Will Olimar see as little play in Ultimate as he did in sm4sh?

[bew]

He doesn't seem much different compared to smash 4 and with the addition of more characters he might be pushed out of the spotlight even more. He wasn't bad, just... weird.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Olimar is one of "those" fighters: Not too good, not bad.....just really annoying to play against. Like Little Mac. Word on the street is that he's a lot better now, but we'll have to see how he matches up this time.

I'm excited to see which underplayed fighters end up being used more.

 

[leejaybird]

Many people are saying that he is very good this time. Apparently his Pikmin recall grants him super armor like it did in the earlier games.

 

[Dig Dug]

Olimar actually got some huge improvements. Upsmash has so little lag now it can combo into itself as well as upair, whistle super armor starts frame 2 (up from frame 6), side b damage output's been increased, his pikmin aerials actually have normal priority now thank you Sakurai, among other things.

Even with all that, I can only see him getting a small boost in popularity. He has a very negative stigma attached to him on top of being hard to learn that will likely keep most people away. Rosalina was considered top tier for the entirety of Smash 4 yet her player base remained rather small due to similar reasons.

Not that I mind though! If Olimar got popular, everyone would be nonstop complaining about him.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I have a feeling Pikmin recall's better super armor may have a shot at gimping some bad recoveries, since fighters no longer pass through each other.

 

[Blue Banana]

I have a feeling Pikmin recall's better super armor may have a shot at gimping some bad recoveries, since fighters no longer pass through each other.

I think that's only true if both fighters on the ground.

 

[Bayopuff]

He did get some good buffs and I can see his player base getting bigger by a bit. Probably not a lot though, since as previously stated, he's very hard to learn. I'm actually pretty bad with him.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Olimar feels mostly buffed from Smash 4 (the adjustments to his grab feels like a godsend), but the changes to his down throw do worry me. Does anyone know if it's more combo-reliable if a Red Pikmin is in the lead?

 

[dakotaisgreat]

I can down throw into fair with a red pikmin or if the opponent is at really really low %s. It's much worse than in smash 4.

In my opinion Olimar definitely seems worse than in 4. He got buffed, but so did pretty much everyone else on the roster anyways. It is way too god damn hard to get stage control back if you lose in the neutral and Pikmin all having less HP hurts more than I've seen any other Olimar players admit, people just kind of gloss over that, but it seems like a big deal to me.

Look at how much better characters like Falco, Link (Any Link), and Ganondorf are than in the previous game, their usefulness skyrocketed while all we seem to have gotten is a different grab that isn't even strictly better as far as I can tell. Side B doing more damage is negated by pikmin dying faster. Not to mention this game is going to be full of swordies. Honestly considering dropping Olimar and I have mained him for the entire last 2 smash games, I hope some online resources come up soon enough to help me make the character work because it just feels like this game is way too fast for Olimar to be anything other than an annoyance.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

In my opinion Olimar definitely seems worse than in 4. He got buffed, but so did pretty much everyone else on the roster anyways. It is way too god damn hard to get stage control back if you lose in the neutral and Pikmin all having less HP hurts more than I've seen any other Olimar players admit, people just kind of gloss over that, but it seems like a big deal to me.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Pikmin die way faster than they used to, it's not enough of a deterrent to make me even consider dropping Olimar, but it's still a bit distressing. I hope they'll fix that in a patch, but that's wishful thinking. At the very least, the buffs to Pikmin Throw are fairly noticeable.

 

[Blue Banana]

stuff

I'm not going to say whether Olimar will have a problem with swords or not in Ultimate or if reduced Pikmin health will hurt him in the long run, but I have something to say about

while all we seem to have gotten is a different grab that isn't even strictly better as far as I can tell

I'm confident in saying that a reworked grab is all that Olimar got in the transition to Ultimate is objectively wrong. There's a pinned thread that I periodically update, which details everything that changed and things that have possibly changed. For a summary of that thread:
- Olimar's throws are better in terms of damage and KO potential. He actually has kill throws that actually do their job. Forward throw's better KO potential means he now has a more viable DI mixup throw option at the ledge. Back throw may not be as good as the other two but it does a decent chunk of damage with 1 pikmin and probably the most damage out of a throw with 3. Down throw combos are not as reliable as it previously was but still definitely there. The increased endlag with more Pikmin and pivot grab in general sucks and will need to get used to, but the devs seem to want players to stray away from using grabs often in general, and Olimar has other important changes to his kit that his grab game has to get a nerf at some point.
- Aerials are disjointed. This is really big; it means that Olimar can go for juggles with up air after knocking the opponent up with down tilt, up tilt, or up smash. He can fight back if he's in disadvantage. He can go for down air spikes offstage and possibly still get a stage spike if he doesn't get the 1 frame sweetspot. Yellow pikmin have larger hitboxes than they did in 4, which goes hand in hand with disjointed aerials and allows Olimar to stuff certain aerials that he couldn't do otherwise. It overall adds his ability to push his advantage a lot more than what he could in 4.
- Frame 2-7 super armor and less endlag on whistle. Olimar still has to take the full brunt of damage, and it isn't reliable on certain multi-hit attacks, but having an option like this on a character well-known for their disadvantage state and in a game where you only have one airdodge is good and probably very important for Olimar players to get the timing down.
- Up smash's reduced endlag gives the move a lot more purpose in starting up juggles and as a good KO option to throw out, even if it's still a projectile.
- More damage on literally everything. Multiplier boosts on red and purple Pikmin mean that damage can add up really quickly on juggles. Damage increase for blue throws is always welcome, especially now that down throw combos are more situationally dependent. Latch damage from any of the three primary colors is now an actual threat if unattended, which (along with reduced HP) gives the opponent an incentive to try to kill them and more of a reason for the Olimar player to go in and punish.
- The universal run speed boost and jumpsquat frame reduction. Less frames to jump is probably why combos from down tilt and up tilt are more possible. The run speed may not seem important for someone like Olimar, but running smashes and a disjointed forward air are good if you have to get on the offensive. Also, the game is, as you said, more fast-paced than Smash 4, and there are going to be situations where sitting back and throwing stuff is not the best solution.

I don't think that I'll convince you that Olimar is in a better spot in this game, but as someone who has been recording these changes in a document for the pre-release months and someone who has done a lot of testing on this character before, I felt like I had to say something.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

I'm by no means saying I have any sort of final word on Olimar, I know the general consensus is that he was buffed, and I'm going against the grain as far as I know by saying he feels a lot worse.

I still have a ton to learn about this game, I didn't even know Forward Throw was a viable kill throw until I read your post, and I haven't gotten used to using the whistle again because Smash 4 just trained me to forget about it but that's another example of a new thing I need to be trying to utilize. I may end up having a completely different opinion in a week or two. As far as my initial impression goes however, it just doesn't feel like the character has enough anymore.

 

[HyperL]

I'm curious. Some of you are saying he got worse than in Smash 4...

Was he really better than this?

 

[Blue Banana]

dakotaisgreat If you're interested and have a discord account, you can join the Olimar discord. A lot of metagame discussion is happening there in the past few days, so that might help you out on how to play the character in Ultimate. You should be able to find the link on the Smashcords website.

 

[RepStar]

Been playing this game since release and havent seen a single olimar yet in any mode.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

Several days later:

I was wrong he's broken.

 

[MERPIS]

Olimar's definitely top 5 in this game maybe top 3, so his player base might grow a little, he's definitely not as hard to pick up and play as smash 4 olimar was smash 4 olimar was painful to use at times. The scene where I am has next to no olimar players, actually I'm the only one where I live, and possibly the only one in all the maritimes

 

[IcyLight]

Olimar is also one of those characters that's a niche pick, regardless of whether or not he's good. Most people just can't stand playing AS him as much as they can't stand playing against him. He will see some usage for sure, because us Oli mains are pretty dedicated

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I can’t explain exactly what it is but Olimar doesn’t seem quite right compared to how he felt in Smash4. I could be completely crazy and wrong, that is a possibility. But I played him a lot in smash4 and was pretty decent. In Smash U it seems like Olimar lost his edge. Like he moves just slightly slower or faster than before to the point you have to relearn his mechanics.

Anybody else feel this way? Is it just me?

 

[Cheockalet]

I use to play him in Brawl and he feels very different, but then again the game's engine is different. Olimar is a solid character with polarizing strengths and weaknesses. When you are pushing advantage, he is very difficult to handle since he seems so overwhelming. However when he is getting combo'd or walled out, he seems about as useful as a peanut at a preschool. I hated using him in the beginning, but after getting use to the game's engine, I'm beginning to understand how he plays a little more. Myran is very helpful, as are Shuton's videos. I'd say Olimar is one of those characters you have to grind out to learn.

With that being said I wish his lineup had 4 pikmin.