Wii Fit Trainer changes in Ulimate so far

[Teeb147]

One thing that's messing me up and causing SDs is that cancelling an aerial Sun Salutation charge offstage with airdodge is very dangerous...

Yup it really is. If you have your double jump you can jump out of it, which is very useful, but other than that you better hope you dont press a direction when air dodging (still slow, but better than directional)

 

[BJN39]

Checked before I dropped in but I’ve gone through WFT’s normals so far with frame advance in training and verified quite a few little buffs to her moveset:

FAF is just the first from you can interrupt the animation, so lower or sooner is better usually.

Jab 3 hitframe 6-7 -> 5-6

Dash Attack
    hitframe 7-13 -> 6-8/7-13
    damage 6 -> 10/6
    FAF 43 -> 39

FTilt
    hitframe 6-7 -> 6-10 (front) / 6-9 (back)
    damage 9 -> 11

DTilt
    hitframe 10-11 -> 9-12
    damage 12 -> 13.5
    FAF 38 -> 39

UTilt
    Arm intangible 3-12
    hitframe 5-7 -> 5-12
    FAF 35 -> 30

Fsmash
    hitframe 16-19
    FAF 62 -> 57

Dsmash FAF 57 -> 52

NAir landing lag 14 -> 8

FAir
    front hit damage 10/6 -> 12/7.5
    FAF 45 -> 39
    Landing lag 15 -> 9

BAir landing lag 20 -> 12

DAir
    hitframe 20-21/22-24 -> 15-17/18-20
    late hit damage 8 -> 10
    FAF 45 -> 40
    landing lag 20 -> 12
    autocancel <1-40> -> <1-33>

UAir
    landing lag 15 -> 9
    autocancel <6-36> -> <5-34>

 

[SuperMaxBrotherUltimate]

Hey guys! New user here. Loved WFT on Sm4sh. Still playing around with WFT in Ultimate, and will post anything worth noting here. The soccer ball's weight is really throwing me off!

Anyone know a good follow-up when I bury an opponent with my jab? I feel like the last jab that buries the opponent has a longer endlag than before... or maybe people can just become un-buried more easily in Ultimate?

 

[Tollhouse]

Hey guys! New user here. Loved WFT on Sm4sh. Still playing around with WFT in Ultimate, and will post anything worth noting here. The soccer ball's weight is really throwing me off!

Anyone know a good follow-up when I bury an opponent with my jab? I feel like the last jab that buries the opponent has a longer endlag than before... or maybe people can just become un-buried more easily in Ultimate?

I've seen plays bury with jab, then use Nair into upsmash. It's not true but it killed this Samus CPU when she had 35% to begin with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-nPn0TaySg

Also yeah. The sun charge cancel off stage is a bit frustrating. I find myself using sun a lot less now because of it. Perhaps the most efficient way of charging sun now is to directional dodge and snap to the stage edge while charging. May not always charge your sun all the way but at least it's safe. And I believe sun charges faster now anyway.

Although I feel super hoops is so much more reliable now that you can cancel before going perpendicular to the stage platform and still make it back ok. And with the super hoops improved hit box you do have a better chance of making it back if the opponent tries to edge guard you.

 

[jonnobigz]

A header trick I found was if you start it grounded, then fastfall to the ground at your Apex, you can fit in a dsmash and send it quickly forward.

Also, backside of fair ground spikes and confirms into fsmash. Pretty juicy kill confirm around 80% and higher due to it being a weak ground spike, they don't bounce far at all.

 

[RichWalk9891]

It appears to me that WFT's Up B recovery's vertical distance has been shortened.

While it's good that Super Hoops don't require as much button mashing to get maximum resuts, it's a shame that her Up B recover is not as effective now.

 

[Mark The Page]

Wii Fit main returning from Smash 4, and OH. MY. GOD. SHE IS NOT A JOKE ANYMORE. I talk a lot of nitty-gritty technical stuff, but first let me just freak out.

In the total opposite of my other main Villager, Wii Fit Trainer was BUFFED in almost every sense. And to not just finally have an up tilt, but to have a really, REALLY GOOD UP TILT? Yes, please, Sakurai. Please and thank you.

Deep Breathing Sun Salutation hits for 33%. Instant Header from under a platform is even more. This is a character who can throw an opponent from 0% to 40% in the blink of an eye. The ball is faster, bigger, and heavier, and it gets offscreen faster. It doesn't get stuck above the Battlefield platforms anymore. It's so difficult for the opponent to avoid, and the offstage and close-range applications are much more rewarding.

The Header ball now has Fit-seeking abilities like Dedede's Gordo Throw in Smash 4, yet it's still SO MUCH BETTER.

Even her down tilt is now over 20% with Deep Breathing, and Deep Breathing is blazing fast. I'm more often running off the ledge to do it, and of course my opponent runs over. Smash Ultimate's universal changes make offstage play automatically more dangerous for the recovering character, but this little play is still safe. Though it doesn't hurt now that I'm no longer basically invincible offstage. That was what I loved most about my mains.

Only problem I'm having is the new timing for smash attacks. I hate it. It's awful. And I'm not the only one accidentally performing smash attacks like crazy. It seems a lot of other people are also trying to move to and adjust to using the stick shortcuts for tilts instead of smashes. Seems to be the only way to reliably tilt now. Changing stick sensitivity from high to low didn't help much. Just made me unable to drop through platforms quickly. One of my go-to plays as Wii Fit Trainer used to be pivot side tilts. Now those are side smashes.

To make the pivoting woes worse, her pivot cancel tilts have very little momentum. But hey, neutral is already a nightmare we should be avoiding at all costs, so I'm sure it won't impact her viability too much. It's not a tool she wants to need in the first place. Besides, her newly-buffed dash attack is now a kill move. I'll accept that.

 

[Erimir]

Only problem I'm having is the new timing for smash attacks. I hate it. It's awful. And I'm not the only one accidentally performing smash attacks like crazy. It seems a lot of other people are also trying to move to and adjust to using the stick shortcuts for tilts instead of smashes. Seems to be the only way to reliably tilt now. Changing stick sensitivity from high to low didn't help much. Just made me unable to drop through platforms quickly. One of my go-to plays as Wii Fit Trainer used to be pivot side tilts. Now those are side smashes.

To make the pivoting woes worse, her pivot cancel tilts have very little momentum. But hey, neutral is already a nightmare we should be avoiding at all costs, so I'm sure it won't impact her viability too much. It's not a tool she wants to need in the first place. Besides, her newly-buffed dash attack is now a kill move. I'll accept that.

Yeah, I've switched to tilt-stick and I'm trying to get used to it. It seems I must've mostly done my u-smash and d-smashes with the c-stick because those are the ones I keep doing tilts for (but f-smash I'm not having that much issue with). But I'll get used to it.

With tilt-stick, you run, tap the left stick in the opposite direction and then just slightly delayed, hit f-tilt in the same direction. Voila, now I can run up and hit with the back hit of f-tilt again instead of doing an f-smash... But the timing is still not totally easy, because sometimes I still end up doing a dash attack (it seems to be slightly affected by which character I'm using for some reason... maybe it's related to their dash/turnaround speed). But using the left stick to tilt, I have to either have a noticeable delay before I input the tilt or I'll be doing a smash, and that makes it too slow.

 

[Mark The Page]

Hello, it's me yet again with another big breakthrough: the timer on Header's ball resets/replenishes when it's launched!

This is especially useful for re-launching the ball after it bounces off of something else, keeping your projectile in play for way longer than usual. This often happens to me when I'm going for a 1-2 projectile assault: the ball bounces off of the opponent for whatever reason, and ends up blocking my own Sun Salutation. But then the ball stays in play and always seems to hone in on the opponent after being launched by SS. I don't know if that second part is because the ball actually gets heat-seeking properties, but it always seems to for me.

 

[Asdfchris]

I just wanted to share something that i haven't seen mentioned anywhere. It's about moves staling.
So i've tested in training mode with move staling ON and i've noticed 2 things:

• Pummels now enter the stale queue. Doing a bunch of pummels will let your other move regain power.
• Side-B now stales even when not hitting the opponent. While this mean the header attack will lose potency, it also mean you can refresh your move by spamming side-b at will.
• Remember that the stale queue is still 10 slots, so 10 pummels = all moves refreshed.

So if you find yourself having trouble to kill your opponent at a decent % doing these 2 things will alleviate that, especially if you spammed a lot of suns early,

 

[RichWalk9891]

After some time playing as WFT in World of Light, I've noticed a couple of things:

- The Header ball seems to have a slight 'homing' effect against a nearby opponent when using the standard Side B
- Deep Breathing increases both fall speed and run speed when in effect (does anyone know the exact value of both of these increased attributes?)

 

[RichWalk9891]

The SSBU wiki have released more info about WFT, mainly the effects behind her Deep Breathing move.

From the looks of it, Deep Breathing is essentially a super mode as it boosts several important attributes:

• Air speed: x1.17 ~ x1.2
• Fall speed: x1.17 ~ x1.2
• Gravity: x1.17 ~ x1.2
• Initial dash speed: x1.1 ~ x1.13
• Run speed: x1.1 ~ x1.13
• Ground traction x1.1 ~ x1.13

Not only that, there's info on the effect upon activating Deep Breathing, as well as how long it lasts, and how long it takes to reactivate:

• Damage output: x1.16 ~ x1.2 → x1.2 ~ x1.25.
• Duration time: [Fresh] 552 frames → 732, [Stale] 360 frames → ~530
• Refresh time: 3600 frames → 2400.

If you haven't been using Deep Breathing all that much, these new changes might change your mind. Deep Breathing is just too good to miss up.

 

[Reldan]

That 1.2x increase to gravity is amazing. I didn't realize it applied that much. I know there's that vid floating out of deep breathing making WFT immune to the Luigi 0-to-death combo, and that makes perfect sense now.

 

[invy]

Oh hey people have been noticing all my edits to the ssbwiki pages, that's cool. Over the past few weeks I've gone through and updated/completely overhauled all of wii fit's pages to have more accurate and detailed info, so it's a pretty useful resource now if I do say so myself. I also made a page for all Wii Fit's hitbox visualizations, should I make a post on here as well?