Will smash 4 really have a competitive scene?

[Spazzy]

After watching Big House 4 I wonder if Smash 4 will actually last. Big house 4 had one of the most intense final 8s I've ever watched and I'm wondering, will the competitive scene of smash 4 ever live up to it? Will smash 4 truly be a competitive smash for a while or will it die out like brawl did? I'm not really trying to bash on it, it is a great fun game but there are very easy cheap ways to win such as Little Mac or projectile spamming since all maps are mainly FD. Is Smash 4 competitive scene just forced?

 

[NefariousShyGuy]

If Brawl had a competitive scene, then so can Smash 4.

Melee loyalists won't think much of Smash 4, but not everyone in this community think Melee is the only way to go. As long as there are people out there who care about Smash 4 then we will have people supporting the game in tournaments.

 

[tttt]

Yes. It will.

 

[Spazzy]

If Brawl had a competitive scene, then so can Smash 4.

Melee loyalists won't think much of Smash 4, but not everyone in this community think Melee is the only way to go. As long as there are people out there who care about Smash 4 then we will have people supporting the game in tournaments.

There will be a scene yes but will it be entertaining enough for it to live? In Smash 4 it is very difficult to kill someone at even 150% and if people are bored then it won't live. I'm not saying melee is the only game but I just don't think smash 4 will cut it

 

[Spirst]

I think it's a little too early still to have any definitive answer. Everyone is still trying out their characters and trying to develop sound strategies and tactics. Give the metagame some more time to develop so we can gauge the competitive viability of the game. I do think it's much better than Brawl all around though and if that had a scene, then this will too. Now, will it live? Who knows yet. Hasn't even been a week since the international release.

 

[SevenYearItch]

This will be an online scene. I don't expect a packed out Big House with 50K viewers like last night, but this is very viable and fun to run as an online game and stream it that way. Then with Wii U coming out you'll have both online and a great side tourny kinda how PM acts now

 

[OFY]

Of course it will. It's a new smash game and TO's running tournaments will want to feature since it'll gain a huge crowd being a new game. I suspect it will be similar to brawls tournament life, it might end up lasting a lot longer since there's a more of a competitive aspect that the developers put into this game.

 

[Shen_Jehuty]

Pretty sure it will. the Melee purists will probably stick their nose up at sm4sh being played competitively, but as others have said, if Brawl can have a competitive scene, sm4sh most certainly can.

 

[NefariousShyGuy]

There will be a scene yes but will it be entertaining enough for it to live? In Smash 4 it is very difficult to kill someone at even 150% and if people are bored then it won't live. I'm not saying melee is the only game but I just don't think smash 4 will cut it

I really think Smash 4 and Melee are two different games entirely. If people play Smash 4 like they would play Melee or even Brawl, they're not going to get very far. If I want to kill someone under 150%, I would be smart about it and not just fire smash attacks again and again expecting to kill someone. This is just me, but I normally kill opponents by doing meteor smashes, firing smash attacks at the edge of the stage, or simply using my up smash to send them in the sky (which kills enemies A LOT faster btw). And if this really does become a problem, Nintendo is free to patch this in future updates.

Anyway, I think Smash 4 is an exciting game to watch, but for different reasons from Melee. Melee gets all the hype because it's very fast paced with techs and all that, but Smash 4 will probably get liked because there is more focus in offense/defense strategy now that all of those complicated mechanics are simplified. In Melee you need fast fingers and strategy, but in Smash 4 you just need strategy. Also, because of the slower pace this game has, the strategies players make in Smash 4 will be far more appreciated.

The reason why Brawl didn't get far in the competitive scene is not because it was slow or boring to watch, it's because of game breakers like Metaknight, no hitstun, and the lack of combos. It just wasn't well crafted for a fighting game.

Smash 4 on the other hand, got rid of all the problems Brawl had. Therefore, we definitely should expect a competitive scene. Will it have a competitive scene as big as Melee? Probably not, but keep in mind that Melee also gets support from fighting game enthusiasts who only care about Melee and not other installments of Smash.

I have nothing against Melee, I just get annoyed when people think it's the true Smash (I know that's not what you're saying though). Melee is not the game Sakurai intended, Smash 4 is. However, I will say that I really appreciate Melee for having a large and loyal fanbase. Although Melee is not Sakurai's game, it's definitely the Melee community's game. I strongly support Project M for this reason.

Sorry for typing so much, lol. I just wanted to express my opinion on this whole matter. I hope I'm not pushing my opinion though.

 

[SmashShard]

It probably will get a comp scene, but it will probably fade away even faster than Brawl's because right now Smash 4 is looking to be the most slow and defensive oriented game in the series.

 

[Shiliski]

I really think Smash 4 and Melee are two different games entirely. If people play Smash 4 like they would play Melee or even Brawl, they're not going to get very far. If I want to kill someone under 150%, I would be smart about it and not just fire smash attacks again and again expecting to kill someone. This is just me, but I normally kill opponents by doing meteor smashes, firing smash attacks at the edge of the stage, or simply using my up smash to send them in the sky (which kills enemies A LOT faster btw). And if this really does become a problem, Nintendo is free to patch this in future updates.

I just want to back this up by saying that my quickest wins come from either meteor smashes (or flat out gimping, though that's mostly accidental at my level) or by juggling players off the top of the screen with uair. Otherwise I'd have to rely upon smashes which aren't always easy to just land whenever you want to.

 

[gmBottles]

Smash 4 is fun, but that's really it. It is much too slow to be enjoyable to watch for a long period of time, so te comp scene probably won't last very long. But it will exist for a while.

 

[NefariousShyGuy]

I just want to back this up by saying that my quickest wins come from either meteor smashes (or flat out gimping, though that's mostly accidental at my level) or by juggling players off the top of the screen with uair. Otherwise I'd have to rely upon smashes which aren't always easy to just land whenever you want to.

Charging smash attacks instead of releasing them at the get go also does numbers.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

It probably will get a comp scene, but it will probably fade away even faster than Brawl's because right now Smash 4 is looking to be the most slow and defensive oriented game in the series.

Careful to not sound too ignorant...this isn't even close to true.

 

[25%Cotton]

people in this thread sound like they've only played the game for a single weekend.

heywait...

 

[Dsull]

why wouldnt it?
its better than Brawl and even Brawl had a mess of tournaments. And even as insane as Rosaluma and Little Mac can be, theyre NOWHERE as bad as Brawl MetaKnight, which far as i know is the only character to ever be banned from a tournament. Thats quite a feat lol.

(Little Mac is not op, im not whining about him hes actually pretty easy to counter but hes annoying as gak to deal with and most of my losses to him are frustration not his own doings)

 

[punkonjunk]

What is all this 150% stuff? While I routinely survive up to 120-150, I have had no trouble landing KOs on folks from 60-90 pretty easily with marth. this has all I've spent heavy time on, and my habitual pulling happens to work exactly best for vectoring information that I've read so far, which I'm thinking helps a lot but....
Find your KOs and wait for your opening to finish them. Only folks I've had hold up past 100 are real heavy folks.

I just discovered that marth's shield breaker gives you a ton of velocity if performed in the air and it has made recoveries just, so crazy stupid awesome.

 

[Dsull]

its primarily people wanting to just land a smash and KO from the stage. Bowser/Dedede/DK are the only ones that can easily pull that off at low %'s.
You dont even have to meteor, just slapping someone away when theyre trying to recover is enough to kill them most of the time. Though meteors are fun lol

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

Melee is overrated.
Brawl was OK.

But we can't judge Smash 4 yet.

 

[Mic_128]

people in this thread sound like they've only played the game for a single weekend.

heywait...

Pretty much this. It hasn't even been a full week. Advanced techs could be discovered and it could develop a great scene.

Alternatively, exploits could be found which would make the game broken as hell and unviable in the long run for competition.

It's week 1 still. Give it more time before worrying about long term viability.

 

[Juggleguy]

People underestimate the logistical difficulties that will be encountered with Smash 4 tournaments. The 3DS version will have connectivity issues depending on venue. The Wii U version will have equipment shortage issues due to the much higher ratio of equipment cost to incentive for bringing it.

I haven't seen too many people discuss the logistics, but that is just as important to the growth of a potential scene as the gameplay itself.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Buying a Wii was a pretty penny back in the day too.

 

[Lichi]

I'd say Smash 4 has the potential to be the next big thing regarding fighting games. It surely has a nice growing player base and should be quite entertaining to watch. But the current status of the online system and the 3DS not being the best tournament console are difficulties.
The Wii U might be the better choice simply cause it's easier for small local events to show the fights on the big screen.

At least I am excited and hope that we get a nice, active scene going and I want to participate in it.

 

[lijero13ss]

I feel like all the Melee lovers want to write off every single smash game that comes out b/c its not Melee.

Their completely different games, and its been many years since Melee came out. Its a whole new smash bros era. Melee lovers, please don't kill this game.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Yes it will; however, the competitive scene between the Wii U and 3DS will be different, since both have different controls and tweaks between Death Zones and Physics.

 

[MisterVisceral]

I'd say Smash 4 has the potential to be the next big thing regarding fighting games. It surely has a nice growing player base and should be quite entertaining to watch. But the current status of the online system and the 3DS not being the best tournament console are difficulties.

This reminds me of HeartGold/SoulSilver a bit. HGSS was wildly and unpredictably popular my freshman year of high school. The people who played those games as kids got an opportunity to play it again, and play it easily with friends without the cumbersome stresses of bringing along a link cable (also it wasn't DPP because those games were ****) After these games game out I saw more of my friends become interested in the competitive scene.

The Pokemon competitive scene is only growing as far as I can see.

Smash 4 is coming out around the time that people who played Smash 64 are reaching the age to have the freedom and resources to invest in this game competitively. They're bringing their friends into the community as well. I can see it representing a significant growth in the playerbase which will (hopefully) do nothing but wonders for the competitive scene.

Even if Smash 4 doesn't "improve" or "develop" the competitive scene (whatever that means to people), it will show longevity and possibly even outgrow the Melee community. I'm pretty excited for the potential this game has. I think Sakurai has finally nailed what he was going for: an accessible, competitive, enjoyable game.

 

[luigijerk]

I'm a melee lover, and I see that this is better than brawl in some ways, BUT...

There's basically no edge game in this. Even in brawl there's a lot of edguarding, but not in this game at all. Basically kills only occur in blast zones except for rare cases or player screw ups. Hit them of the stage, maybe throw something at them if your character can shoot, and wait for them to get back onto the stage. Lame, less competitive, but still competitive. One dimension of them game is gone, but it still has a lot of neutral game, spacing, and mind games.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I think Smash4 will be the end of Melee. <3
*flamewall*

 

[Terotrous]

Brawl had a competitive scene for quite a few years, so it's pretty safe to say that Smash 4 will too. Whether it will truly last a long time will depend on its balance and overall metagame.

I do have to say that I feel that both Rage and Vectoring are detrimental to the overall metagame and I really wish Sakurai hadn't included them (Rage in particular is a completely bonkers mechanic, Vectoring at least kind of makes "sense" as a DI replacement). Right now, playing the 3DS version makes me a little wary for the competitive future of the game, but you do have to remember that this is the 3DS version. Many movement options are hard to do consistently just because the 3DS controller is trash (and fragile trash, at that). When we have proper controllers and can SHFF and Pivot consistently it'll probably play like a very different game.

 

[ThaPhantom07]

I think Smash 4 will develop more of a competitive scene than vanilla Brawl but not as much as Melee or even Project M. Melee is always going to be the poster child of competitive Smash and a lot of people who are involved in that scene are not going to take to new Smash games unless they are similar to Melee. It may be stereotyping a bit but I think really hardcore Melee players turn their nose up at anything that isn't Melee. I think is the SSB4 scene is to take off it is going to need to be from a surge of new, talented players and not seasoned vets.

That said it is entirely too early to say one way or the other with any confidence. As the meta develops and we finally get the console version things will change over time.

 

[TypePositive]

I haven't had melee intense matches yet, but I've had much more fun in a week of having the game than brawl. I'm sure that once the metagame gets fleshed out a bit, this would be the most popular smash game to spectate. Seriously, the close games in this game get really intense due to it being harder to kill someone.

 

[shapular]

The Big House 4? Lol, you mean The Big House Fox? TBH4 proved that Melee is approaching 20XX, and even players like Armada and Hungrybox were losing to Foxes they wouldn't normally lose to. Armada even almost lost to Hax and Westballz. 5 of the top 8 at TBH4 were Foxes, and we're just going to see that increase over time. On the other hand, Smash 4 has actual character variety and is actually accessible for new players and is just a better game than Melee in general. I give Melee 3 years tops till it dies. Smash 4 will be bigger than Melee the whole time.

 

[elitex12]

I think smash 4 will definitely have a competitive scene. Melee and Project M are great and all, but melee is pretty old at this point. I think Project M and Smash 4 are the only options available. I'd say Smash 4 is more viable at times then Project M because Project M, while still a really really good mod for brawl, Nerfed and Buffed characters a bit to much. Meta-Knight is so Nerfed he might as well be useless, and Link is Buffed so much he is the pretty much better then everyone else. Keep in mind this is how I feel toward Project M, if you disagree, good for you. I just think Smash 4, whether it be the Wii U or 3DS version, is the next logical step forward. Of course this can change as we discover more and more about the games mechanics.

 

[Clemente]

I highly doubt it. So far it seems incredibly campy is the way to go, which isn't fun for some people. Camp+SD if necessary is the main strat

 

[gmBottles]

SD if necessary

Self-destruct if necessary? What?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Kinda got to be fun to play and watch. The camp crap is horrendous. Ssb4 may really take off but depends on the direction its meta takes.

It'll happen regardless the question is how much vigor will it have.

 

[Einyuri]

The game is a little campy as is, I agree. Though that could be due to both an under-developed meta plus having to play on a much more restricted control scheme (the 3ds) doesn't really help developing the meta much aside from camping.

I feel like we'll have to see where the Wii U version leads us. Having the extra control options (GC Controller, Wii/WiiU Pro, Game Pad) could suddenly flip things on it's ass.

You never know. Let's be hopeful though.

 

[Signia]

I feel like all the Melee lovers want to write off every single smash game that comes out b/c its not Melee.

Wow, never heard that one before. And totally true, too. Every possible criticism toward the game must just be unwillingness to change!

 

[Gawain]

There will be a scene yes but will it be entertaining enough for it to live? In Smash 4 it is very difficult to kill someone at even 150% and if people are bored then it won't live. I'm not saying melee is the only game but I just don't think smash 4 will cut it

That's not even remotely true. Falcon can kill pretty much everyone with his side b before that, and you can combo into the knee starting as low as 50 percent on average, which will almost always blastzone them. Maybe you just haven't figured out how to kill with your character.

 

[Naisora]

Careful to not sound too ignorant...this isn't even close to true.

It would be a lie to say this game doesn't encourage defense...what with all the safeness in moves.

The Big House 4? Lol, you mean The Big House Fox? TBH4 proved that Melee I give Melee 3 years tops till it dies.

Melee is 10+ years old and its still alive and strong. If it does die, it won't be anytime soon. (3 years is pretty soon imo)