Why isn't short hop its own button?

[MyB]

Asking from a design perspective for Ultimate which is clearly designed to be accessible, and considering that the team went so far as to patch in the jump + jump SH macro, wouldn't it have been easier to simply make a dedicated short hop button? We've had that extra jump button just chillin there since Smash64.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Because short hop is supposed to be a difficult to perform tool that grants specific advantages to the person who has the skill to consistently SH. By taking away the skill aspect of it with a dedicated button, the games competitive edge will require less precise inputs, which I feel would be a down side. Competitive smash shouldn’t be accessible. You have to put hard work into using simple inputs and hard inputs. Compare short hop to IDJ.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It can't be THAT hard to tap the jump button to do a short hop. If you've ever played a 2D platformer, you'll get what I'm saying.

 

[Nah]

Personally I'd love to see a SH button. Never really liked execution barriers, pressing buttons and wiggling sticks is not a skill.

As to why there isn't one, who knows, we can't read the dev's minds and idk if they'd respond to a query on it.

 

[MyB]

Because short hop is supposed to be a difficult to perform tool

Says who? 1. The devs already added a macro for it. 2. Skill checks are important, yes, but one less won't hurt Ultimate, which is already chock full of advanced tech to learn. 3. Ideally, advanced techniques have a higher execution barrier, not bread and butter mechanics that are essential for players of every skill level.

It can't be THAT hard to tap the jump button to do a short hop. If you've ever played a 2D platformer, you'll get what I'm saying.

No, it isn't that hard, but why should it be hard at all? Again, this is a bread and butter, basic mechanic of the game that every player of every skill level needs to play the game. The average player probably SHs more in one match than jab or grab. Something so fundamental that it must be performed dozens of times every match should have its own button. "But wavedashing in Melee" -- well there's a reason Melee is notorious for being inaccessible to new players, and at least it looks like it should be hard to do -- swag moonwalking is your just reward for learning to wavedash consistently. Now compare that to a mini jump. Personally I drop a SH maybe 1/15 times in a real match. When I drop a wavedash in Melee I'm like "Well, I was trying to do some tricky ****". When I drop a SH in any Smash title I'm like "Do I really need to spend more hours developing muscle memory just to get a little jump"? It's just so unnecessary to me.

Imagine: ++ this was the input for grab, and I'm like, "Why not just put it on one button?", and you guys say, "It's not even that hard". Okay, but it's still randomly more difficult than it should be, right?

 

[WaddleKing]

I'd prefer that over the garbage insta short hop attack mechanic they currently have that end up ruining buffered insta full hop attacks. Especially as it hinders some characters like Meta Knight greatly.

 

[Quillion]

I'd rather sacrifice the other jump button for a new "super special" mechanic to give all characters more to do, IMHO.

 

[Lenidem]

I'd sacrifice all available buttons for more taunts.

 

[MyB]

I'd rather sacrifice the other jump button for a new "super special" mechanic to give all characters more to do, IMHO.

I'd love supers to be a part of competitive Smash. Especially if you could do creative combo extensions

 

[MyB]

I wanna be clear that I don't want Smash to be dumbed down or anything. Advanced techniques are awesome. I like skill checks. I often main advanced characters in FGs: Steve Fox in Tekken7, Master Roshi in DBFZ, Nagoriyuki in GG Strive. etc. In MK11 I practiced wavedashing until it was second nature, same for run-cancels in MKX. I'm currently practicing Blue Goku corner loops in DBFZ and I love it. But when designing skill checks, I think you have to ask does this feel rewarding to master, or are you just artificially making a basic action feel cumbersome to the player?

Short Hopping, IMO, is the latter. I don't feel awesome successfully performing short hops. Again, it's just an ultra common, fundamental mechanic of the game. Worse yet, when I accidentally get a full hop, it feels like an inconvenience with the game's controls rather than a fun challenge on the road towards mastering a difficult technique. Here's a dumb but accurate analogy:

WAVEDASHING: a whole new way of getting around. Yeah you're gonna fall on ur face sometimes but it's a blast.

SHORT HOPPING: "walking should be more competitive".

 

[Oddball]

Again, this is a bread and butter, basic mechanic of the game that every player of every skill level needs to play the game. The average player probably SHs more in one match than jab or grab. Something so fundamental that it must be performed dozens of times every match should have its own button.

Either me and most of the people I've played with are far outside of what you consider average or you GREATLY over state how important and common short hopping is. The idea that it's more common than a jab or a grab is laughable.

I think what you're looking at as "average players" falls solely into the "competitive players" category.

 

[MyB]

Oddball hmm, I really think it's true, but to be certain we could narrow down to anyone who is trying to get better at the game. I don't have the statistics obviously, but I feel confident that it's used more often than jab or grab per match. Jabs/grabs require you and your opponent to be grounded and in jab/grab range. Jumping is done almost constantly when not grounded in that range. And short hopping is crucially important; I haven't overstated anything. Short hopping has been absolutely essential (starting at low-intermediate play, maybe?) in every Smash game. Search for any tutorial to get better in Ultimate. It's one of the first things you'll be told to drill, and to keep on drilling until it's second nature.

 

[Quillion]

IMO, I think it would be better if the jumpsquat window was universally 4 frames instead of universally 3 frames. Just play Falco and Fox in Melee and see the difference there.