Why you should love Dedede's nair.

[Deleted member]

'Ey, Feelicks here. I've had this in mind for a while now, especially as a Dedede main since launch. We talk about the applications of his throws, down smash, Gordos... but you know what move we don't talk about enough?

His neutral air. The belly flop. The harbinger of justice. The move guaranteed to clobba all Kirbies. It's beautiful!

So, what are the main applications of this move? It comes out on frame 7, being one of the fastest moves in Dedede's moveset along with down tilt (which comes out on frame 6). Unfortunately it doesn't get him out of combos, but I didn't make this thread to bemoan that fact. With that said, here's some things.

• It's one of the safer followups out of Dedede's down throw along with back air.
• The move has relatively low landing lag especially compared to Dedede's other attacks.
• It can be used as a fifth taunt after KOing somebody. Watch Dedede belly flop in the air in celebration, he's so happy!
• Neutral aerial is a great move for setups after down throw stops combo'ing. Doing a SHFF or simply FF nair on somebody, preferably the sourspot, sends them directly above you. This allows you to combo into up tilt, down smash or up smash (yes, that move exists... sigh) at low percents, and at high percents, an up air which can lead into a kill. You could probably get a back air in after doing so, but your mileage will vary due to opponents being able to DI and such.
• The move has a deceptive amount of KO power, and this move is pretty good on stages with low ceilings such as Halberd, Battlefield or Dream Land for getting the job done.

So with all this said, what are your thoughts on Dedede's neutral air? Do you agree with me on thinking it's a good move? Are there any other applications of it that I haven't listed here that you know of? Discuss!

 

[williamsga555]

Was just thinking about this the other day, actually.

Nair is a very important tool for Dedede at almost all points. After all, he's the only multijumper with a sex kick available. That's really really nice. It's a little too slow to be a combo breaker, but it helps alleviate his disadvantaged state against most of the cast effectively (since aerials always trade in Smash 4, and trades almost always work out in Dedede's advantage).

It's an under appreciated move for sure. Also has one of the only kill confirms available to the King (leading to up air around 100% or so), which is always nice to have.

Really the only main problem with it is that it's never safe on shield. Otherwise it's wonderful.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

This move is like a quarter of why Dedede is viable. I love it to death.

 

[Kneutronic]

YES.

This is one of Dedede's few quick moves, and I love it so much. I use it mainly as a spacing tool.

 

[Soul Train]

Crazy that you bring this up, Feelicks. In the process of my "problems with D3 patch request" research, I've actually been doing some data analysis - comparing movesets between the heavies - and everything is pointing to unrealized potential in Nair. Dair is junk, Uair honestly doesn't kill well at all, and Bair is slow. But Nair...I'll paste a summary screenshot below:

What does this mean?

• First, explanation: this is a down and dirty way to compare the usefulness of moves: kill % x startup x endlag (FAF). And then I use formulas to auto-color cells in comparison for easy viewing. Green is good, red is bad.
• Second, meaning: by this chart, Nair is (in theory) the best move among all of the heavies' kits. This includes DK's grab -> kill combo, Ganon's Ftilt, Charizard's Uthrow, etc. Note that the formulas used above don't account for range, so duh things will be skewed. BUT there are definitely things to draw from this.
• Third, application: as Girthquake has been so kind to remind me, fastfall instant NAir is amazing. Go to Battlefield, stand on a platform. Practice fastfalling through the platform, then Nairing RIGHT before you hit the ground. Easy hitconfirm - and we need to test what combos from this at what %s.
• Finally, on SOME characters, that just-before-landing Nair is safe on shield - but don't ask me which, testing is needed.

Once more testing is done, we can update the Research thread with some of this stuff. We can't count on any patches boys, gotta dig up everything with the King that we can!

 

[El_Bardo]

This move is the key to win the Sonic MU as you can hit the Spin without trading which follows to some free aerial in most cases.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

This move is the key to win the Sonic MU as you can hit the Spin without trading which follows to some free aerial in most cases.

Holy crap; I had no idea. This really works???

It's so simple I feel so dumb for never noticing. Thank you.

 

[El_Bardo]

Holy crap; I had no idea. This really works???

It's so simple I feel so dumb for never noticing. Thank you.

Yep, Inhale and Nair are the best keys to make pressure and make him think twice before using Spin, see below me playing against sonic in some tournaments to see it in action :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odheeDEwhEc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHIRGR2P07w

 

[Girthquake]

https://youtu.be/MWNgQmFZRvs?t=3m43s Nair also works fantastic as an edge guard against a jump option onto stage

 

[pikazz]

I love his Nair, but I am using it way too less 'A'
I really should ask my playstyle with him

 

[Aki]

Nair is pretty good when combined with platforms. If you can bait your opponent into hitting your shield at kill percents, you can shielddrop>nair for the KO. Especially useful on Town and City.

 

[dean.]

Worth noting that nair launches at a 60° angle which falls into the range that's susceptible to vector inputs. As a primarily vertical-killing move this heavily impacts the %s it kills at (vectoring has a large impact on vertical-launching moves. See Charizard's uthrow for example).

It is an amazing move for many reasons. Just not too reliable at killing.

 

[Krubby]

Dedede's fast fall nooch combos into up-tilt at low percents at all times and often into up-air at high percents. It's for that reason I think battlefield isn't a good stage for him; you have no room to do your nair combos and have no landing options if the opponent doesnt feel threatened by your fast fall nair/bair thanks to being below the platforms. Of course, FD has the problem of getting camped out easily which is why I insist town and city and smashville are best for him. Lumiose city is absolutely incredible for DDD but you never get a chance to use it :C

 

[dean.]

Worth noting that at real low %s weak nair combos into grab. (It's something I see a lot of high level Dededes do but not the lower-level ones and no-one's mentioned it in this thread.) Nair -> dthrow -> bair is a quick 29% to start a stock; nothing special but if you want to push yourself further, maximizing yer punishes is one way to go about that.

Weak nair combos not only when you land with it but also when you rise with it. Falling weak nair -> rising weak nair -> bair is a pretty cute 30% combo ey. I'd like to think there's some way to work weak nair into dthrow combos but I've never really tried ¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

dean. at what angle do you have to hit that weak nair for the grab?

 

[dean.]

Not sure what you mean by angle - if you hit them with weak nair while you're landing, at low %s they just sort of pop up for you to grab them. Works better on fast fallers I guess.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Actually came here to talk about Dedede's nair on platform stages, lol.

If your opponent is standing near the edge of a platform (not necessarily at the edge, but the closer the better), you can clip them with a fastfall nair. I don't have any way of testing this, but it should be pretty safe even if they shield - you can weave around a bit during the nair and if you see them shield fall past the edge of the platform. I'm not sure if there's much most characters can do about it unless they powershield (maybe shield platform drop?), but it's something I've only noticed a couple of times while playing with my friends. Could be useful to know, at the very least.

 

[williamsga555]

Just realized a bit earlier that my claim that Dedede is the only multijumper with a sex kick is wrong. Somehow forgot about Jiggly's nair, which is strange since it's one of her best overall moves. WHOOPS.

 

[Deleted member]

Just realized a bit earlier that my claim that Dedede is the only multijumper with a sex kick is wrong. Somehow forgot about Jiggly's nair, which is strange since it's one of her best overall moves. WHOOPS.

Kirby also had a sex kick in Smash 64.

It was sexy, alright.

 

[Furret]

So with all this said, what are your thoughts on Dedede's neutral air? Do you agree with me on thinking it's a good move? Are there any other applications of it that I haven't listed here that you know of? Discuss!

no mention for fresh nair as a combo starter?
Shame fresh nair is harder to punish on shield, it comes out as one of the landing options I enjoy using.
Nair -> Dtilt (0-10%), Nair -> Jab (10-?%), Nair -> Ftilt (15-20%) all have combo potential below 25%. Jab prob being the best follow up since it allows for jab mix ups into grab