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Why these characters have the same thread

Keep the Bellmonts page together, or separate them?

  • Separate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

KACHOW!!!

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EDIT: I'm leaving this as a testament to my own ignorance and a commitment to improve and learn. Below you'll find a bunch of misinformation, good (albeit fundamentally ignorant) questions, and helpful responses in the comments. The Belmonts (simon and Ricter) are exactly the same in every way

Except for the following quote from NouveauRétro NouveauRétro :

"Simon's Holy Water has the Fire Element
Richter's doesn't
It makes a difference in the Olimar matchup as Red Pikmin are immune to Fire"

ORIGINAL POST:
Let me start by saying this: I'm a super low level player. I barely know anything, but I've tried to be studious where I can about the game, and just understand as much as possible. I'm acknowledging here that everything I'm about to say might be complete hogwash, and I might only have these opinions because I know so little about the game, but the fact that the forums blend clone characters together doesn't make any sense to me, even if the differences in their moves and properties are only slight.

I think it makes sense that they have the same threads now, but it would make more sense as time goes on to separate them. Yeah, they're very similar, but it would only make sense to keep them together if we kept finding that time and again the same combos worked the same way with both characters. My main point is that smashboards is here for people to find new information about smash games, share that information, then improve as a community. It seems illogical to think that people would improve by knowing one thing about a character which is very similar, but not exactly the same as the other. I have a feeling this post will fall on deaf ears, and I don't even think we should separate the threads any time soon, just that we should be open to the possibility that it will be more efficient and effective in the overarching goal of smashboards (which I assume is to help foster and improve a competitive community, which requires acknowledging and engaging with the game's meta, I.E., what will work for Simon might not necessarily be the best course of action for Richter, and vice versa.

The belmont shtick so far seems to be: Simon has the better whip, Richter has the better specials. But doesn't that automatically change the way you're going to play them? Isn't that an automatic admission along the lines of "Hey, we know these two characters are going to have different combos, setups, matchups, and places in the meta, just because of those differences"? Granted, maybe they are so absolutely similar that there's no need to separate them, and I'm not calling for us to separate all the clone characters right now, but I'm posting this because everywhere online seems to lump the bellmonts in smash ultimate into one character, and that just seems crazy for how illogical it is, not to mention the fact that Simon clearly has the better whip, which has more knockback, and the reverse is true of Richter's specials. I don't just think the echo fighters should be separated in the smashboards forums, but everywhere online. It makes more sense to create separate content for separate characters just because yeah, it's easier to lump them together, but since when have people in this community ever preferred 'easy' to 'accurate'? It would be 'easier' not to sit around and figure out exact frame data, move interactions between characters, or to grind tech for hours at a time, but we're smash players. We don't do things because they're 'easy'. We do them because they're 'right' or at least 'optimal' when it comes to improving at the game.

I have the same opinion for what for all the other "Echo Fighters": Lucina, Chrom, Dark Pit, Dark Samus, Ken, & Daisy. I'll be honest, I'm not super familiar with these characters, but from what I've seen it just sounds like a better competitive meta to let them be separated for a while just because the differences in their kits are going to create differences in their gameplan, strategy, and playstyle as the meta evolves. Better to separate them now than to let them get muddled together and just have to separate them later.
 
Last edited:

Idon

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The issue is that Simon and Richter are, actually, exactly the same.
People have done some intensive testing and other than their aesthetic, they are identical.
Characters like Lucina, Chrom, Ken, and Dark Pit actually do have some differences that may sway a person to play one or the other besides the surface level and some of them have their own little thread within the character board. The Belmonts do not.

A separate thread would split the useful info between the two and cause both to be emptier than they otherwise would be conglomerated together like this.
It's effectively like splitting up the community between Olimar and Alph. Nobody really benefits from it.
 

NouveauRétro

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There is one difference known.

Simon's Holy Water has the Fire Element
Richter's doesn't
It makes a difference in the Olimar matchup as Red Pikmin are immune to Fire

Differences like this are nearly trivial so no separating them until some patch comes along and actually differentiates them.
 

IsmaR

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The way we treated the characters in Smash 4 was more or less "Pit/Dark Pit are nearly the same, Marth/Lucina have enough difference to warrant different discussion topics."

If the match-ups are more or less the same outside of one or 2 minute differences, I have no qualms with considering the characters one and the same.

Lowkey, I actually like just referring to them as "Belmont(s)" when referring to them in a general sense, much more than "the Pits/Samii/Princesses."
 

1FC0

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Lowkey, I actually like just referring to them as "Belmont(s)" when referring to them in a general sense, much more than "the Pits/Samii/Princesses."
Peach, Daisy, and Zelda are my favorite echos. We should merge their boards.
 
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