Wii U Stage Blast Zone Data

[Hitaku]

- Update July 31st, 2015 -
Verified that Omega Hyrule Castle and Omega Peach's Castle have standard Omega blast zones. All testing methods remain unaltered by any patches thus far.

Recently I came to the realization that my local Smashers and I were often clueless when it came to counter picking and banning stages. These elements of Smash are often overlooked and are decided based on guesses. A few of my friends and I got together and decided to do some testing so that we could use some actual data for our decisions.
All of these tests were performed in training mode using Mario’s attacks against Captain Falcon. The CPU was set to control in training mode meaning no DI was used. When scoring a KO on your opponent there are a total of 3 different death explosions that can occur, horizontal, vertical, or diagonal. These explosions are based on which part of the blast zone your opponent dies in. These explosions were the benchmarks for our data.

For our vertical blast zone tests, we used Mario’s up tilt to check the lowest possible percent used to score a kill off the top. Unfortunately, some stages are not the same elevation due to platforms or general unevenness. The data below is obtained using the center of a stage while not on any platforms.

Vertical Blast Zone Data (Stage's Center):
Kongo Jungle: 233
Castle Siege - Transformation Two: 216
Battlefield: 212
Miiverse: 212
Delfino Plaza: 204
Dreamland (64): 204
Duck Hunt: 204
Final Destination: 204
Lylat Cruise: 204
Smashville: 204
Castle Siege - Transformation Three: 203
Castle Siege - Transformation One: 201
Town and City: 200
Halberd - Transformation One: 192
Halberd - Transformation Two: 183

All of our horizontal blast zone tests used Mario’s non-angled forward tilt to check the lowest possible percent used to score a horizontal explosion. For these tests we rolled Captain Falcon as close to the ledge as possible before hitting him.

Horizontal Blast Zone Data (Stage's Ledge):
Kongo Jungle: 211
Battlefield: 206
Dreamland (64): 204
Miiverse: 204
Halberd - Transformation One: 194
Duck Hunt: 192
Final Destination: 189
Smashville: 189
Delfino Plaza: 188
Lylat Cruise: 188
Castle Siege - Transformation Three: 187
Town and City: 187
Halberd - Transformation Two: 179
Castle Siege - Transformation Two: 0 (Walk-off)

Not all deaths occur at a stage's ledge. Even though Final Destination and Smashville share the same ledge kill percent, that doesn't make the kill percent from the their center the same due to their size difference.

Horizontal Blast Zone Data (Stage's Center):
Battlefield: 259
Duck Hunt: 259
Kongo Jungle: 259
Miiverse: 259
Dreamland (64): 257
Final Destination: 253
Halberd - Transformation Two: 247
Lylat Cruise: 246
Town and City: 246
Halberd - Transformation One: 245
Castle Siege - Transformation Three: 243
Smashville: 241
Delfino Plaza: 238
Castle Siege - Transformation One: 233
Castle Siege - Transformation Two: 212

Without a ruler, we had to create our own unit of measurement for measuring a stages length. For our tests we decided to go with “falcons”. One falcon is equal to the distance that Captain Falcon travels after using his up tilt. To determine how many falcons across each stage was, we rolled Captain Falcon into the ledge on one side of the stage and had him up tilt across until he went into his leaning animation on the other side. Not only was this useful for testing a stage's size, it also gave us the ability to determine where the stage's center was.

Stage Sizes (Falcons):
Castle Siege - Transformation Two: 70 (Walk-off)
Duck Hunt: 37
Halberd - Transformation Two: 36
Final Destination: 34
Castle Siege - Transformation Three: 33
Miiverse: 32
Lylat Cruise: 32
Town and City: 32
Battlefield: 31
Dreamland (64): 30
Halberd - Transformation One: 29
Kongo Jungle: 28
Delfino Plaza: 28
Smashville: 27
Castle Siege - Transformation One: 26

Having a visual aid sometimes helps when comparing data. The two images below are a scatter plots showing the information above. While it isn't perfect, it gives us a very good understanding of the blast zones on every stage. Being able to base your decisions on where you and your opponent typically score kills is very important. So long as you can keep platforms in the back of your head when looking at this data, this is an amazing tool for both counter picking and banning.

Fun Facts:

Omega Values:
Every Omega stage has the same size, vertical, and horizontal blast zones as Final Destination with the exception of Omega Halberd, Omega Coliseum, and Omega Palutena’s Temple. Though extremely minor, these three stages require an extra 1% to kill off the top.

Delfino Plaza Ceiling Data Extended:
Delfino Plaza has several transformations. The ceiling in these transformations varies from having the same ceiling as Final Destination, to being as low as Halberd’s second transformation. I didn't include this in the previous data because I felt it would be way too cluttered to have half of the data revolve around one stage, especially for the graphs. I'll probably post the horizontal data when I get a chance to do it later.

Vertical Blast Zone Data (Delfino Plaza's Center):

Training Mode Facts:
Training mode does not suffer from diminishing returns and is uninfected by the rage mechanic. Though players get the "steaming" visual for it, there is no added knock back. This was excellent news to me as I didn't need to heal Mario after every percent change on Captain Falcon.

Shout Outs:
Shout outs to the Norcal 707 Smash 4 community. Without you guys I wouldn't have had the motivation to go through with all of this testing. Special thanks to my friends Count and Jimber Jangers for both testing and rechecking the data with me.

 

[Countcocofang]

Awesome! Nice work

 

[Pyr]

Outstanding work.

Got to ask, though: I assume Mario's tilts were neutral and not up or down, right?

 

[Hitaku]

Outstanding work.

Got to ask, though: I assume Mario's tilts were neutral and not up or down, right?

Yep, each number was tested several times with a neutral input.

 

[Shaya]

Omega Values:
Every Omega stage has the same size, vertical, and horizontal blast zones as Final Destination with the exception of Omega Halberd, Omega Coliseum, and Omega Palutena’s Temple. Though extremely minor, these three stages require an extra 1% to kill off the top.

And by accident or otherwise, two of the most commonly picked Omega stages I see in tournament lol (palutena/halberd)

Good job =)

 

[Kronos2560]

I heard Wii-Fit studio-OMEGA has a really short vertical blast zone. Care to check Hitaku?

 

[shadowlink3]

oh damn this is dope

 

[Piford]

I actually measured these blastzones using the in game feet from launch distance, and all the stages besides Battlefield and Kongo Jungle 64 gave 55ft from the ledge, meaning that those small differences are extremely small. Wuhu Island, Skyloft, and Pokémon Stadium 2 also gave 55ft, so they'd be in the same range. Also, Windy Hill Zone gave 45ft from the ledge, so it's a bit smaller. From center, Wuhu Island would be around where FD and Duck Hunt are, and Skyloft and Pokémon Stadium 2 would be around Lylat Cruise and Town and City. For ceiling they all netted near similar data as well, with the obvious exceptions of Halberd and Kongo Jungle 64. Some varied by a couple of feet like Town and City, but not really by that much.

This just means that the blastzones have been mostly standardized having little difference from each other. This means when counterpicking, you'd want to more focus on the platform arrangements and stage features rather than blast zone sizes. Obviously Halberd and Kongo Jungle 64 can be picked for their blastzones, but you can just strike them if they disadvantage you too much.

 

[Hitaku]

I heard Wii-Fit studio-OMEGA has a really short vertical blast zone. Care to check Hitaku?

I went and double checked for you. Omega Wii-Fit Studio is the same value as the others at 204.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Good job collecting all this data. Also a very pretty OP.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I did a bit of testing myself on this actually to find out what the best stages for Mii Brawler and his helicopter kick were, I never released it to the public though. Tho, this is pretty accurate to what I had found out myself, so I guess my work was worth it.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Omega Values:
Every Omega stage has the same size, vertical, and horizontal blast zones as Final Destination with the exception of Omega Halberd, Omega Coliseum, and Omega Palutena’s Temple. Though extremely minor, these three stages require an extra 1% to kill off the top.

Firstly, really good work with all of this, excellent thread. Are you absolutely certain that the listed Omegas have slightly higher ceilings? Previous research has usually shown identical blastzones for all Omegas so I'm wondering if there was room for error or (unlisted fractions of percents) in your analysis.

If there's no room for error, I suspect that all ceiling heights on Omegas are different, but our usual tools aren't precise enough to notice. Meaning you'd see different sets of Omegas needing "an extra percent" depending on what move was used to measure.

 

[Pazx]

Well I've been out-done, move this to the academy ASAP.

 

[Hitaku]

Firstly, really good work with all of this, excellent thread. Are you absolutely certain that the listed Omegas have slightly higher ceilings? Previous research has usually shown identical blastzones for all Omegas so I'm wondering if there was room for error or (unlisted fractions of percents) in your analysis.

If there's no room for error, I suspect that all ceiling heights on Omegas are different, but our usual tools aren't precise enough to notice. Meaning you'd see different sets of Omegas needing "an extra percent" depending on what move was used to measure.

I'm positive that they were different by one percent. I was on my 6th test when I ran into Omega Halberd. I really thought they were all going to be the same size before then. I tested it several times but the results were always consistent. At first, I thought this was only Halberd, so I labeled it the "Halberd Effect". However, after further testing, the "Halberd Effect" also applied to Omega Coliseum and Omega Palutena's Temple.

It's possible that the stages are all slightly different. I chose to use Mario's up tilt for this process because of how light the hit is. Harder hitting moves will probably skip by the difference. Either way, no one is going to notice such a small difference.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It's possible that the stages are all slightly different. I chose to use Mario's up tilt for this process because of how light the hit is. Harder hitting moves will probably skip by the difference. Either way, no one is going to notice such a small difference.

I'm inclined to agree with this. If it's 1% off, okay, that's a non-zero difference, but honestly DI messes with kill % more than that so I don't think it's really worth fussing over.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I'm positive that they were different by one percent. I was on my 6th test when I ran into Omega Halberd. I really thought they were all going to be the same size before then. I tested it several times but the results were always consistent. At first, I thought this was only Halberd, so I labeled it the "Halberd Effect". However, after further testing, the "Halberd Effect" also applied to Omega Coliseum and Omega Palutena's Temple.

It's possible that the stages are all slightly different. I chose to use Mario's up tilt for this process because of how light the hit is. Harder hitting moves will probably skip by the difference. Either way, no one is going to notice such a small difference.

Alright, cool. Thanks for going over it with me. I'd have to agree there's no room for error with your method. Again, really great stuff

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Dang, that must have taken a lot of work. Nice job.

One thing I am curious about, however, is how this changes when you take platforms into account. Battlefield has the third highest blast zone, but what if you're standing on the platforms? I assume the ceiling will be much lower than the other stages, but I'd like to see some data, and some comparisons with the other stages with platforms. This is useful information for people who play characters that rely on vertical KOs, such as myself with Robin. At first glance, Battlefield might seem like a bad choice for Robin from this information, but when you take the platforms into account, suddenly the upper blast zone seems a lot closer.

Also, could we see some data for the more "controversial" stages, like Skyloft, Wuhu Island, and Pokemon Stadium 2?

 

[Inger]

I've been searching all over the place for this data. Thank you so much.

 

[Pazx]

Do you have plans to include any more stages? For reference, PS2 has the same vertical blast zone height as FD and Skyloft's is the same as Battlefield's. If you prefer your data in image form here is a bunch of screenshots showing the percentage that rest kills Mario in training mode in a bunch of different places.

 

[Hitaku]

Dang, that must have taken a lot of work. Nice job.

One thing I am curious about, however, is how this changes when you take platforms into account. Battlefield has the third highest blast zone, but what if you're standing on the platforms? I assume the ceiling will be much lower than the other stages, but I'd like to see some data, and some comparisons with the other stages with platforms.

This was something I thought about for a while. My goal for this project was mostly to create a visual aid people could learn from. If I was to include every hight variation for every stage, that would become very jumbled very quickly. I could add some additional data for stages with platforms like I did with Delfino Plaza in the "fun facts" section if you guys would like.

Do you have plans to include any more stages?

I'd have no issue with including some more stages. The ones I covered were the only legal ones in my area. Again, I'd rather not have the graphs too cluttered so I'd only like to do stages that are actually being used in tournament. Pokemon Stadium 2 is something I should include, I know that some tournaments run it for top 8 via 8 player smash. Are Wuhu Island or Skyloft actually being used in tournament play currently? The last time I saw Wuhu Island being played was when the Wii U first launched. I'm not sure that I've ever seen Skyloft.

 

[Piford]

I'd have no issue with including some more stages. The ones I covered were the only legal ones in my area. Again, I'd rather not have the graphs too cluttered so I'd only like to do stages that are actually being used in tournament. Pokemon Stadium 2 is something I should include, I know that some tournaments run it for top 8 via 8 player smash. Are Wuhu Island or Skyloft actually being used in tournament play currently? The last time I saw Wuhu Island being played was when the Wii U first launched. I'm not sure that I've ever seen Skyloft.

A lot of places have Skyloft legal. Not as many have Wuhu Island, but there's still a considerable amount.

 

[Piford]

So I decided to get the data for Skyloft, Wuhu Island, and PS2 for those who want it.

Skyloft:
Vertical - 212
Horizontal Center - 247
Horizontal Ledge - 192

Wuhu Island
Vertical - 212
Horizontal Center - 256
Horizontal Ledge - 183

Pokémon Stadium 2
Vertical - 204
Horizontal Center - 257
Horizontal Ledge - 195

I was going to do Winy Hill Zone as well, but the data was messed up, it has some weird blastzones. If it was legal in more places, I would've put the effort in, but it's not.

 

[HeavyMetalBird]

Pilot Wings:

Red Plane:
Vertical - 203
Horizontal Center - 263
Horizontal Ledge - 208

Yellow Plane:
Vertical - 203
Horizontal Center - 264
Horizontal Ledge - 191

On pilot wings you should work up damage on the red plane then kill on the yellow.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Pilot Wings:

Red Plane:
Vertical - 203
Horizontal Center - 263
Horizontal Ledge - 208

Yellow Plane:
Vertical - 203
Horizontal Center - 264
Horizontal Ledge - 191

On pilot wings you should work up damage on the red plane then kill on the yellow.

I think the yellow plane is a bit wider, which would explain the comparable kill % from center but lower % from the ledge.

 

[Luigi player]

Hmm... this is weird.
I thought these were inaccurate, because from my previous tests I have some differences (and I'd generally not trust these KO-blasts). But it seems moves are just different or something.

Just tested again:

KO % on mario (no DI etc):
mario utilt FD+SV: 193
megaman utilt FD+SV: 82
fox usmash (uncharged/buffered) FD: 104, SV: 103

Here's the thread from Pazx : http://smashboards.com/threads/ceiling-height-research-thread.384187/
And here were my results : http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-blastzone-differences.381949/

There seem to be some differences in all of our testings.

 

[Hitaku]

There seem to be some differences in all of our testings.

Even if the numbers are different, they should plot about the same when graphed. If that's not the case, I'm not sure what the difference could be. I use training mode to prevent rage, a move with no sweet / sour spot, and a cpu set to control to prevent any DI. I test all of the results many times over before putting in the numbers.

Updated the information with both Dreamland (64) and Miiverse! It should be accurate, but I'll double check it all when I get home late tonight.

Edit: Double checked and ready to go!

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Thanks for this, I was just wondering about the differences. Great work as always.

Since Miiverse has almost identical blastzones to Battlefield, do you personally feel that it should be considered it's own stage?

 

[Thor]

Data is super helpful. Just wanted to post to say thanks, and also [admittedly this probably can only come across as condescending or rude] to point out that "we're" is "we are", so you should omit the apostrophe in the OP's third sentence "All testing methods we're [sic] unaltered by the patch." to be "All testing methods were unaltered by the patch."

 

[RPK]

So how about did you get this data? I was tempted to compile this for the Omega stages since that would be pretty good to know as well. I was thinking some of them might even have lower ceilings than Halberd so I wanted to find those

 

[Hitaku]

Since Miiverse has almost identical blastzones to Battlefield, do you personally feel that it should be considered it's own stage?

I do not. I believe that Miiverse should either be an alternative to Battlefield or banned.

Data is super helpful. Just wanted to post to say thanks, and also [admittedly this probably can only come across as condescending or rude] to point out that "we're" is "we are", so you should omit the apostrophe in the OP's third sentence "All testing methods we're [sic] unaltered by the patch." to be "All testing methods were unaltered by the patch."

Haha, good catch. Thank you!

So how about did you get this data? I was tempted to compile this for the Omega stages since that would be pretty good to know as well. I was thinking some of them might even have lower ceilings than Halberd so I wanted to find those

Both of these questions are covered in my post. To save you the trouble of searching through...

"All of these tests were performed in training mode using Mario’s attacks against Captain Falcon. The CPU was set to control in training mode meaning no DI was used. When scoring a KO on your opponent there are a total of 3 different death explosions that can occur, horizontal, vertical, or diagonal. These explosions are based on which part of the blast zone your opponent dies in. These explosions were the benchmarks for our data."

"Every Omega stage has the same size, vertical, and horizontal blast zones as Final Destination with the exception of Omega Halberd, Omega Coliseum, and Omega Palutena’s Temple. Though extremely minor, these three stages require an extra 1% to kill off the top"

 

[Player-1]

Can anyoneconfirm/deconfirm something for me? I'm pretty confident that, I'm right about this, but not 100% sure. I think during the transitions for town and city as the stage moves down into the "city" or "town" that the stage starts moving down before the blastzone centers back on the stage which means there is a higher ceiling for a couple of seconds (much like delfino transformations giving a lower ceiling).

I think that's what might have happened here actually:
https://youtu.be/ZYCCnoArMvA?t=8m21s

 

[Frido19]

Are the units used to measure the blast zones the same type of unit used to measure knockback distance? I want to make sure because I want calculate the knockback of specific scenarios, so I can easily take that data and use it to see how far attacks send characters on specific stages.

 

[Cat8752]

Just checking but you only tested Lylat's blastzones when the stage wasn't tilting right, because iirc the stage blastzones tilt with the stage.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I don't know whether this has been asked yet, but do any of the stages shared across Brawl and Smash Wii U have the same Blast Zones?