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Wolf Competitive Discussion - Everyone mains Wolf now lol

Ishiey

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Welcome to the Wolf Competitive Discussion! I've been lazy with organizing the OP, so, oh well. But, theoretically, this thread will also be used to index other competitive-oriented threads over time, such as frame data and advanced techniques.


Nothing yet!
 
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AlphaSSB

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Is the Wolf Support Thread going to be carried over and made into the Wolf Social, or do I need to turn the celebration thread into the social?
 

Ishiey

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Is the Wolf Support Thread going to be carried over and made into the Wolf Social, or do I need to turn the celebration thread into the social?
Everything is so laggy right now that I didn't even get to see that there was already a thread up X_x Nothing needs to be changed for now, let's all just have some responsible fun enjoying Wolf's return in this forum and deal with thread organizational stuff later once the servers can handle it :)

Edit: Shifting this to a competitive thread to differentiate from the social thread. So for now we can discuss the mechanics we've seen so far and how they might impact Wolf! At a glance, ledge trumping is going to be a strong option if bair isn't changed much. Blaster seems a lot faster too which should be great for forcing approaches.
 
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mark welford

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I've been on a 3 year hiatus from the boards because I said I wouldn't return until Wolf did, he returned and so have I. I also vowed I would not change my avatar until Wolf returned, he has returned so I will change it soon but none of that matters because he's back!
 

tekkie

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actually I'll be constructive here

from the looks of it:

*fair is new
*nair is new
*blaster is HELLA new
*his dislocating jaw is new
 
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~Radiance~

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Well shiro i guess we finally get to main the same character now. Come @ me on twitter baby. Im looking forward to playing this iteration, as I stopped playing 4 when it became DLC the game and had no wolf.

This is Lawrence in case this isnt apparent
 
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KuroganeHammer

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*his dislocating jaw is new
Yeah tbh not a fan LOL

also

checking through some very early frame data

fair = frame 7-?
dash attack = f11, FAF 38?
dsmash = f15, f22 FAF 45?
nair = frame 5, 9f landing lag
jab 1 = frame 4
blaster = frame 11 (bayonet), frame 15~ (blaster shot)

dsmash nerfs reeeee but everything else seems brawl level
 
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AlphaSSB

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I'm hoping that Wolf hasn't been nerfed too hard. Plus, there's still plenty of time for balancing to be done before launch.

Judging by Wolf's in-game model, I'd say he's one of the fighters who still has some work to be done.
 

MarioMeteor

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Really hoping they don’t pull a Falco and completely destroy Wolf, cause he was one of my favorites from Brawl.
 

Roikal

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I'm really excited for this, never played too much Wolf besides messing with him a bit in Project M for a while, but I'm really looking forward to using him a lot in SSBU alongside my boy Roy. He looks really good so I hope they don't mess him up in terms of gameplay, but I don't think they will. Everything we've seen so far is really promising besides maybe a nerfed dsmash.
 

Acey130

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Finally, we're back. How long I have waited to go back to my true main.
 

Duplighost

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Do we see his dash attack in the trailer at the Boxing Ring scene?

It’s going to really suck if they got rid of the backflip for his dash attack he did in Brawl. That was objectively his coolest move. :p
 

AlphaSSB

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I think they went back and revised any attacks that may have been used from other fighters. Mostly speculation, but it's believed that Wolf's NAir was based off Sonic's spin, and Wolf's Dash Attack was based off of Sonic's 'run into wall' animation.

NAir is definitely a sex kick now. Looks pretty good, based off the small clip we've seen of it.

The dash attack currently looks like a sprinting knee. Looks like a strange hitbox on it though, as he attacked Bowser Jr., who landed behind him after the hit.

Just remember that Sakurai still has a few months to polish up on stuff with the game. Character models, lighting, and especially balancing. We'll certainly see some improvement with Wolf over time.
 

MarioMeteor

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That was objectively his coolest move. :p
Negatory. The scissor kick he does for his up smash is the best thing anybody does in Smash.

Wolf had some really cool-looking moves. I hope they preserve his style in Ultimate.
 

AlphaSSB

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Negatory. The scissor kick he does for his up smash is the best thing anybody does in Smash.

Wolf had some really cool-looking moves. I hope they preserve his style in Ultimate.
His Up Smash is also a move I could see being revamped. Once again, it's speculated that he took his Up Smash from Sonic's UAir. They look very similar, and Wolf even has to defy gravity to make it work.

If they replaced it, I'd love for a Project M-esque upward slash attack with both arms.
 

Duplighost

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Negatory. The scissor kick he does for his up smash is the best thing anybody does in Smash.

Wolf had some really cool-looking moves. I hope they preserve his style in Ultimate.
Hahah...fair enough. That one IS pretty cool.

Yeah, like you said, I’d be totally happy with his Brawl moveset. Unfortunately it looks as if his dash attack has been changed, though. But maybe the scissor kick will stay.
 
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Goldenadept

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RIP Dacus'ing Arh-whoo though :( Blaster looks like it has a new look/altered animation but still has 2 hitboxes. Hoping he has a more creative Utilt/Dtilt than last time, gonna need to see if that sweet sweet Bair is still there as well
 

AlphaSSB

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Probably been gone for 3 years lol. Glad Wolf is home, I can’t wait to see what he can do.
Damn, really has been a while. Your sig has my old username in it, ha.

Welcome back, Magnes. It's great to see so many familiar faces pop up again.
 

MagnesD3

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Damn, really has been a while. Your sig has my old username in it, ha.

Welcome back, Magnes. It's great to see so many familiar faces pop up again.
Yeah It’s nice to be back, I remember being a bit moody over Wolf not returning to say the least way back when haha but now that he’s back it will be fun to get back into the smash discussions again with a more healthy attitude now that I can just enjoy the ride.
 

AlphaSSB

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Yeah It’s nice to be back, I remember being a bit moody over Wolf not returning to say the least way back when haha but now that he’s back it will be fun to get back into the smash discussions again with a more healthy attitude now that I can just enjoy the ride.
Yeah, you weren't the only Wolf supporter who went MIA sometime after DLC was finished. Some left once they saw the base roster, and didn't even come back for the DLC speculation phase.

Anyway, glad to have you back. Still hoping more missing Wolf supporters find their way back here.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Jaded as it might seem, Magnes wasn’t exactly wrong to still have doubts even with the DLC period... but with where we are now, all’s well that ends well or however that saying goes, so doesn’t really matter now.

Ridley aside, looking forward to using Smash’s other space pirate again, who I had some of the most hours put in with. :wolf:
 

JosePollo

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His Up Smash is also a move I could see being revamped. Once again, it's speculated that he took his Up Smash from Sonic's UAir. They look very similar, and Wolf even has to defy gravity to make it work.

If they replaced it, I'd love for a Project M-esque upward slash attack with both arms.
His new up throw animation looks rather similar to his PM up smash
Screenshot_2018-06-14-16-40-46.jpg


His dash attack is more similar to Fox's, albeit slower and more angry-looking
Screenshot_2018-06-14-16-43-31.jpg


...and nair is straight up just Fox's nair
Screenshot_2018-06-14-16-50-06.jpg


Oh yeah. He also has a new down throw. It's similar to PM back throw, but he flips forward instead of backward.

Screenshot_2018-06-14-17-14-27.jpg

Screenshot_2018-06-14-17-13-40.jpg

Screenshot_2018-06-14-20-40-12.jpg


Seems to launch at like a 45 degree angle or something similar to that. Kinda sucks cuz given the animation you'd think it be somewhere between 80-60 degrees, but alas. Maybe with bad DI it can combo into Wolf Flash? Would be neat since Flash probably doesn't put him in SpecialFall anymore, so going for it and ending up offstage wouldn't mean an SD.
 

AlphaSSB

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His new up throw animation looks rather similar to his PM up smashView attachment 148686

His dash attack is more similar to Fox's, albeit slower and more angry-lookingView attachment 148687

...and nair is straight up just Fox's nairView attachment 148688

Oh yeah. He also has a new down throw. It's similar to PM back throw, but he flips forward instead of backward.

View attachment 148689
View attachment 148690
View attachment 148691

Seems to launch at like a 45 degree angle or something similar to that. Kinda sucks cuz given the animation you'd think it be somewhere between 80-60 degrees, but alas. Maybe with bad DI it can combo into Wolf Flash? Would be neat since Flash probably doesn't put him in SpecialFall anymore, so going for it and ending up offstage wouldn't mean an SD.
His Up Throw looks pretty good, curious to see what all it can lead to.

Dash Attack is different from Fox's. Fox does a flying kick, whereas Wolf seems to charge forward with his knee then extending his shin outward. Different style, wouldn't call it the same. The trajectory of the hit looks odd though, as in the trailer, he hits Bowser Jr. who then lands behind him.

Neutral Air is definitely more similar to Fox's, but at the same time, many characters have sex kicks. Looks better than his former Neutral Air, though.

His Down Throw looks great, and I'm curious to see what follow-ups can be made out of it.

One thing to note though is that the game is still definitely subject to change. Damage values, knockback trajectories, and hitboxes are all still being balanced. Wolf, given how low-res his model looks, is surely still in development, so we can expect to see some stuff change.
 

JosePollo

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His Up Throw looks pretty good, curious to see what all it can lead to.

Dash Attack is different from Fox's. Fox does a flying kick, whereas Wolf seems to charge forward with his knee then extending his shin outward. Different style, wouldn't call it the same. The trajectory of the hit looks odd though, as in the trailer, he hits Bowser Jr. who then lands behind him.

Neutral Air is definitely more similar to Fox's, but at the same time, many characters have sex kicks. Looks better than his former Neutral Air, though.

His Down Throw looks great, and I'm curious to see what follow-ups can be made out of it.

One thing to note though is that the game is still definitely subject to change. Damage values, knockback trajectories, and hitboxes are all still being balanced. Wolf, given how low-res his model looks, is surely still in development, so we can expect to see some stuff change.
Judging from how close he was initiating the attack I wanna say that was simply a reverse hit, which would possibly make the angle (at this point) anywhere between 80-60 degrees.
 

AlphaSSB

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Judging from how close he was initiating the attack I wanna say that was simply a reverse hit, which would possibly make the angle (at this point) anywhere between 80-60 degrees.
It's possible. Didn't consider that.

If that's the case, I'm curious to see how it fares from the front. What follow-ups it can lead into, etc.
 

JosePollo

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It's possible. Didn't consider that.

If that's the case, I'm curious to see how it fares from the front. What follow-ups it can lead into, etc.
If KH is right then it's something like 11-19ish, FAF 38. Sluggish start-up, but the low endlag in combination with what seems to be a combo-friendly angle should make it possible to get a follow-up fairly reliably, especially if (like most dash attacks) the lingering hit has lower knockback.
 

MarioMeteor

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Speaking of Wolf Flash, I really hope they let you cancel the Star Fox characters’ side specials like you could in Brawl.
 

AlphaSSB

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Yeah, shortening of Wolf Flash, as well as Fox Illusion and Falco Phantasm would be great to have. A lot of fun you can have with a simple concept like that.
 

Ffamran

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Going to add on to what AlphaSSB AlphaSSB said,
His dash attack is more similar to Fox's, albeit slower and more angry-looking
Fox does a flying side kick for his dash attack and Nair. Wolf's looks like an aggressive and street brawler-styled roundhouse. Bowser Jr.'s body gets in the way, so I can't tell what part of his leg he's aiming with. If it's his foot, then its either his instep or his toes. Considering he's wearing what's basically steel-toed boots, aiming with his toes will definitely hurt. He'd break bones and the angle looks like it would hit someone's ribs and arm area. If it's his shin, then it would that brings to mind the Muay Thai roundhouse which is said to feel like getting hit by a baseball bat. Going off of the characters in Smash, it resembles Falco and Melee Fox's Ftilt, but if they did it out of a run and always angled it up.

For other games, it reminds me of K''s blowback move, heavy punch + heavy kick in the KoF games, where he does a similar, angled up roundhouse aiming with his toes, but while standing. KoF XIV's version: https://youtu.be/Isnw6zSvtCE?t=46, and KoF XIII version: https://youtu.be/sO4f4TpdTKo?t=16. Use the < and > to move it frame by frame.

It being frame 11 makes me feel like they just wanted to replace the animation. The old one being a backflip and like Fox and pre-Smash 4 Falco's Up Smash was cool, but I guess they wanted Wolf to have moves that couldn't be argued as being from other characters or at least from Fox and Falco. That said, nobody else has a backflip for their dash attack anymore, so...

...and nair is straight up just Fox's nair
It's a flying side kick which is a common move in films, games, and martial arts exhibitions at least. You're probably not going to see it in real life fights because of how telegraphed it would be. That said, it resembles post-Brawl? Falco's dash attack and Smash 4 Ganondorf's grounded Wizard's Foot more than Fox's dash attack/Nair to me. Like Falco and Ganondorf, Wolf leans towards his back leg more where his back leg looks like its tucked under him instead of being parallel to his kicking leg. I wonder if that's going to cause an issue since it could mean his hurtbox is extended below him, but at the same time, if it's a sex kick like Doc's, Fox's, Luigi's, Mario's, and Sheik's, then it could also help him by giving him a lower hitbox than theirs. Man, there used to be a good picture of Falco doing a dash attack again Little Mac, but whatever. Here's a hitbox gif of it and an image of Ganondorf's Wizard's Foot.
See how they lean back like Wolf?



Fox's body is more upright for his dash attack and Nair which are pretty much the same moves.

Edit: Well, I missed that. They changed Falco's flying side kick for his dash attack a bit where instead of his left arm being forward like Ganondorf's Wizard's Foot and Wolf's Nair, it's crossed over his body: https://youtu.be/rJj9J5MW8xg?t=14.
 
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Spaceless

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Do you think SideB won't put you in freefall anymore like with Fox and Falco? Could be a really strong offstage finishing move kinda like in PM
 

JosePollo

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Do you think SideB won't put you in freefall anymore like with Fox and Falco? Could be a really strong offstage finishing move kinda like in PM
There's a good chance it won't. In Brawl he completely stops at the end point of the trajectory before going into special fall, but in the trailer you can see there's still some forward momentum to him after he hits Diddy with it (and the landing lag looks significantly lower, too), which probably means a change to other special mechanics. Fox and Falco both no longer go into special fall for theirs, which would be a huge precedent for Wolf also not going into special fall for his. Other moves that previously put fighters into special fall (DK giant punch, Din's Fire, etc.) no longer do so, another reason to think Wolf Flash could be used as an offstage finisher without fear of SD'ing, as well.
 
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MarioMeteor

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It’s probably going to work just like Fox’s version of Wolf Flash, which means no helpless state afterwards.
 

Spaceless

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I really hope it works this way. Would be huge buff to his gameplay. At the very least it will be fun as hell
 

Walfan

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Did anyone else notice that he doesn't have any kind of shine/shield device on his back or anywhere else anymore?
I wonder if that means he'll get something new. Could be a nice way to set him apart even more from the other space animals.
 

Questionmark222

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His nair's hitbox looks pretty insane. But hey I won't complain!

It’s probably going to work just like Fox’s version of Wolf Flash, which means no helpless state afterwards.
I can only pray for this, because apparently Fox can no longer use his Up-B out of his Side-B, which nerfs him a lot.
 
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Boartobewild

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Did anyone else notice that he doesn't have any kind of shine/shield device on his back or anywhere else anymore?
I wonder if that means he'll get something new. Could be a nice way to set him apart even more from the other space animals.
Oh cool, nice observation, in this case I hope it's a viscious counter( perhabs similair to lucario or greninja) and I'll tell you why.

Wolf ended up being a really nice surprise at the end of subspace emissary(especially since he wasn't spoiled like every other character), very similair to Ganondorf in melee ,who I got pretty late since I didn't bother doing event matches until the very end. I've always gravitated towards the more badass but admittedley edgy characters (:ultganondorf::ultmetaknight::ultmewtwo::ultgreninja::ultsheik:) so wolf fit up right my alley.

The main reason though, why I was more hyped for wolf returning than snake for example, was that his new look and playstyle instantly reminded me of Garou(translates to hungry wolf) from OnePunchMan. Wolf is pretty much the ( excuse my french) fursona, the spirit animal of Garou.(I would link or put a pic of him there if the site would let me but you can just look for him yourself)

Much like Wolf he has a pretty cocky, and arrogant attitude/temper but also serves as a foil and antihero to the cookie cutter protag of their respective series. His fighting style is refined yet brutal and untamed. So if wolf had a counter that resembles the WaterStreamRockSmashing Fist it would be perfect.
 
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