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Will some characters dominate in tornements for brawl?

Brandenpunk1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
42
Great argument, will a few characters dominate the tournaments like they did in melee (Fox, Falco, Marth, shiek) Or will there be a wide range of characters winning tournament's?
 

iron blade

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
862
Location
Brawling
Hopefully every character will be balanced and can win tournaments. This is way too early to discuss tiers though.
 

Sideem Slingh

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
293
Location
Manhattan, KS
Doubt it. There'll probably be a certain 3 that are used way too much like last time. Then again, since the game is less oriented on technical skills and more on mindgames, I'd say that it has a much better chance of being balanced.

Overall analysis: Too early to guess.
 

OrlanduEX

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
1,029
I think that Brawl is more balanced than Melee so there will be MORE characters used at a high level, but it is already evident that some characters will prove better than others.

There has never been a perfectly balanced fighting game. Even the most competitive fighting games like Tekken, Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter have considerable imbalance between characters. As long as the characters are diverse and plentiful, imbalance will rear it's head, And the Brawl roster is both diverse and large with 39 MOSTLY unique movesets.

Thus, tiers will exist and a group of characters will dominate. I don't think we need to play the game for that long to realize this.
 

shadydentist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
La Jolla, CA
It should be noted that Melee already had a very high number of competitive characters, relative to other fighting games.

In contrast, about 7 out of 64 characters were useful in MvCII
 

Losnar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
384
Location
Philly
there were 56 characters in MvC2.

Brawl looks to have evened the field a little since the crappy overpowered characters of melee.
 

Zjiin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
4,005
Location
Brazil, SouThSidE!
There will always be tiers, and eventually the ones of this game will show up. I'ts impossible to balance a game completely.
 

Firestorm88

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
1,249
Location
Vancouver, BC
Yes. Some characters will dominate. Hopefully we see around 10? That'd be a great number, hopefully not too high to aim for. Although 1/4 of the roster does seem a bit much!
 

Moose Of Woe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
52
I seriously doubt there will be as large a gap in Brawl between the innately good and those who are lackluster. (Compared to SB64/Melee)

Sans Yoshi and possibly Olimar. Who knows? Maybe the potential is there to be half decent. No DJC and Olimar's recovery will make it an uphill battle, though.


Back to topic, with the lack of L-Canceling, wavedashing, and "floatier" characters, the fast ones can no longer hit a character once, especially heavy ones, and endlessly combo them off the stage without fear of a counter-attack. Shuffl made already good characters insane, and already bad-mediocre characters not much better. The results speak for themselves.

Now that pretty much every character has SOME lag time with MOST of their moves and no SHUFFLING around it, a select group won't be able to spam/string non-stop attacks. Since this huge advantage over the rest of the cast is gone, and unless some unknown lag-reducing technique is discovered, the game looks to be one of the more balanced multiplayer ones I've seen in a long while. (Not perfect)
 

sprittles

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
141
Location
Behind you
Wrong

Donkey Kong himself got fed up with all the crap he got from players, he beat the **** out of the tier list and is now gonna **** anyone up who gets in his way!

But he wont harm yoshi, Dk likes yoshi....THE OTHER's WILL DIE!
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Back to topic, with the lack of L-Canceling, wavedashing, and "floatier" characters, the fast ones can no longer hit a character once, especially heavy ones, and endlessly combo them off the stage without fear of a counter-attack. Shuffl made already good characters insane, and already bad-mediocre characters not much better. The results speak for themselves.
Gannondorf and Captain Falcon disagree with you.

It's also way too early to be talking about character balance. The game isn't even out yet and people are talking about who they think the best character will be *coughmarthlolcough*:laugh:
 

pirkid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
1,254
Location
¿¡ Canada ¿¡
There will always be tiers, but it looks like tiers will be a lot less spaced out in Brawl. Here's to using DK on Tourneys.
 

vydran212

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
240
Location
Washington D.C.
I'm gonna take the less traveled route and actually come up with an answer based on what I've seen in videos and tournaments on youtube thus far. Yeah yeah, "its too early to tell!!" and "the game's more balanced now!!", but where's the fun in that? The point of a forum is to debate possibilities, and with this in mind, I present to you my list of possible dominating characters in tourneys:

FOX/FALCO/SHEIK/MARTH
As long as they're still in the game and remain relatively unchanged, they'll still dominate the tournaments. The people who used them in melee tourneys can only get better.

WOLF
In my opinion the best out of the three space animals. Factor out the horrible recovery and you have a great character, capable of the attacking speed and combo goodness of Fox and the power of Captain Falcon.

METAKNIGHT
Forget that he has little to no killing moves. He's a combo master, and the faster users who loved being Fox/Falco/etc. will find great ways to whittle down their opponents with him. He's also got an incredible recovery.

ZERO SUIT SAMUS
Expect heavy stun spammers and whip crackers. Zamus is relatively fast and has a lot of combo potential and the ability to stun, making her very appealing to users.
 

retro gamer 6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
382
Location
in o-town, florida
hopefully we'll see a bunch of variety of characters in tournaments unlike the cheap, broken characters in melee like fox, falco, and marth. kirby for 1st tier! lol.
 

Takeshi245

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
2,051
Location
Ansonia, CT
Yes, but now more characters will dominate in Brawl tournaments because Brawl's more balanced. It makes sense.
 

RedMage8BT

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
1,994
Location
Princess Peach's Castle
The larger the middle tier, the more balanced the game. It's like economics, the larger the middle class, the better the economy. In an ideal game, there'd be three tiers, with maybe 21 in the middle tier, 10 in high, and 8 in low. With only three tiers, there wouldn't be as large a gap between them, the difference between the best character and the worst character would be like comparing Sheik and Pikachu, rather than Fox and Mewtwo.
 

Dynamism

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,769
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I'll be semi-"dead" for a while after Fe
I'm gonna take the less traveled route and actually come up with an answer based on what I've seen in videos and tournaments on youtube thus far. Yeah yeah, "its too early to tell!!" and "the game's more balanced now!!", but where's the fun in that? The point of a forum is to debate possibilities, and with this in mind, I present to you my list of possible dominating characters in tourneys:

FOX/FALCO/SHEIK/MARTH
As long as they're still in the game and remain relatively unchanged, they'll still dominate the tournaments. The people who used them in melee tourneys can only get better.

WOLF
In my opinion the best out of the three space animals. Factor out the horrible recovery and you have a great character, capable of the attacking speed and combo goodness of Fox and the power of Captain Falcon.

METAKNIGHT
Forget that he has little to no killing moves. He's a combo master, and the faster users who loved being Fox/Falco/etc. will find great ways to whittle down their opponents with him. He's also got an incredible recovery.

ZERO SUIT SAMUS
Expect heavy stun spammers and whip crackers. Zamus is relatively fast and has a lot of combo potential and the ability to stun, making her very appealing to users.
Alright, this isn't melee lol. Seriously though, the fast characters will have their moments but speed isn't everything. If MK, Zamus and Wolf were in melee, this could be the case.
But come on! lol

The larger the middle tier, the more balanced the game. It's like economics, the larger the middle class, the better the economy. In an ideal game, there'd be three tiers, with maybe 21 in the middle tier, 10 in high, and 8 in low. With only three tiers, there wouldn't be as large a gap between them, the difference between the best character and the worst character would be like comparing Sheik and Pikachu, rather than Fox and Mewtwo.
Then that's possible with melee!
High: Marth, Fox, Falco, Sheik, Peach, Falcon, ICs, Jiggs
Mid: Samus, Mario, Doc, Ganon, Link, YLink, Luigi, DK, Pika, Roy
Low: Zelda, G&W, Yoshi, Ness, Bowser, Pichu, Mewtwo, Kirby

And really the tier list is very much along these lines because it is so mismatched. You take Marth out of the picture and anyone he absolutely destroys along with everyone that counters Fox, Falco and Sheik will move up. The tiers list should be a grid (which would be the best way at least to decide it) but meh.

TiErS DoN ExIsT! lol

I second this post
I second THIS post...
Now I'm 4thing MYSELF lol
omg I'm awesome!!!

I seriously doubt there will be as large a gap in Brawl between the innately good and those who are lackluster. (Compared to SB64/Melee)

Sans Yoshi and possibly Olimar. Who knows? Maybe the potential is there to be half decent. No DJC and Olimar's recovery will make it an uphill battle, though.

Um...Yoshis lack of DJC gives him the ability to chase off the stage, combo with less limits and he hasn't lost much of the pausing for a moment factor that made it effective. He'll do just fine, better than fine really. And Olimar still has a recovery that can almost match Bowsers lol But Olimar can rack up damage like ten of the cute giants

Back to topic, with the lack of L-Canceling, wavedashing, and "floatier" characters, the fast ones can no longer hit a character once, especially heavy ones, and endlessly combo them off the stage without fear of a counter-attack. Shuffl made already good characters insane, and already bad-mediocre characters not much better. The results speak for themselves.

Now that pretty much every character has SOME lag time with MOST of their moves and no SHUFFLING around it, a select group won't be able to spam/string non-stop attacks. Since this huge advantage over the rest of the cast is gone, and unless some unknown lag-reducing technique is discovered, the game looks to be one of the more balanced multiplayer ones I've seen in a long while. (Not perfect)
Yeah I agree that Brawl will be better. Hopefully perfect ;) , and melee was a fluke. But Brawl being a fluke probably won't be necessary because of what you pointed out.

um...

Random is the best character...
It's all characters combined so what's there to not understand?
 

marthmaster13

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Smithfield, Rhode Island
i agree that it's too early but i think that there will definately be more defining qualities to the individual characters making them all good in their own way as opposed to melee where most of the characters played essentially the same except different speed, power, ect. i think, or would like to think, that in brawl all characters have a relatively equal chance of winning
 

shadydentist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
La Jolla, CA
Also for the record, shffling improved slow characters more than fast characters. Marth misses an l-cancel on his fair? Big deal. If bowser misses ANY l-cancels... he gets combo'd to death.
 

Ogre_Deity_Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,445
Location
Central New York
Right now it's pretty much even.

Until some guy with WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much free time and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much dedication creates another waveshine combo then everyone and their brother will pick that character.

I weep for balance.
 
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