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[WIP] Sheik's best true combos, including kill setups/strings

ArikadoSD

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I believe a thread like this was long overdue. There is a thread with a lot of combos and most of the techs noted down and written by Absol 359 , but it's a bit outdated and Absol has been MIA as far as I'm concerned, so I thought making this thread would be a good idea.

Some terms I might be using that might not be familiar to newer smashers:
Rage
Fresh/Stale
Fast Fall
DI (Directional Influence)
RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush)

If you don't know what any of those means, I suggest looking it up or asking me directly or in this thread and I'm sure many will be glad to help.

Some abbreviations I'll be using
Fair - Forward Air
Bair - Back Air
Nair - Neutral Air
Dair - Down Air
Uair - Up Air
Fthrow, Bthrow, Dthrow
Ftilt, Utilt, Dtilt
BF - Bouncing Fish (Down B)
SH / sh - short hop
FH / fh - full hop
SHFF - Short Hop Fast Fall


IMPORTANT:

Red will be bread 'n butter things, basic combos that are good and efficient, must know.
Green will be stuff that are useful to know or keep in mind.
Combos with (KS) marked next to them are kill setups that work at high/kill percentages.
Uncoloured doesn't mean anything, they're just combos that you could do to up your game if you want.

Note: This resource doesn't have combos including custom moves yet.

So with all that noted down let's start:

Sheik's True Combos:

Ftilt > Ftilt > Ftilt (rinse and repeat depending on % and character)
Really straightforward. Ftilt combos into itself for some nice percentage. Be careful though because it doesn't strictly true combo; but it does frame trap opponents who lack a frame 3 move (so this doesn't work on characters such as Yoshi, Mario, and Luigi). This should work at low percents. Additionally, some fastfallers like Fox or Greninja can DI down and shield from 0%, so that means they require to be at a bit higher percents so that when you ftilt them they don't stay at the ground. The percent that works on them should be from approximately 10-20%. And finally, if the opponent DOES have a frame 3 move, then it's best to ftilt and then grab or ftilt and do an aerial instead of trying to combo ftilt into itself.

Ftilt > Fair
Another straight forward combo. Ftilt into Fair can lead into a Fair string also. This should work on all the cast bar Jigglypuff because she's literally a balloon. Should work at all percents, but it will only lead into fair strings at low percents, otherwise you can only get 1 fair off at higher percents.

(Tipper Dtilt) > Ftilt > RAR/turnaround Bair
This is very similar to Ftilt > Fair in the sense it's used to rack up damage. Bair can then lead into other Bairs which is nice as it racks up damage. Dtilt can true combo into Ftilt as well which can then combo into Bair.

Ftilt > Uair (KS)
This should also be straightforward, when using Ftilt at high/mid percentages

Fthrow / Fair > SHFF Fair > SHFF Fair rinse and repeat
Sheik's best combo and the reason she's despised by many; the Fair strings. This is only possibly at low percents starting from 0-10% to about up to 50-60% depending on the other character. The combo is done by using SH Fair and then quickly fast falling. The inputs are sh > fair > fast fall. This requires practice to get down but it's EXTREMELY important to your Sheik gameplay and absolutely vital. Fair is half the reason Sheik is so good.

Fthrow > BF
Basic combo that can best work at low percents, but can also work at high percents by quickly jumping and then immediately using BF as soon as Sheik finishes her jump squat. The percentages at which the combo works varies, but the only character that it doesn't work on is Jigglypuff. There are some floaty and small characters that this wouldn't work on at mid/high percents, most notably Mario and Luigi, but other than that it's a good combo for some quick free damage, only downfall is that it can make you give up stage positioning and resets the situation to neutral, which is why a lot of Sheik mains opt to go for other combos such as Fair strings from Fthrow.

Falling Fair > BF
Good combo for racking up damage; it works starting from mid-percents (to be more accurate it starts at 25% on Mario, but it's best used at around 40% because Fair will send them at a good distance to where a quick bouncing fish will connect. At 25% Fair sends them a short distance and it's a bit difficult) all the way up to high percents of about 100%. Although at higher percents you're sometimes forced to run, jump, and do a quick BF in order for it to true combo.

Bair / Nair > BF
These combos aren't that important but they're good to keep in mind because both Nair and Bair can confirm into BF and they give good damage and stage control. Usually BF would confirm out of a falling nair/bair.

Dthrow / Fthrow > Uair (KS)
I doubt this needs explaining. Really basic Dthrow combo that's good for some quick damage. Dthrow is better in order to follow up with a Uair, but if opponents DI Fthrow incorrectly and go up and towards Sheik, then it's possible to follow up with a Uair, and you can react to their DI easily and do this. At really high percents (about 120-130% a bit higher or lower depending on rage, character, and stage) this combo is a kill setup and sometimes you have to read an airdodge, wait, and then do a Uair to kill.

Dtilt > Uair (KS)
This combo is good but isn't a must-know because it's a bit hard to get and requires good spacing. Dtilt has to be spaced so that the very end of the hitbox connects. The reason for that is because at the tip of the hitbox it will send opponents in a trajectory that's perfect to connect a Uair easily. If it hits anywhere besides the tip of the hitbox, it sends people in an ~45 degree angle, making it unlikely that you'll be able to follow up with anything. This works at high percents where Uair can kill after a dtilt.

(sourspot nair) > FH charged Needles > BF (KS)
Probably Sheik's most famous and flashy combo, and admittedly her best kill setup. This works by doing a full hop and releasing your needles as you jump so that Sheik will release them at the apex of her jump and still have a little bit of time to input a bouncing fish before she lands. Should work starting 100% but stops working at ~150% due to the needles sending them too high up to follow it with a bouncing fish. In some rare cases you might have to quickly double jump before inputting bouncing fish because needles send them a bit too high. This combo is difficult to do with default controls so I recommend setting one of the shoulder buttons (L or R.. I personally use L) as jump so it's a lot easier.

Sourspot nair can combo into FH needles to set up the combo but it's not necessary and a bit difficult.

Fair > Grab
Fair can lead into a guaranteed grab on pretty much every character at really low percents (from 0%). It's really easy to do and a very good way to secure a grab because Fair can be made to be safe on shield and safe in neutral in general. After the grab, you can go for any followup you like, with the most efficient being a Fair string (which I wrote about a bit earlier), but depending on the situation (for example if you're right at the edge) fthrow > bf can be a better option.

Fthrow > RAR Bair
Similar to Fthrow > Fair, this combo can be used to rack up damage starting from low-mid percents (it's more efficient to use fair strings at really low percents) up until high percents. It's good because Bair has good range and does more damage and has slightly more knockback than Fair.

Fthrow > SHFF Fair > SHFF Fair > Grab > Followup (can be another fair to start a string, or bouncing fish, depends)
This combo only works on specific characters, including Diddy Kong, Captain Falcon, Sheik, Fox, Greninja, and maybe a couple more, not much testing has been done. In general this works on fastfallers and should only work from 0% or at most 5-10%. Racks up A LOT of damage and brings opponents to the edge of the stage usually and can put them in a very bad position.

Utilt > Bouncing Fish
Many people don't know this or use this combo, but the 2nd hit of utilt can confirm into a bouncing fish at mid percents (around 60-80%) and it's a good mixup. Sometimes it's not guaranteed however, and that's when the next two combos could be used instead:

Utilt > Fair / turnaround Bair
This is a lot more guaranteed than bouncing fish but a bit less rewarding. Still a good conversion for quick damage and stage positioning however. Utilt in these situations is mostly used as a mixup however, otherwise Ftilt is usually better.

Burst Grenade > BF
Not exactly a combo you'd be using often by any means, but if you ever connect a Burst Grenade, then you can instantly BF as the grenade bursts and just about as the opponents are put in hitstun and it'll combo for a massive 22-24% percent. Be careful though, because if they're at high percents then Burst Grenade can kill them and if you use BF you'll reduce the knockback and it might not kill because BF has significantly less knockback than Sheik's grenade. This is the most optimal combo to go for if your opponent ever gets their shield broken for whatever reason.
 
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Smog Frog

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other useful things:
fair->usmash(tested in training on :4pit: with no DI, works in the 60-70% range and does 20%)
bthrow->bouncing fish(tested in training on :4pit: with no di, 0-120%, 19%, requires a jump after 40%~, character dependent since i could NOT get this to work on :4mario:)

rising needles->bouncing fish(tested in training on :4pit: with no di, you have to use the needles AS you jump so you can execute the bouncing fish, 99->146%, 18-21% depending on how many needles hit, and a kill setup)
 

ArikadoSD

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rising needles->bouncing fish(tested in training on :4pit: with no di, you have to use the needles AS you jump so you can execute the bouncing fish, 99->146%, 18-21% depending on how many needles hit, and a kill setup)
are you really trying to teach me how to do needles > bf

joking aside, i'm gonna include that along with kill set ups.
 

pokio55

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Should up tilt > up smash be considered something decent to know? Even though it still needs some more testing.
 

Ascen

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U-tilt -> U-Smash is debatable because of the nature of landing U-tilt in the first place, and the lack of testing so far. It's only a true combo when performed on a CPU in training mode set to Stop, so more testing needs to be done in order to find out if the combo works with DI.
 
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Joaco

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Thanks Arikadox! This thread was one of the things Sheik boards needed
 

ShinRamen

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fast fall fair -> rising fair
rising fair -> rising fair
fast fall fair -> rar bair
rising fair -> rar bair
f tilt -> rising fair
f tilt -> turnaround bair

obviously use them all in combination with each other, for example f tilt -> fair -> rar bair

kill set-up: tipper d tilt -> up air (50-50 airdodge/jump)
 

WondrousMoose

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I'm surprised there's no mention of Ftilt here. It combos into itself and/or Fair at lower percents, as well as Uair at higher.
 

ArikadoSD

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Keep in mind this is just a WIP for now, basically I posted it to show that I'm working on it lol.

Thanks for all the inputs though, keep them coming!
 

ArikadoSD

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This has been updated with a bunch of combos from ftilt and I added needles > bf. Also updated the format a bit and made it so that combos with (KS) next to them are kill setups.

I'll add combos that have RAR bair (fthrow > rar bair; ftilt > rar bair) later on, and some combos I'm sure I forgot that I'll probably remember later on as well. Appreciate the feedback/input guys!

Also I'll be adding stuff that aren't combos but are good set ups. Dthrow/Fthrow > Vanish and Fthrow > fair > fair > regrab > followup that works on some characters, also just a simple fair to grab at mid percents (@ Illuminose Illuminose )

I'll probably be updating this daily.
 
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Joaco

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Great job, if you need help with something tell us!
 

ArikadoSD

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Updated with a couple combos:

Ftilt > Bair
Fthrow > RAR Bair
Fthrow > SHFF Fair > SHFF Fair > Regrab > followup on fastfallers (sometimes another SHFF Fair can fit before the regrab depending on DI

I'm not sure if I should add Bthrow > BF, it never true comboed for me but it somehow works. Any info on that?
 
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BlastHappyNinja

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Updated with a couple combos:

Ftilt > Bair
Fthrow > RAR Bair
Fthrow > SHFF Fair > SHFF Fair > Regrab > followup on fastfallers (sometimes another SHFF Fair can fit before the regrab depending on DI

I'm not sure if I should add Bthrow > BF, it never true comboed for me but it somehow works. Any info on that?
No clue, but I think that either Ftilt or Fair combo into Fsmash, you might want to try one of those two options out because I remember pulling it off quite a lot at low percents. Not that it's a kill setup but it's a good way to tack on damage or as a mix-up it could also work.
 

ArikadoSD

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No clue, but I think that either Ftilt or Fair combo into Fsmash, you might want to try one of those two options out because I remember pulling it off quite a lot at low percents. Not that it's a kill setup but it's a good way to tack on damage or as a mix-up it could also work.
Fsmash is a really interesting move. Sometimes I combo bair to Fsmash at low percents and a lot of the times I combo fsmash into bouncing fish at really low percents.. I need to lab this a bit
 

W_is_for_Wumbo

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if i might i add some input from my own tech

at very low % (notably 0 for most characters) f-throw to BF is not always the best option. fthrow to fair will typically space the opponent just right that you can then fast fall into an up air. this will drag the opponent back down to the stage, allowing for a regrab, which you can either fthrow to BF out of, or try your luck with this combo again (it's quite hard, but i've done it on opponents who are confused on how to DI)

unfortunately i don't have footage of this but i encourage you to try it in training mode

one more piece of advice i can give is that if your short hop fairs are sending opponents too far across the stage (thus preventing a regrab) consider dash-attack cancelled grabbing your opponent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Tswo8Pimg&feature=youtu.be&t=57s
 

ArikadoSD

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if i might i add some input from my own tech

at very low % (notably 0 for most characters) f-throw to BF is not always the best option. fthrow to fair will typically space the opponent just right that you can then fast fall into an up air. this will drag the opponent back down to the stage, allowing for a regrab, which you can either fthrow to BF out of, or try your luck with this combo again (it's quite hard, but i've done it on opponents who are confused on how to DI)

unfortunately i don't have footage of this but i encourage you to try it in training mode

one more piece of advice i can give is that if your short hop fairs are sending opponents too far across the stage (thus preventing a regrab) consider dash-attack cancelled grabbing your opponent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Tswo8Pimg&feature=youtu.be&t=57s
I'm pretty sure I covered that information throughout the OP.

"only downfall is that it can make you give up stage positioning and resets the situation to neutral, which is why a lot of Sheik mains opt to go for other combos such as Fair strings from Fthrow."

As for fast falled uair to regrab, it's cool I guess, but I know from experience it really doesn't work that well except maybe on heavies. The best theoretical option off of Fthrow is a Fair string or a few Fairs that lead to a regrab and then to a followup. Fthrow > Fair > Fair > (go for 3rd Fair) or Regrab > fthrow > bouncing fish is a true combo on a lot of characters and does a huge 42% if you went for two fairs. I also have this combo covered in the OP.

As for using the dash attack canceled grabs (called boost grabs :p), that's interesting, never knew they had that one specific application. I'll look into it when I wake up, thanks!
 

WondrousMoose

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I think the OP should be arranged into categories by percent (low/mid/high) for easier reading. Also, let's be careful about ~0%, as most attacks perfect combo around there. OP might get a bit cluttered.
 

pokio55

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I'm morbidly curious if you guys will be posting/displaying combos that are NOT true. Something like: Jab 1+2 > grab/ ftilt -> grab. There are obviously more but I was justing using that as an example.

Also, can I talk about some unorthodox combos?
 
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ArikadoSD

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I'm morbidly curious if you guys will be posting/displaying combos that are NOT true. Something like: Jab 1+2 > grab/ ftilt -> grab. There are obviously more but I was justing using that as an example.

Also, can I talk about some unorthodox combos?
I will include that yes.

And sure, go ahead lol
I think the OP should be arranged into categories by percent (low/mid/high) for easier reading. Also, let's be careful about ~0%, as most attacks perfect combo around there. OP might get a bit cluttered.
Sounds like a good suggestion, might do it later
 

BlastHappyNinja

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Fsmash is a really interesting move. Sometimes I combo bair to Fsmash at low percents and a lot of the times I combo fsmash into bouncing fish at really low percents.. I need to lab this a bit
I like to use Ftilt to Fsmash in most cases. Definitely worth doing some labwork on, seeing as how it could possibly be used for some decent mixups.
 

Torterra

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First I'd like to say thank you very much for this thread, it really helped, but I'd like to add a couple things.
There's one kill setup I like using recently. If you continue to do fthrow>fair eventually they'll start air dodging, it isn't exactly a true combo, but what I've been able to do in the past is fthrow then wait for the air dodge, then dash underneath them and kill with a tipper up smash.
One last kill setup I like is doing dthrow>uair and when they start air dodging, you could do down throw>up b. It's worked many times for me. These aren't true combos of course, because you have to read their airdodges, but they both have worked for me before.
 

EnhaloTricks

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I've gotten kills frome needles to running usmash at ~100%. Not true, but if they air dodge you can charge and get it, if they don't do anything the needles pops em up juuust enough that you can sweetspot the usmash. You can do the same with ftilt at lower percents.

I've also started doing dthrow -> up b if i can read the air dodge correctly.

(Dtilt -> ftilt)x100 -> fair links really well at around 10-20% and is a good option to carry people across the stage without giving up jumps, then you can finish with uairs or more fairs off stage.

Dthrow -> fair fastfall to ground hold shield for the punish then regrab works at 0% really well. Not true by any means, but if they try and punish it racks up around 30-40%.

Dthrow -> utilt can also lead to a regrab if you're patient with it at low percents. It miiight be true on fast fallers at 0%, but that's risky and may make you give up position. I need to play with it more.

Dthrow -> utilt can also lead to a jab lock at low percents if there is a platform above and they don't tech it. Same with ftilt -> utilt (there's a jab lock video for Sheik around that on youtube).

Sorry for all the not true combos haha. But these are things I tend to play with.
 

ArikadoSD

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Dthrow -> utilt can also lead to a regrab if you're patient with it at low percents. It miiight be true on fast fallers at 0%, but that's risky and may make you give up position. I need to play with it more.
Tested this on Fox in training mode. Dthrow true combos to the first hit of utilt but not the 2nd one, however the 2nd one still hits, and I think from there it confirms into a grab. Worked around 2 or 3 times, but I believe it's entirely DI dependent from what I've seen and can easily be avoided if people DI away from Sheik (as they normally should/would) so yeah.

It also didn't work on Greninja so it literally only works on Fox.
 

WondrousMoose

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Auto-canceling and Perfect Pivots open up a whole new world of possibilities. I landed an AC'd Nair and Fair into Ftilt earlier today, and I'm sure it's possible with other moves, such as smashes.
 

pokio55

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Wow this thread died lmao

Anyway, I'm going to start back up the conversation with combos for B-Throw! Not the most ideal throw but still useful. The only true combo that I know off that top of my head is B-Throw -> Bouncing Fish, I believe the percents go from mid - somewhat high percents. Most of the time the opponent must be DI-ing in for this to work.
Any other stuff that Back throw combos into?
 

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At very high percents, and if DI'd incorrectly, backthrow can lead to a 50/50 with fair (air dodge/jump).
 

ArikadoSD

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Put this on hold for a while in anticipation of the patch but now it's gone and Sheik's combos remain intact. I'll start updating this soon, because for now I should try to study for an exam I'm having soon lol.
 
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MiloniVanili

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one thing i noticed while watching zero at smash con is that he was consistently getting f throw into bf at much higher percents than i am able to without the other player being able to air dodge out, is there some trick to it or is it not a true combo at these percents and for some reason players like esam just dont air dodge it when they get f thrown at like 30-50?
 

ArikadoSD

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What ShinRamen said. Fthrow > BF works until surprisingly high percents assuming no rage.
 

Vici

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One thing that I think needs more experimentation is fast fall fall uair combos at low percent that lead into other guaranteed follow ups. Seems like a lot of people will do them sometime, but it never looks like it's intentional. It just sort of happens and sometimes they miss the guaranteed follow ups.
 

ArikadoSD

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One thing that I think needs more experimentation is fast fall fall uair combos at low percent that lead into other guaranteed follow ups. Seems like a lot of people will do them sometime, but it never looks like it's intentional. It just sort of happens and sometimes they miss the guaranteed follow ups.
The problem with that is they're not guaranteed. Good mixups yes, but they can roll away, dodge, or do any early frame attack to interrupt.

Still, I'll include it in the section I'm planning for the future which is for non-guaranteed setups that are good.
 
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Vici

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The problem with that is they're not guaranteed. Good mixups yes, but they can roll away, dodge, or do any early frame attack to interrupt.

Still, I'll include it in the section I'm planning for the future which is for non-guaranteed setups that are good.
Are you sure they're not guaranteed? Izaw's chain grab video definitely makes it look like you can get several guaranteed followups out of a fast fall uair.
 

ArikadoSD

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Are you sure they're not guaranteed? Izaw's chain grab video definitely makes it look like you can get several guaranteed followups out of a fast fall uair.
Yes, i'm sure it's not guaranteed. It's not even worth it, considering fair strings can potentially net more damage and give stage positioning. Izaw's video is very outdated.
 

Vici

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Yes, i'm sure it's not guaranteed. It's not even worth it, considering fair strings can potentially net more damage and give stage positioning. Izaw's video is very outdated.
I know his video is outdated and there have patches since then, but I have seen other players use it as well. The first combo string zero does against fow in the grand finals of dvda #9 implements a fast fall uair to extend his combo. And Mr. R claims that is has guaranteed follow ups. As of right now there seems to be not much information or implementation of fast falling uairs, but I believe that more experimentation of it could lead to more optimal combos.
 

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Maybe add Falling Uair to grab? It's kinda trashy now but it works and is good to know.
 
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