air but that's only player error on the wolf's part if this happens and Zelda completely un safe in the air it's possible on some stages to take her from 0-70% with B-airs after one punish of any of her short hop airiels. And thats nearly kill percent for down smash at the side of the stage.
I forgot to mention Zelda can Long jump fast fall a N-air but wolf can punish it on response with a reflector.
And it's not that hard to space B-air at the right distance i'd say around middle of wolf's foot downwards.
Zelda can try side step D-smashing but that only works around the heel or lower. Also 4 frame advantage from hitting her with reflector means free jab everytime you hit her with reflector :D.
some characters can roll behindwolf or try getting into his B-air to shield it but Zelda is too slow to do either of those options in those aspects, it can be possible that at certain distances Zelda Can use the sweet spot F-air but that's only player error on the wolf's part if this happens and Zelda completely un safe in the air it's possible on some stages to take her from 0-70% with B-airs after one punish of any of her short hop airiels. And thats nearly kill percent for down smash at the side of the stage.
I forgot to mention Zelda can Long jump fast fall a N-air but wolf can punish it on response with a reflector.
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
A couple of things I like to do with wolf while characters are on the ledge is blaster and jumpshine if you can time you jumpshine and blaster reads right characters will think twice before jumping on the stage I gimped espy using blaster cause he tried to spindash on stage off the ledge I stopped treala from jumping on the stage twice with jumpshine and I also made it harder for WIll DK to get on the ledge cause of blaster