With possibly one patch left.. How would you buff Lucario?

godogod

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#1
What fundamental flaws does he have that you guys think he's holding back? What can be made better? Feel free to go into detali.

Me personally, I want his forward and down air to going back to brawl. I want the end lag of extreme speed to be decreased to one second also.
 

Masonomace

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#2
The only thing I'd do right now for Lucario is the SH Fair > Bair. The effects / animation for Bair carry on even when he's landing, but when you SH Fair & input Bair, you land on the 15th frame of Bair so it's frame 14 of Bair during air time, yet the startup is frame 16 which is a bummer. Because of the previous patch increasing Lucario's fall speed, you have less air time frames which made it more impossible to SH Fair > Bair if you hoped Bair had a hitbox upon landing.

This is what I would change for now. Either have Bair frame 14 startup, or something I guess.

EDIT: I realized that your post's title is a question. Post a question in the Q&A thread next time.:p
 
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Jmon101

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#3
More aura. MORE AURA.

Naw but realistically, id like to see his throws set up combos more consistently, and a quicker bair would be nice.
 

godogod

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#5
Faster smash attacks sound like a great idea. I also would like lucario get a 10% speed buff..
 
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#7
Buff fair: Increase its active frames and its range. Or give it significantly less landing lag if the former doesn't happen.

Increase the range on the first hit of dair.

Buff the first hit of jab 1 to frame 4 or 5 start up and have it safe on shield.

I feel like Nair should get something minor. Just don't know what.

Buff Side B (Force Palm) by reducing the cooldown enough that it warrants a use against fast runners when spaced perfectly. (I'm talking about the Aura on Force Palm when Lucario is around 130%+)

Buff Side B by giving it an aerial grab too.

Revert ASC before 1.4 or 1.3.

Give down throw something to work with.

Obligatory buff counter to Corrinetta levels.
 

A-A-Ron

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#9
I always thought taking his aura and doing something completely different: Make Lucario not only stronger but faster as his aura builds.

Lucario has been a glass cannon with much more glass than cannon this game, I think that if there was a bold step to take with him it would be to put a little more cannon in him. Run speed increase, air speed increase, frame date gets faster (But not broken level faster) I mean yeah he is powerful when his aura is in effect, but how awesome would it be to see Lucario start to be faster and have quicker attacks? It would make it so he can be more aggressive with percent at 80 and above.
 
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#11
  1. Reduce Jab 1 start up from frame 6 to 4.
  2. Restore the original knock back gain (93 to 100) and angle of Aura Sphere charge.
  3. Have NAir hit 2 start right after hit 1.
  4. Increase FAir horizontal range by at least 1.25 times and increase hitbox duration by at least 1 frame.
  5. Restore the late (weak) hit of BAir, which was programmed in at one point, but was programmed out before the game's release. Or make BAir last 2 frames longer. Or extend the horizontal hitbox of BAir by at least 1.15 times.
  6. Reduce the cool down of firing Aura Sphere by at least 5-6 frames.
  7. Increase the horizontal range of UAir by at least 1.25 times.
  8. Increase the knock back gain of UTilt by at least 2 (5 or more would be a dream). Should allow for more UTilt combos. and/or reduce cool down by 2 frames.
  9. Reduce cool down of Force Palm by at least 2 frames.
  10. Increase the hitbox duration of DSmash by at least 3 frames.
 
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#12
  1. Reduce Jab 1 start up from frame 6 to 4.
  2. Restore the original knock back gain (93 to 100) and angle of Aura Sphere charge.
  3. Have NAir hit 2 start right after hit 1.
  4. Increase FAir horizontal range by at least 1.25 times and increase hitbox duration by at least 1 frame.
  5. Restore the late (weak) hit of BAir, which was programmed in at one point, but was programmed out before the game's release. Or make BAir last 2 frames longer. Or extend the horizontal hitbox of BAir by at least 1.15 times.
  6. Reduce the cool down of firing Aura Sphere by at least 5-6 frames.
  7. Increase the horizontal range of UAir by at least 1.25 times.
  8. Increase the knock back gain of UTilt by at least 2 (5 or more would be a dream). Should allow for more UTilt combos. and/or reduce cool down by 2 frames.
  9. Reduce cool down of Force Palm by at least 2 frames.
  10. Increase the hitbox duration of DSmash by at least 3 frames.
Reading these buffs makes me moist like a Goomy.
 

Nysyr

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#13
Even 4 frames wouldnt redeem Jab, honestly. The FAF is absolutely not worth any use of the move.

I'd be fine with Jab being fixed, Extremespeed not being broken on BF and slower than quick attack (move is pretty damn exclusive in the series, for god sakes).

I'd like to be able to cancel jab faster into a grab.
Cancelling don't do much when is got longer startup than our Grab already lol. That starting hitbox being above the head basically makes it F7.
 
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#14
Even 4 frames wouldnt redeem Jab, honestly. The FAF is absolutely not worth any use of the move.

I'd be fine with Jab being fixed, Extremespeed not being broken on BF and slower than quick attack (move is pretty damn exclusive in the series, for god sakes).



Cancelling don't do much when is got longer startup than our Grab already lol. That starting hitbox being above the head basically makes it F7.
We need a faster option in neutral. Even if Jab leads into only Jab it is better than nothing. I don't wanna make Lucario "op", but buff him in areas that'd give us Brawlfolk a little nostalgia and give him a better neutral/pressure game.
 

redcometchar

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#16
How about making the hitboxes on dair smaller and making the cooldown shorter so he gets a garunteed 0 to death footstool combo on every character in the game instead of just rob.
 

Pixel_

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#17
How about making the hitboxes on dair smaller and making the cooldown shorter so he gets a garunteed 0 to death footstool combo on every character in the game instead of just rob.
R.O.B.'s footstool is practically impossible if you try it, I don't think it really matters or makes him OP or whatever
 

redcometchar

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#18
R.O.B.'s footstool is practically impossible if you try it, I don't think it really matters or makes him OP or whatever
Its definetly not impossible, in fact i think its pretty easy and you can cover di options.

I dont think it makes him op either. Im just a little salty.
 
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#19
R.O.B.'s footstool is practically impossible if you try it, I don't think it really matters or makes him OP or whatever
Its definetly not impossible, in fact i think its pretty easy and you can cover di options.

I dont think it makes him op either. Im just a little salty.
Do you have a vid of this? Is this landing DAir hit 1 rinse and repeat?

If it does true combo we probably want to test it at different percents on each character.

You still get 9 frames of landing lag on DAir, unless you land one frame after the first hitbox comes out, which is tricky... Especially with the stall properties of DAir. I don't think it is impossible though to perfect land it. You need 19 frames at the very least of hitstun advantage for DAir hit 1 landing to FP grab.

SDI exists though, so I am not sure how much we can guarantee. Plus higher knock back at higher percents.
 

redcometchar

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#20
Do you have a vid of this? Is this landing DAir hit 1 rinse and repeat?

If it does true combo we probably want to test it at different percents on each character.

You still get 9 frames of landing lag on DAir, unless you land one frame after the first hitbox comes out, which is tricky... Especially with the stall properties of DAir. I don't think it is impossible though to perfect land it. You need 19 frames at the very least of hitstun advantage for DAir hit 1 landing to FP grab.

SDI exists though, so I am not sure how much we can guarantee. Plus higher knock back at higher percents.
I do. I think we are confused on exactly which one i am referring too and thats my fault.

Im talking about this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8SzWwLx-XU

Fair -> footstool-> dair (doesn't hit)-> aura sphere

If the hitboxes on dair were smaller, you could do this on other characters. I meant it almost as a joke, because it would technically be a nerf...
 
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jchaosmaster

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#22
I would buff 1 of three things. 1 his up special, 2 his counter, 3 his nul air

For his up special either reduce the amount of end lag or let him down dodge before the animation is over. He has so many areas to punish he shouldn't just by getting back to stage.

The counter I would decrease the end lag as he gets closer to max aura or decrease start lag. Mostly to balance counters. Shuck get the longest. FA get the most basic overall damage and let luc have fastest to activate. it being a all out move if done wrong

My buff to the nul air would be shave 1 frame off the start so it can combo with the down throw easier at low damage
 

Pixel_

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#23
I would buff 1 of three things. 1 his up special, 2 his counter, 3 his nul air

For his up special either reduce the amount of end lag or let him down dodge before the animation is over. He has so many areas to punish he shouldn't just by getting back to stage.

The counter I would decrease the end lag as he gets closer to max aura or decrease start lag. Mostly to balance counters. Shuck get the longest. FA get the most basic overall damage and let luc have fastest to activate. it being a all out move if done wrong

My buff to the nul air would be shave 1 frame off the start so it can combo with the down throw easier at low damage
Doesn't Lucario combo with up throw?
 

snizz14

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#25
Buff his counter, make jab have better faf frames cause it sucks, lower endlag of force palm to make it more safe, boost hitbox of first hit of dair cuz it's very small, make nair more like sheiks and hit at the same time. this is all lucario needs tbh
 
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#26
What fundamental flaws does he have that you guys think he's holding back? What can be made better? Feel free to go into detail.

Me personally, I want his forward and down air to going back to brawl. I want the end lag of extreme speed to be decreased to one second also.
Pretty much this^^ (along with N-air getting the lingering hitbox back but maybe by like 2 frames, I want to combo with Lucario just like in Brawl (without the chain grabs), and fix his B-air so it has the 15 frames to match his increased falling speed).

I'd also like a headbonk removal too (like what ChikiLucario ChikiLucario said) seeing as Greninja got it, why not Lucario? And maybe make him slightly faster by 1 second.
 
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#28
His backair should have 2-3 frames taken off his landing lag.

Edit: Also Remove head bonk problem, or make him be able to snap the ledge quicker if he does bonk the stage.
 
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