Wobbling

[ZoSo]

The only reason they are not winning tourneys is because they are being held back by the fact that they are average/above average players, not top-level.

So they don't win tournaments because they're not skilled enough? No ****?

I agree that wobbling is stupid, just like plenty of things in this game, but did you actually think you were going to change any minds with this post?

At this point, I think I agree with Cactuar, but I really don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. I certainly wouldn't fault any TO who decided to ban it.

And AZ, I'm pretty shocked that you just compared wobbling to L-cancelling, wavedashing, et cetera and everybody just let it slide.

Totally non-interactive, mindless technique that leads to guaranteed death. Not exactly apples to apples.

 

[unknown522]

yeah, that was a pretty bad reason I guess.

 

[swordgard]

So they don't win tournaments because they're not skilled enough? No ****?

I agree that wobbling is stupid, just like plenty of things in this game, but did you actually think you were going to change any minds with this post?

At this point, I think I agree with Cactuar, but I really don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. I certainly wouldn't fault any TO who decided to ban it.

And AZ, I'm pretty shocked that you just compared wobbling to L-cancelling, wavedashing, et cetera and everybody just let it slide.

Totally non-interactive, mindless technique that leads to guaranteed death. Not exactly apples to apples.

But the concept still applies, it "skews" gameplay in similar ways.


If you want to ban X for Y reason, then you must ban everything that adheres to Y reason. The reason here was that it was not "noob-friendly", well neither are most basic techs in melee.

 

[forward]

Wobbling is not the best choice when <30% because they can probably escape the grab before it happens.

I was thinking that we should have a seppuku rule. The person being wobbled has the choice to suicide their stock to make the wobble end quicker if they choose. I think that's a fair rule.

 

[Wobbles]

People have made the "seppuku" agreement with me before, and I usually let them, since most folks are pretty honorable in those kinds of situations. They're also making it harder on themselves honestly, because they don't spend time thinking about the mistake and usually charge in impatiently. They also remove the risk of me screwing up the ending.

Except for one gentleman who reneged on it, and forced me to infinite him until 300% for 2 stocks in that game, followed by 300% infinites in the next one. I don't like liars

 

[KirbyKaze]

It was Robmoney wasn't it.

 

[SwiftBass]

People have made the "seppuku" agreement with me before, and I usually let them, since most folks are pretty honorable in those kinds of situations. They're also making it harder on themselves honestly, because they don't spend time thinking about the mistake and usually charge in impatiently. They also remove the risk of me screwing up the ending.

Except for one gentleman who reneged on it, and forced me to infinite him until 300% for 2 stocks in that game, followed by 300% infinites in the next one. I don't like liars

lol

seppuku is the silliest idea ever. I'd wait it out and play the odds for an invisible ceiling or phantom or some beast smash DI. lol I even dislike pause quitting.

 

[forward]

I like that Wobbles is such a gentleman with the infinite and kills the person as quick as possible.

 

[KirbyKaze]

PP is a better gentleman.

He bought me dinner and even waited for the ambulance with me after he ***** me.

If it weren't for the horrible pain and holes burned into my clothes from the lasers, I might have considered it a date.

 

[Divinokage]

PP is a better gentleman.

He bought me dinner and even waited for the ambulance with me after he ***** me.

If it weren't for the horrible pain and holes burned into my clothes from the lasers, I might have considered it a date.

Lol, that's one way to look at it. =P

 

[Dr Peepee]

Lmao <3 Kirbykaze. You know I meant well. =p

As much as I dislike wobbling, I don't think there's much of a reason to ban it. It doesn't break/overcentralize the metagame and doesn't make the ICs suddenly start winning tournaments. I wish I had more to say about this but everyone hashed it out really well already.

 

[Deleted member]

PP is a better gentleman.

He bought me dinner and even waited for the ambulance with me after he ***** me.

If it weren't for the horrible pain and holes burned into my clothes from the lasers, I might have considered it a date.

he's a doctor, he's obligated to offer his services until a more qualified or better equipped technician (in the ambulance) arrives. make sure it was out of altruism and not duty that you honor his dedication.

 

[LLDL]

I agree, there really isn't a valid reason to ban wobbling. The proof in itself is that an ice climbers player has never actually won a national with or without the technique, and whoever knocked the IC's player our knows the matchup. Banning it is just enabling players who are already good enough to beat the IC's player to have an easier match. Players like Chu (who don't wobble at all) prove that it doesn't really matter whether it's banned or not in tournament. :>

 

[Mew2King]

chu wants it banned because he thinks it's overpowered

 

[LLDL]

I see it from his point of view, but he is following his own advice and still gets far in each tournament without it. Ice climbers isn't a hit character (hax) they are actually decent without wobbling. They don't have a great sheild pressure game and once nana is out of the way, popo is defenseless against a competent player.

 

[Wobbles]

Chain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA6Pl4Kfnvc&feature=related

First stock bro. I challenge that notion. Popo has the same degree of mobility and his moves remain the same, he loses de-sync traps and his damage output drops but he can still move, which is really what matters.

 

[Hylian]

If you decide to ban wobbling, what are you going to do to nerf the characters that are better than IC's? Or do you believe IC's are the best character with wobbling? If so, why have they never won a national?


Also keep in mind the infinite is not always present. Maybe it would be broken if there was nothing you could do to stop it, but if the IC's are separated or nana is dead wobbling no longer exists.

Just some thoughts for pro-ban people.

 

[KirbyKaze]

he's a doctor, he's obligated to offer his services until a more qualified or better equipped technician (in the ambulance) arrives. make sure it was out of altruism and not duty that you honor his dedication.

I don't think he was obligated to buy me dinner though

*swoon*

 

[Deleted member]

uhh how is chain ace in the MBR and not even in the user group?

good trick guys, good trick.

 

[DoH]

I'd say climbers are 3 times faster with just sopo. Plus people underestimate him

 

[AlphaZealot]

And AZ, I'm pretty shocked that you just compared wobbling to L-cancelling, wavedashing, et cetera and everybody just let it slide.

See this:

If you want to ban X for Y reason, then you must ban everything that adheres to Y reason. The reason here was that it was not "noob-friendly", well neither are most basic techs in melee.

Please read the post more thoroughly to understand exactly what point I was retorting.

Someone basically said wobbling hurts noobs. So does someone with more tech skill than them.

If so, why have they never won a national?

Chu won Pound 2.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Pound 2 was also 3.5 years ago :/

 

[pockyD]

'never' is a pretty strong word

 

[Divinokage]

You can no longer use the past to represent the way the metagame works now.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Someone basically said wobbling hurts noobs. So does someone with more tech skill than them.

Well, it's not quite the same thing. When people say it "hurts noobs" they really mean that it hurts them to a certain extent (since obviously it's not a black and white thing) and Wobbling exceeds a certain threshold where it's "too much."

Not that I agree with the argument, but we should make sure to be clear about what the arguments are.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You can no longer use the past to represent the way the metagame works now.

Marth has never won a national tournament.

 

[ZoSo]

Someone basically said wobbling hurts noobs. So does someone with more tech skill than them.

I understood your point, but I still think that has to be the worst slippery slope argument I've ever heard. I'm not saying I agree with the notion that wobbling skews low level play enough to be banned, but let's at least evaluate wobbling for what it is. It's completely different from L-cancelling or wavedashing or whatever else you tried to compare it to.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I understood your point, but I still think that has to be the worst slippery slope argument I've ever heard. I'm not saying I agree with the notion that wobbling skews low level play enough to be banned, but let's at least evaluate wobbling for what it is. It's completely different from L-cancelling or wavedashing or whatever else you tried to compare it to.

The argument I was applying to was specifically in regards to its effects on low level play, in which case the slipperly slope works perfectly fine. It's the same precondition in both circumstances.

My point was only that arguing about low-mid level play is completely pointless/stupid. If you want to ban wobbling at least have an argument that works.

 

[unknown522]

You can no longer use the past to represent the way the metagame works now.

Marth has never won a national tournament.

neither has fox..............

 

[Slhoka]

I really don't like wobbling, and it really doesn't represent the kind of skill I want to see at a tournament, yet I fail to see a valid argument in favor of the ban.

I'll probably try to unban it at the next tournament I will host. However I'm almost certain that most players will complain about that and ask me to change it.

 

[KishPrime]

Most players are scrubs, so use it as a teaching moment.

Or, alternatively, ban using shines off the stage with Fox. The other player doesn't have enough options to avoid death, they're too easy technically (you just push down-B once!), and it leads to low-percent kills. We don't want that.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I like all of these absurdly terrible comparisons to wobbling. It's almost as if you're attempting to dance around the actual argument by straw manning it.

 

[KishPrime]

I'm sorry, it's my fault. I just can't take the absurdly terrible arguments I've seen against Wobbling seriously enough to try anymore.

 

[Divinokage]

I really don't like wobbling, and it really doesn't represent the kind of skill I want to see at a tournament, yet I fail to see a valid argument in favor of the ban.

I'll probably try to unban it at the next tournament I will host. However I'm almost certain that most players will complain about that and ask me to change it.

Even with wobbling so far ICs did not win a major tournament, ICs are not that good of a character anyway. They are as bad as Ganon but with an extra option that maybe you'll get to 0-death someone. The level an ICs player need to be to win vs top players is ridiculous.

So, just leave them with all their moves lol.

 

[swordgard]

I understood your point, but I still think that has to be the worst slippery slope argument I've ever heard. I'm not saying I agree with the notion that wobbling skews low level play enough to be banned, but let's at least evaluate wobbling for what it is. It's completely different from L-cancelling or wavedashing or whatever else you tried to compare it to.

If you make an argument that bans Y for X reason, then ban everything that fits X. Its not strawmanning, its consistency.

 

[Wobbles]

Kage, are you saying I'm ridiculous? :D

 

[Divinokage]

Kage, are you saying I'm ridiculous? :D

That's exactly what I'm saying. =)

 

[Wobbles]

Yayhuzz. I got the warrior seal of approval.