Will you buy Smash for Switch without ongoing balance patches?

[Sleek Media]

[Delete Account]

 

[Das Koopa]

Characters having good tools does not equal jank.

 

[Sleek Media]

Characters having good tools does not equal jank.

If something like bat within leading to kills at 10% doesn't get you salty, you're a spectator, not a player.

 

[Das Koopa]

I don't think I've ever actually seen that happen recently in tournament sets. Closest I can think of is a match between Tyrant and JK(?) where he was Uair chaining JK to the side, Bats Within activated, and JK reversed it into a KO. Most kills I see perceived as jank are almost always due to Witch Time.

Even then, Bayonetta is not a dominant character and the other characters you listed don't really have any jank. Diddy, Sheik, Cloud, and Mewtwo just have exceptionally good toolkits. But even then, they aren't dominant.

 

[Sleek Media]

[Delete Account]

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't have access to it right now, but I can look for that example later on. Happened at a recent VA tournament. Someone vs Remzi. I'll edit this post when I find it. It's not like it's an uncommon occurrence for her F1 airdodge to function as a lethal counter anyway. Everybody has seen it happen and everyone is sick of it. It's not hype. It's not skill. It's just dumb.

As for the others having no jank...you smoking? Half of them don't have a disadvantage state. All except Cloud basically recover for free. Cloud himself gets a pseudo KO punch that doubles as a pseudo speed monado several times per stock. The bulk of the cast can't even touch Shiek. Call it overturned tools or whatever you want, but you know I'm right. These characters are unbalanced and not fun to play against. If you disagree, and want to see the meta focus increasingly on those characters, then fine. Say so. That's what the topic is about. Let's try to stay on topic instead of arguing semantics.

Fun is subjective, I find all of those characters fine to play against. This isn't like Melee where playing against Fox or Falco is mostly unfun for me.

I agree characters can be overtuned, and is the case in smash 4. It's not broken or overpowered.

They might tinker with balance with a switch port and also add new content, who knows we'll need to wait and see if we speculate this. Otherwise this thread mostly comes off to me as complaining about some of the better characters in the game, which hasn't been a major issue for me tbh.

If I think about the last tournament I went to, I lost to a Pikachu in pools, then on day 2 I lost to a Ryu and then a Kirby.

So I can't side with this too much.

 

[Samuelwisebaggins]

If they buff the low tiers I'll get it.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I don't have access to it right now, but I can look for that example later on. Happened at a recent VA tournament. Someone vs Remzi. I'll edit this post when I find it. It's not like it's an uncommon occurrence for her F1 airdodge to function as a lethal counter anyway. Everybody has seen it happen and everyone is sick of it. It's not hype. It's not skill. It's just dumb.

As for the others having no jank...you smoking? Half of them don't have a disadvantage state. All except Cloud basically recover for free. Cloud himself gets a pseudo KO punch that doubles as a pseudo speed monado several times per stock. The bulk of the cast can't even touch Shiek. Call it overturned tools or whatever you want, but you know I'm right. These characters are unbalanced and not fun to play against. If you disagree, and want to see the meta focus increasingly on those characters, then fine. Say so. That's what the topic is about. Let's try to stay on topic instead of arguing semantics.

The top is pretty fine for the most part. Bayo needs hitboxes size reduction so we can challenge her recovery, but other than that, can't think of anything else.

What we really need to pay attention to is the garbage characters at the bottom like D3, Ganon, DHD, BowJow, Puff, Zelda, Roy, PAC-man, etc..

 

[DungeonMaster]

Nintendo if you're listening:
#1 FIX THE DAMN NETCODE. GGPO works an order of magnitude BETTER than for-glory 1v1 and it's 10 years old. I'm seriously exhausted with my f-air, b-air and d-air turning into a n-air randomly. I c-stick my aerials so it's not even possible to make a n-air, only lag can magically do that. I'm tired of mashing a button like a maniac during a grab-release and having a frame 9 move beat my frame 6. The lag is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE. Pair up people with GOOD connections, PLEASE. This isn't too hard to do. It really isn't.
#2 BALANCE the tiers. NERF the high tiers and buff the low. Statistics are huge now, take even a passing glance. I'm tired of having a 60 frame homing missile that doesn't home, easily cut out of the air, not safe on hit let alone block. This sort of egregious "really terrible move" does not need to happen. The disparity is absurd between say Samus' homing missile and a cannot be reflected - can kill - instantly cancelable multi hit wide area bullet climax. It's not art, it's not style, it's dumb.

That's it, that's all. Everything else is gravy. Without those 2, I won't buy. Sorry, my frustration with the online portion will drive me away.

 

[SaltyKracka]

If they put the game into such a state that you couldn't really argue it required ongoing rebalancing, I could see myself doing so.

Otherwise...well, I just don't think there'd be any point in my buying what is essentially the same product once again.

 

[Ralugi]

I won't buy the next Smash. Taking the time to refine Smash 4 is much better than having a bunch of whiny fanboys screaming about their incompetence and asking for Goku in smash. I would rather stay in a game that is finally done with development. Metagames grow better in that environment.

 

[Nah]

There's a number of changes that they could make to the online mode that would make me consider buying it.

Other than that maybe some hitbox changes so we don't have stupid **** like Diddy Fair or Falcon Fsmash.

Assuming I'd be feeling like dropping a few hundred bucks anyway

oh and some things like removing mac's super armor and making it so you can't punch Elthunder out of the air, it's a ****ing ball of lightning you don't just swat it out the air with your hands

 

[wizrad]

I agree with changing Mewtwo and Bayonetta. Mewtwo has an infinite and Bayonetta just sucks the happiness out of the game for me. Playing against her and watching her is just terribly boring. You have to be so unnecessarily careful because she can punish you twice and kill you with a few simple reads. Buffing low tiers is also something I would very much like, especially for characters who aren't even good in free for alls, like Jigglypuff and Doc.

Would I buy it? Yeah, probably. I'll end up getting the Switch anyways, and the new version is likely to have something that'll get the competitive community (unless Nintendo is really stupid and doesn't want the guaranteed sales), so I have no real reason not to.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Nintendo if you're listening:
#1 FIX THE DAMN NETCODE. GGPO works an order of magnitude BETTER than for-glory 1v1 and it's 10 years old. I'm seriously exhausted with my f-air, b-air and d-air turning into a n-air randomly. I c-stick my aerials so it's not even possible to make a n-air, only lag can magically do that. I'm tired of mashing a button like a maniac during a grab-release and having a frame 9 move beat my frame 6. The lag is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE. Pair up people with GOOD connections, PLEASE. This isn't too hard to do. It really isn't.
#2 BALANCE the tiers. NERF the tippy top tiers (slightly) and buff the low (immensely). Statistics are huge now, take even a passing glance. I'm tired of having a 60 frame homing missile that doesn't home, easily cut out of the air, not safe on hit let alone block. This sort of egregious "really terrible move" does not need to happen. The disparity is absurd between say Samus' homing missile and a cannot be reflected - can kill - instantly cancelable multi hit wide area bullet climax. It's not art, it's not style, it's dumb.

That's it, that's all. Everything else is gravy. Without those 2, I won't buy. Sorry, my frustration with the online portion will drive me away.

Fixed for clarity

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I wouldn't be able to fit a new system in my room....I also can't simply say 'whelp if it's backwards compatible i'll do it' since I have nintendo games downloaded on my system without SD cards to save them....not sure if I should sell one of my systems or what...

 

[TTTTTsd]

Fun fact: THis game's online isn't even the problem.

It's the offline portion still having 6f of input lag. Granted Smash could definitely have rollback but that wouldn't work well with 4 players tbh, we all know this. But if you want to know what makes the online crap, it's the fact that you already start with 6f of input lag when you play offline~

 

[Sleek Media]

[Delete Account]

 

[TTTTTsd]

Are you talking about the input buffer?

No, Smash 4 has 6f of input lag. It's been researched extensively, it spans across all wireless and wired controllers, even the GC one.

The game, by default, has 6f of input lag. Most fighting games have 2-3f less (4f of input lag is the standard for most competitive fighters).

It's a LARGE PART of why online feels like crap. Imagine if they shaved 2f of input lag off the game in its entirity, the online experience would greatly improve without any netcode changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nT2VOLwrqk for reference

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Fun fact: THis game's online isn't even the problem.

It's the offline portion still having 6f of input lag. Granted Smash could definitely have rollback but that wouldn't work well with 4 players tbh, we all know this. But if you want to know what makes the online crap, it's the fact that you already start with 6f of input lag when you play offline~

the SFV syndrome

 

[TTTTTsd]

the SFV syndrome

SFV's other problem is that its actual rollback netcode is **** which just compounds the issue LOOL

 

[Sleek Media]

[Delete Account]

 

[TTTTTsd]

So how does input buffering play into this? I don't see why they would introduce so much extra lag. This also makes Bayo's F1 bat within basically amount to a 11% advantage in reaction speed (283ms vs 316ms).

Buffering and input lag are independent, basically. You wouldn't have to change the buffer at all, which is great. 10f buffer is nice (although it kinda sucks online I can cut my losses and admit it's good for a lot) and lends itself to a lot of option select-y stuff that I wish more people would use in this game.

The extra lag I imagine was introduced to combat the advantage wired controllers usually have vs. wireless, as all controllers have 6f of input lag in this game in particular. Usually, in most scenarios, wired controllers have less, but they may have artificially increased it to even the playing field, so to speak. My qualms with this game are not with its balance but with its cap on reaction times, to speak bluntly. A lot of the less good characters would be substantially better if they were rewarded more for reacting but 6f can get in the way.

 

[Zerp]

Personally, if they don't change the balance for old characters at all then it really depends on whether or not they add new characters, if they do it's practically a instant buy no matter what, but if they don't then maybe not. I'd be able to practice on the Wii U instead if they don't add any new legal stages, and if there's little to no extra content and no balance changes there isn't really much incentive for me to put down 60/50 monies.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Sheik could use a good pounding with the nerf hammer, but Mewtwo is fine the way he is. If anything he could be buffed a little bit.

Frankly, I don't care what they do with anybody else so long as they buff the lesser characters. If they don't at least do that then I'm definitely not buying.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Character balance can always seek improvement. Further buffing under-powered and nerfing over-powered characters would be nice, but I could care less about the Switch port if that's all it has to offer. Not like I'll be switching to re tuned characters anyways. Improved online could be a different story though.

What would sold me is if the port features Adventure Mode / SSE kind of mode or more variety to online (such as online co-op multi man, online record in mini-games). Not like I'll expect the port to have that anyways.

 

[McDeathstrider]

I'd buy it either way, but I feel some characters like or could use a buff if they do make changes, maybe too.
As for nerfs, Bat Within needs a few less frames to work, but other than that, I don't think the game needs anything else.

In all honesty, i hope they just make a new smash game for the switch, just not with the gap we had between Brawl and 4.

 

[Crystanium]

I just want my Samus buffed.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

IIRC, Smash for the Switch is nothing more than a rumor and I don't believe it until it's true. But if they will develop Smash for Switch, I'll be ready to buy it. Hmph, I'll be ready for balance patches.

 

[The_World]

I'd buy it regardless of changes, but I would be peeved if there weren't ANY improvements. Online definitely needs to improve. Hopefully they let people play wireless local multiplayer between different Switches (like 3DS).

Also adding a few buffs/nerfs would be nice as well. One last balance patch would be nice as well, especially if Nintendo is trying to make Smash 4 last a while. With 60(ish) characters I doubt they would add anyone else, but having one or two more balance patches that really bring up some of the low tier characters, iron out some of the flaws with mid tier characters and make super minute nerfs to top tier characters. Seeing better character diversity is always a plus for a game's longevity.

Personally, I just want them to buff to be closer to what he was at least somewhat, because fighting and is a real pain sometimes.

 

[P-J]

I personally hope they don't do any updates because then my $300 setup will be rendered obsolete and the community could get split up again. If they do updates like patches and characters, it should be for both systems. Smash 4 Wii U is too young to get brushed under the table by Switch in my opinion. Even if they are technically the same game.

Pretty pessimistic and selfish, but I think I'm not alone on these sentiments.

 

[Funbot28]

If they include Ice Climbers (which they have no excuse not to at this point since we are not dealing with 3DS hardware limitations), I will definitely buy the game. I wonder how they would fair in Smash 4 tho since no more Chain Grabs and them likely not giving them the ability to perform wobbling combos

#FreeIceClimbers

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

What would sell me on a Swich version of Smash:

1. Better classic mode like the 3DS, Melee, or Brawl.
2. Co-op classic and adventure mode with online functionality.
3. Character balance.
4. Quicker inputs and better online. Perhaps 5-8 player games online too.
5. Official Nintendo ladders. With stock matches.
6. More tournament legal stages.
7. Being able to disable stage hazards.
8. Better menu format.
9. Online Smash Run.
10. Being able to save Vs. player settings and change what is your default.