Will 8-Player Smash return?

[Koopaul]

You know the more I think about the Switch playing games undocked (off the tv and on the handheld) the more I feel 8-Player Smash might get the axe. Didn't Sakurai himself admit that 8-Player Smash was meant to be played on a tv screen where all the characters could be seen better? Well the Switch's whole theme is to play all your games anywhere, on the go, with no restrictions. Sakurai must consider this and realise that 8-Player Smash would be terrible on the Switch. Imagine 8-Players on Palutena's Temple looking at that tiny screen.

Watch this video at the 1:24 mark to see four grown men trying to player Mario Kart 8 Deluxe undocked. They are miserable.

Now imagine that there is DOUBLE that number. Even more misery is sure to happen.

Of course he could lock 8-Player Smash from being used undocked. Maybe. But I'm not sure any developer would want to include a mode that can't work undocked. It ruins the Switch's main selling point.

What do you guys think? Will 8-Player Smash return despite it probably being a terrible thing to play undocked?

 

[FamicomDisk]

Watch this video at the 1:24 mark to see four grown men trying to player Mario Kart 8 Deluxe undicked. They are miserable.

...Huh?!

Joking aside, I can see it getting removed. Nintendo’s been pretty good at making sure its games work equally well in both docked and handheld mode, and I expect that to continue. Smash has removed and added modes with each game anyways, with Smash 4 not having tournaments or boss battles, each game having a different trophy game, etc., so it’s not unheard of to see a mode like this removed.

I could see it being removed, but I also think they might just keep it around and let people decide whether they want to use it in undocked mode or not. The Switch IS a home console, after all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's probably a situational type of dilemma, depending on if the Ice Climbers return or not. If the Ice Climbers do not return, then 8-player Smash will have very little reason to not come back.

In other words, all fighters have to be fully compatible with 8-player Smash. If performance issues occur when 8 sets of the same character are present (which could be a huge problem for the Ice Climbers), then that specific fighter either has to get the boot, or 8-player Smash gets the boot.

Also, remember that the solo game modes can potentially have 8-player match scenarios, especially when talking about event matches.

 

[xzx]

Well, of course 8-player smash will return! It was a huge success, so it would be weird if they just axed it. But it will just be allowed when docked though. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It most likely will. If a single character is an issue... they can simply not be selected in one mode. It's happened before.

The mode is highly popular and fun. It's only honestly ever been an issue when it showed up in Classic Mode anyway. Just remove it from there, and it's golden.

 

[Koopaul]

I fixed the typo in the first post.

I'm not talking about character issues. I'm talking about it not working with the Switch's main function of playing off screen.

If the Ice Climbers do not return, then 8-player Smash will have very little reason to not come back.

I just gave you a reason. Undocked Switch.

I know it seems like a wierd reason to remove something but the whole selling point of the Switch is that you can fully play these games anywhere. But 8-Players would be ridiculous to try to do.

 

[FamicomDisk]

Maybe they could lower the amount of players? Instead of 8-Player Smash, maybe it’d be 5 or 6 players to keep it a little less hectic? That might be better for undocked play.

 

[DaUsername]

8-Player Smash is a feature they've wanted to include since Melee, I don't think they'd immediately remove it. Wii U having off TV play didn't result in it not being included.
Also, "ICs wouldn't work in 8-Player Smash" is just speculation, Sakurai only said the the Ice Climbers didn't work on the 3DS.

 

[Deleted member]

I really hope it does return and honestly it should. 8-player Smash for me felt like...the true form of Smash Bros.--it's so beautiful.

Removing it would be like getting rid of double characters and special items in Mario Kart or the battle system and story of Paper Mario or the g*dd**n protagonist in a Metroid game! Truly unthinkable.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I’m doubtful they would remove it as an option unless it has large performance issues, which most if it was the 3DS to my knowledge.

 

[Koopaul]

8-Player Smash is a feature they've wanted to include since Melee, I don't think they'd immediately remove it. Wii U having off TV play didn't result in it not being included.

Usually the Wii U gamepad would have been held by one person and would be looked at by one person only. Not eight.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I don't see why it won't return

 

[Nonno Umby]

Usually the Wii U gamepad would have been held by one person and would be looked at by one person only. Not eight.

At the same time the Switch supports wireless connections up to 8 consoles, so potentially every player can have his own screen even on the go, as long as they have a Switch. That is how 8 players are supported on Mario Kart 8 DX, if I recall correctly.

 

[Garo]

I do think and hope it will return. Aside from playing For Glory, my other preferred way to currently enjoy Smash 4 is to watch the YoVideogames crew play party matches. They regularly have at least 5-player matches and I can only imagine their disappointment if Smash for Switch goes back to 4-players at max.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At the same time the Switch supports wireless connections up to 8 consoles, so potentially every player can have his own screen even on the go, as long as they have a Switch. That is how 8 players are supported on Mario Kart 8 DX, if I recall correctly.

This would also encourage the return of Smash Run.

 

[Astraltar]

My feelings are, if they're going to have to cut Ice Climbers again because of 8-player smash, then we don't need it back. I rarely ever used the 8-player smash function, and I happen to have a lot of family members who like the game So, yeah, bottom line, Ice Climbers over 8-player Smash. That said I hope it comes back AND we get Ice Climbers again.

 

[SonicMario]

I hope it does. Just recall all the possible options you can do in 8 player Smash besides what you already could with just 4

8-Player free for all
2 Vs. 2 Vs. 2 Vs. 2
3 Vs. 3 Vs. 2
4 vs. 4
5 Vs. 3
6 Vs. 2
7 Vs. 1
etc.

And that's not even getting to what becomes possible with 5-7 players. like 3 on 3. It's great to have options like that for parties. I hope Ice Climbers still work or if they can't they just don't allow them to be used in the mode.

But if it came between keeping 8-Player Smash or returning the Ice Climbers... Sorry, I mean no offense to those who really want the Ice Climbers back, but I'd pick the variety of choice for parties over one singular character. But again I hope some kind of compromise comes out for this before the developers have to make that choice or the best case scenario happens and they find a way for the Switch to be able to handle 16 Ice Climbers at once fine enough after all.

 

[LunarOctopus]

I feel like they might keep it, but the other side of it is can you even sync 8 controllers to the Switch? I only got mine a little while ago and only have the one pair of Joy-cons, but I just feel like the fact that there are no GameCube ports or Wii-mote's or anything may cause Nintendo to think about it in a way where it won't be necessary on Switch because the Switch doesn't have a billion controller options like the Wii-U had. The Wii-U had the GamePad, Wii-mote, Wii-mote + nunchuck, Pro controller, GameCube controller, and 3DS. The Switch has Joy-cons and the Pro controller. It doesn't seem practical to me at all, although I'd love to keep 8 player smash.

I hope it does. Just recall all the possible options you can do in 8 player Smash besides what you already could with just 4

8-Player free for all
2 Vs. 2 Vs. 2 Vs. 2
3 Vs. 3 Vs. 2
4 vs. 4
5 Vs. 3
6 Vs. 2
7 Vs. 1
etc.

And that's not even getting to what becomes possible with 5-7 players. like 3 on 3. It's great to have options like that for parties. I hope Ice Climbers still work or if they can't they just don't allow them to be used in the mode.

But if it came between keeping 8-Player Smash or returning the Ice Climbers... Sorry, I mean no offense to those who really want the Ice Climbers back, but I'd pick the variety of choice for parties over one singular character. But again I hope some kind of compromise comes out for this before the developers have to make that choice or the best case scenario happens and they find a way for the Switch to be able to handle 16 Ice Climbers at once fine enough after all.

Yeah but not allowing a character to be used in a certain mode just doesn't make sense and would feel really broken. I can't see why using Ice Climbers in 8 player smash wouldn't work? So what if 8 people pick him? 16 characters on screen sounds like it'd be a great thing to experiment with for ****s and giggles.

 

[SonicMario]

I feel like they might keep it, but the other side of it is can you even sync 8 controllers to the Switch? I only got mine a little while ago and only have the one pair of Joy-cons, but I just feel like the fact that there are no GameCube ports or Wii-mote's or anything may cause Nintendo to think about it in a way where it won't be necessary on Switch because the Switch doesn't have a billion controller options like the Wii-U had. The Wii-U had the GamePad, Wii-mote, Wii-mote + nunchuck, Pro controller, GameCube controller, and 3DS. The Switch has Joy-cons and the Pro controller. It doesn't seem practical to me at all, although I'd love to keep 8 player smash.

The gamecube adapters that work on the Wii U also work on the Switch albeit it currently registers Gamecube controllers as Pro controllers. So that should raise the control options to 4 between the pro controller, single joycon, 2 joycons in a grip, and gamecube controllers. It's mighty expensive for one person to be able to afford all those controllers just to have around, but should still be feasible. (Probably why it's best to plan a 5-8 person battle if they have a friend who also has a switch)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah but not allowing a character to be used in a certain mode just doesn't make sense and would feel really broken. I can't see why using Ice Climbers in 8 player smash wouldn't work? So what if 8 people pick him? 16 characters on screen sounds like it'd be a great thing to experiment with for ****s and giggles.

It makes perfect sense. There's no reason to outright exclude them from the game itself over a single mode.

Also, please do not censor dodge or double post. Just edit your messages instead and write the word as normal.

 

[TheTrueHer0]

If ICs are in smash 5 then I doubt 8 playernsmash will be a thing. The switch (maybe even when it’s docked) probably can’t handle 8 ICs. Smash 4 focused more on all the multiplayer things than the single player (which I 100% agree with) but smash 4 singe player was almost non existent. Classic and all star got dumbed down, events got dumbed down, unlockable characters got dumbed down (every 10 matches you unlock a character) and more. I hope target test comes back like it was in Melee but I’ll be fine if it comes back like it did in brawl. I know the game is meant to be a party game put with the switch being portable, having an enjoyable single player mode in case your like, on an airplane or something isn’t important

 

[Lyndis_]

I highly doubt 8-Player Smash is going anywhere. It's incredibly popular with casual players despite what this board's perspective may mostly be on it, and I honestly don't think Ice Climbers have anything to do with it.

They're not going to remove a mode for one character. That character will either be unallowed in the mode, will function in the mode, or they'll not add them at all. I love Ice Climbers but does anyone really think they're a priority over an entire mode that has a ton of advertising potential to Nintendo? Playing local with up to 8-Players is huge for marketing.

If for some reason 8-Player is gone (I believe to be incredibly unlikely in the first place) it wont be because of Ice Climbers.

Frankly I believe Ice Climbers would definitely be able to run on 8-Player, at least on the Switch, as most of the higher performance draining characters have 8-Player optimized versions of their character models that it uses during gameplay (it goes to the regular models when you pause the game, so it's generally unnoticeable.) I think Ice Climbers having been intended for Sm4sh at all (only being cut for 3DS, which does not have 8-Player to begin with) kind of throws a wrench into the idea that 8-Player prevents Ice Climbers or vise versa.

Yeah but not allowing a character to be used in a certain mode just doesn't make sense and would feel really broken. I can't see why using Ice Climbers in 8 player smash wouldn't work? So what if 8 people pick him? 16 characters on screen sounds like it'd be a great thing to experiment with for ****s and giggles.

Miithinks you might be onto something.

 

[Gimj]

It would be a very stupid choice for Nintendo to not feature 8-player Smash again. It will return. Undocked mode not being strong enough to support 8 Ice Climbers doesn't seem likely. At worst, they will limit how many Ice Climbers can be in an 8-player Smash. They don't have to ban them outright, because it's unlikely just 1 Ice Climbers will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I think the worst case scenario is like a limit of 3 Ice Climbers, and that seems very far-fetched anyway. 8 player Smash is a pretty iconic and even historic game mode.

All this assumes that the IC's can't be handled of course. I think they can, and wouldn't be too surprised to see them push the envelope even all the way to like 10 player Smash or something crazy. Only the 3ds was mentioned to not be able to handle them, and if the Wii U could handle 8 of them then the Switch can handle even more.

 

[LancerStaff]

8 player Smash is definitely returning. If anything they’re going to integrate it more instead of having separate 4 and 8 player modes. Online will probably be capped at 4 systems (not necessarily 4 players) for lag reasons though.

I also don’t see them including any characters that would have problems with 8 players, especially if they integrate it.

 

[Deleted member]

I am rather disappointed in everyone who thinks that both the Ice Climbers are more important than 8-player smash and that the Switch cannot handle 8-player smash with Ice Climbers.

Sakurai squeezed 8-player Smash with 1080p 60fps out of the Wii U with only minor sacrifices to stage elements and such. Like was said, it's a feature Sakurai has wanted to implement since Melee. It ain't going anywhere. The only reason the Ice Climbers were cut was due to the 3DS limitations, not the Wii U. The Wii U could have processed 16 Ice Climbers; just the 3DS couldn't. Aaaaand, we know the Switch is more powerful than the Wii U so there is no good reason to cut such a popular and well-received feature.

Sure, you could play 8-player Smash on Wii U using a 24" TV....but why would you?
Sure, you could play 8-player Smash on Switch in tabletop mode....but why would you?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There's a lot more that needs to kept in mind though. Certain stage hazards were removed if 5 or more players are participating, since the Wii U could end up being pushed to its limits if there are 8 fighters, several Poke Ball Pokemon, an Assist Trophy, and the inclusion of stage hazards like Ridley and Metal Face.

 

[LunarOctopus]

I'm just saying that if the Switch can't handle 16 Ice Climbers (which I completely believe it could. It's able to run Skyrim after all.) They wouldn't take a character off the roster for a specific mode. It's just out-of-place. I think that if 8-player Smash and the Ice Climbers were to both return, then Ice Climbers would still be in the 8-player mode.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm just saying that if the Switch can't handle 16 Ice Climbers (which I completely believe it could. It's able to run Skyrim after all.) They wouldn't take a character off the roster for a specific mode. It's just out-of-place. I think that if 8-player Smash and the Ice Climbers were to both return, then Ice Climbers would still be in the 8-player mode.

Mii Fighters are not available for online With Anyone. They aren't available for many Event Matches too. They already did. They definitely would instead of cutting either, because it's actually not that big of a deal.

 

[LunarOctopus]

Mii Fighters are not available for online With Anyone. They aren't available for many Event Matches too. They already did. They definitely would instead of cutting either, because it's actually not that big of a deal.

But Mii fighters were removed from online because they could be used to create inappropriate images in the Mii creator, which is why they didn't appear at all on the Wii. However, on Wii U they are playable against friends I believe. As for the events, well I don't really know about why they're removed from that, but it doesn't matter as you're not playing against others in events.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But Mii fighters were removed from online because they could be used to create inappropriate images in the Mii creator, which is why they didn't appear at all on the Wii. However, on Wii U they are playable against friends I believe. As for the events, well I don't really know about why they're removed from that, but it doesn't matter as you're not playing against others in events.

And if Ice Climbers can't be used in one mode but the rest of the game, they'd be removed for that one mode instead of cutting both. It's more logical to do so.

It's the same point. If somebody doesn't work out, you don't need to put both together. There's no reason to cut either. They already remove stuff that doesn't work in 8-Player Mode from the stage. Having one less character isn't a huge deal. Just simply lock them out of one mode.

 

[PixelSun]

16-Players Smash when?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think it's makes no sense to remove certain fighters from 8-player Smash. Either make everyone work, or something has to go.

 

[Aurumai]

Wasn't 8-player Smash in the 3DS version of Smash 4? If so, I can't see them removing it just on the grounds of being less visible on the Switch tablet. Not to mention, I highly doubt that Sakurai expects many people to use handheld/table top mode for the more "party" type modes.

I'm just saying that if the Switch can't handle 16 Ice Climbers (which I completely believe it could. It's able to run Skyrim after all.) They wouldn't take a character off the roster for a specific mode. It's just out-of-place. I think that if 8-player Smash and the Ice Climbers were to both return, then Ice Climbers would still be in the 8-player mode.

I think the days of game engines being limited by the power of a system are pretty much over, at least for things like this. You could play Ice Climbers in Smash Melee, and that was running on a system with less than half of the computing performance of the Switch in handheld mode. There's just no way.

Mii Fighters are not available for online With Anyone. They aren't available for many Event Matches too. They already did. They definitely would instead of cutting either, because it's actually not that big of a deal.

I believe that's because Mii Fighters are highly customizable and would therefore be subject to exploitation of certain mechanics. It makes perfect sense that Nintendo didn't want to subject players online to a broken Mii Fighter if someone were to figure out the right combination. Also, Event Matches are specifically tailored to be a challenge for the roster of regular characters. I think the same logic applies to this case as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe that's because Mii Fighters are highly customizable and would therefore be subject to exploitation of certain mechanics. It makes perfect sense that Nintendo didn't want to subject players online to a broken Mii Fighter if someone were to figure out the right combination. Also, Event Matches are specifically tailored to be a challenge for the roster of regular characters. I think the same logic applies to this case as well.

It had nothing to do with any of that(for the online). It's because of possibly using likeness of real people(copyright issues, more or less) or inappropriate designs.

Also, I forget that it was irrelevant during Event Matches. It was Smash Party(I forget the correct name) that they were unplayable, due to the design of the specific mode.

In the end, as long as the reason has merit in some way(inappropriate avatars, doesn't work well in a mode, etc.), it's not a problem to do so. Also, 8-Player Smash is not in the 3DS version. It already has some trouble running in the Wii U version with too many players, removing hazards and even simplifying the character skeletons so there is less lag. So it clearly shows they're willing to sacrifice certain parts of gameplay in order to make the mode work. It's not the same type of thing, true, but it's still important to note. In other words, compromises are fine. It's not like them being in one mode compared to the rest of the game is the biggest deal in the world. It's very different from cutting a character from an entire game, but not the other main version.

 

[PSIGuy]

Some stages only allow 5-6 players instead of 7-8. I don't see the harm in having situational restrictions if the Switch is undocked or people want 8-player Ice Climber matches. Worst comes to worst, you remind players that 8-player Smash is a side mode/option like customs are.

 

[Tailisu10]

I would be very disappointed if they pull a Gamefreak and remove it, it's one of my favorite new mode alongside Smash Run. It's always a blast whenever I played it with my family, at my college, events and tournaments. It's an evolution for the series and they'll definitively be taking a step back if it's gone in Smash switch.

And if peeps think that it will be a hassle to play it on the small screen, they could just choose to not play it undocked. As for me, I outright played it with a at least six people.

 

[LancerStaff]

I am rather disappointed in everyone who thinks that both the Ice Climbers are more important than 8-player smash and that the Switch cannot handle 8-player smash with Ice Climbers.

Sakurai squeezed 8-player Smash with 1080p 60fps out of the Wii U with only minor sacrifices to stage elements and such. Like was said, it's a feature Sakurai has wanted to implement since Melee. It ain't going anywhere. The only reason the Ice Climbers were cut was due to the 3DS limitations, not the Wii U. The Wii U could have processed 16 Ice Climbers; just the 3DS couldn't. Aaaaand, we know the Switch is more powerful than the Wii U so there is no good reason to cut such a popular and well-received feature.

Sure, you could play 8-player Smash on Wii U using a 24" TV....but why would you?
Sure, you could play 8-player Smash on Switch in tabletop mode....but why would you?

It’s not that simple... Saying the Switch could run 16 ICies because the Wii U ran flawlessly (which it absolutely didn’t but whatever...) doesn’t make sense. It’s like saying because we had games with split screen before means we can just press a button and get split screen now. That’s absolutely not how it works.

Fragmenting things is ugly, and to the average consumer they will think less of the product. Effort that goes into making the ICies work on some stages could be put into something less ugly like more items on screen, flashier stage effects, or more/all stages being available with 8 players.

Depending on how much of the old engine we’re using and how it works, (I would bet “most” considering how much each game borrowed from the previous) we may just be limited to 8 characters on screen period. Fixing that might just be too much hassle, and again, they’re going to shy away from ugliness like making characters not available in certain modes for no apparent reason.

 

[LunarOctopus]

It’s not that simple... Saying the Switch could run 16 ICies because the Wii U ran flawlessly (which it absolutely didn’t but whatever...) doesn’t make sense. It’s like saying because we had games with split screen before means we can just press a button and get split screen now. That’s absolutely not how it works.

Fragmenting things is ugly, and to the average consumer they will think less of the product. Effort that goes into making the ICies work on some stages could be put into something less ugly like more items on screen, flashier stage effects, or more/all stages being available with 8 players.

Depending on how much of the old engine we’re using and how it works, (I would bet “most” considering how much each game borrowed from the previous) we may just be limited to 8 characters on screen period. Fixing that might just be too much hassle, and again, they’re going to shy away from ugliness like making characters not available in certain modes for no apparent reason.

This is what I was trying to say. To remove a character from a mode (than isn't a custom character) just seems ugly. However, I do think the Ice Climbers could be done on Switch with 8-Player Smash.