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Win Condition 4 Indies

Ramen King

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Only Creation
So I realized that indies have a pretty big advantage against other factions. Their win condition isn't known. Both town and mafia have known win conditions. But an indies can be anything. Town could never know what they are looking for which is completely uh silly.

Mod: "Hey guys you gotta find this guy!"
Town: "What guy?"
Mod: "This guy. Just find him. You know that one you gotta find!"
Town: "Ok then?"

You can't determine someone's intentions if you don't even know the possible intentions there are, you know?

So I'm thinking indy win conditions should start to be known. In other words, if there is an indy in the game, what kind of indy (SK/Warlock/Marker/etc) should be given from the start.

Marker is one of my main irritations. It's too easy to win with based on observing Touhou, Gova's game, and GS3#2. Especially when they have a bulletproof. It's really not that difficult to predict who will remain alive. And as the numbers dwindle, it becomes the ever more easy. All a bp marker has to do is play extremely protown and use their influence to dissuade lynches. They don't even have to necessarily push certain people, just dissuade from others. With a town/mafia that doesn't even know this role is in the game, they will almost always get screwed over in the end. Don't like it. At least with the win condition being know, they can know what to look for. Who is defending who? Why does he want to keep him alive? etc.

So yeah.
 

Evil Eye

Selling the Lie
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2001
Messages
14,439
Location
Madison Avenue
It's part of the puzzle.

They also have the inherent disadvantage of being completely alone. In almost all scenarios, their death spells doom for the wincon.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Disagree. Indies shouldn't be nerfed (lol) just because it could be easier for them to win without them being known as being in the game, it's very hard to win by yourself and survive both night kills from scum AND townies.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Disagree with having indy's wincon's being universal/known. They have the biggest disadvantage with being alone and also scum is scum. You can find players that are looking out for their own.

Like there is little I can agree to this thing with indy.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
You really can't be like that Zen if someone disagrees with the logic you presented.

:/
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
lol Zen indies have their own tells like any other alignment you seriously can't tell me that this is needed
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,799
Location
Land of Nether
The thing is that you can't go looking for the intention of someone when you have no idea what they have to accomplish.

Indies have a lot of freedom.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Survival.

That's a pretty big win condition. Townies can win if they die, Scum can win if they die. Indies have to live until endgame, and literally have to out-play every single other player in the game, this would be borderline unfair.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Exactly, finding indies are not hard at all to find once you know there is an indy in the game. Either as mafia or town.

Plus they are fundamentally nerfed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than town/mafia.
 

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
4,965
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그루그 화산
indies always gotta keep themselves alive though. no-one to bus etc.

if you're going to put a marker or similar (arsonist springs to mind) in a setup I think you should make it known somehow, though; putting a firefighter or an fbi agent is one way, having whoever's been marked know they've been marked etc.

i mean i'm basically just saying game should be balanced; no-one likes wtf indie wins.


other thing I should say;
not a fan of survivor-style indies who win along with another faction.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,799
Location
Land of Nether
Obviously I disagree. Not everyone can pull a lynch on you, some indies can kill, scum can kill et cetera.


I don't give a **** when Ruy sees me as indy, but if Ryker does, consider me scared.
 

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
1,274
Location
Austin, TX
NNID
Takicodos
Nah, this couldn't be discussed there. This thread is of bigotry and ignorance where anyone who disagrees with the OP is wrong, obviously.

:gova:
 

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
4,965
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그루그 화산
hahahahahahah

i was just trying to find the words for that

maybe we need a 'I HA3V AN OPINION N MAFIAZ#' thread


OR

we just settle all matters by popular vote

for great justice
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Honestly, I think the issue more is some indy roles being completely ridiculous. An SK is at a bad enough disadvantage already without telling people "HEY, THERE'S A SERIAL KILLER OUT THERE GUYS". It's more about there being idiotic indy roles in some setups. I mean, how hard is it for a Jester to win? No, the problem with indy win conditions is that half of these conditions let them win with another faction, letting them drift by with minimal content to avoid lynch (this behavior making them an unlikely NK) until town/mafia does their work for them.

Also Vote: Zen for being dumb or scum.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Hey hey now. let's not start pointing fingers at each other just because of disagreements.
 

Handorin

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
6,012
It's part of the puzzle.

They also have the inherent disadvantage of being completely alone. In almost all scenarios, their death spells doom for the wincon.
Remember that one game you made where I had to acquire the most votes without ever being lynched?

Yea, that was hard. Especially since I'm always mafia and scummy so people want to lynch me anyways... >_>
 
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