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Why is online in this game so bad?

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lucasla

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481
I am not even that fussed about the lag. Does it suck, yes, but such is life. I would much rather get to play my rule set every game with a bit of lag over getting thrown into random games with no lag. I came from street fighter 4 and Marvel vs Capcom, as far as i'm aware they used P2P and most of the time it was absolutely fine, except for those few people who lagged it out for everyone involved.

i'm quite sure it's not so much a P2P issue as it is a poor netcode issue and a lack of ethernet cable for every console. I'm sure there's lots of people who have their modem right next to their tv, so even without a lan adapter it would be decent cause the console is right next to the modem, but how many people are playing in their bedrooms when the modem is 3 rooms down with no boosters just lagging everyone else out while the rest of their family is streaming/downloading and god knows what else?

the lag is something that at least we as consumers can partially fix by getting lan adapters ($30 is not an immense investment), the crappy netcode and poor matching system is something that is out of our control.
Most fighting games are P2P, but also, most fighting games are only games of 2 players, 1v1, so they only need to connect 2 players. They also may not have enough players after the initial months of realease to justify the creation of servers. That's not the case of Smash, that is also a 4-player game and is also an active game for Nintendo systems during all the life of the system. 1v1 works fine most of the time, just like any other fighting game, but when you play 2v2 or free-for-all, lag is very present on the P2P system. Looks like the probability of problems grow in exponential way, so, it's fine for 2 players, starts to be bad for 3 players, and have a good probability of having bad connections and be supper lagged with 4 players. That's probably the reason for not having 8 player smash online, while there are server based games out there running perfectly with any amount of players beyond 8, and currently, even 100 players online. And Smash suffers to connect 4 players.
 
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Alsyght

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They could at least correct the stage choice algorithm (or whatever the **** they do) to randomize the initial stage choice and then the loser gets theirs to have a better chance. Then it’s loser’s stage as the rounds go on.

I think that’s fair. ‍♀♀♀
 

AbsyntheMinded

Smash Rookie
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Most fighting games are P2P, but also, most fighting games are only games of 2 players, 1v1, so they only need to connect 2 players. They also may not have enough players after the initial months of release to justify the creation of servers. That's not the case of Smash, that is also a 4-player game and is also an active game for Nintendo systems during all the life of the system. 1v1 works fine most of the time, just like any other fighting game, but when you play 2v2 or free-for-all, lag is very present on the P2P system. Looks like the probability of problems grow in exponential way, so, it's fine for 2 players, starts to be bad for 3 players, and have a good probability of having bad connections and be supper lagged with 4 players. That's probably the reason for not having 8 player smash online, while there are server based games out there running perfectly with any amount of players beyond 8, and currently, even 100 players online. And Smash suffers to connect 4 players.
You're probably right about the 2v2 or ffa. I don't play teams or FFA. They could put in a few dedicated servers for team games specifically to alleviate lag issues for that format. As for people saying the cost and logistics involved in renting server space in all locations would be very expensive for Nintendo. Don't forget they already rent server space just to run their online service and provide download locations for their games purchased through the e-shop and they're forcing you to pay a yearly fee to use it. Again I understand the fee is small, $25 for a year. But if you total the sales of switches (roughly 33 million switches have been bought as reported by IGN!) and say that as few as a third have paid for the online service that is still $275,000,000 worth of revenue from just the online service alone. If that can't buy you some server space to run some dedicated servers then I don't know what will.

What they could also do to fix the lan adapter issue (although they won't) is to just admit that they were wrong and give them away for free to people that have purchases an online service subscription. I Vaguely remember xbox doing this for the 360 about a decade ago now, though feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. They sold some 360 models with almost no internal storage space, saw it was a mistake and offered free external HDs for people with those console upon request. The HDs were small but it was a nice gesture.

They could at least correct the stage choice algorithm (or whatever the **** they do) to randomize the initial stage choice and then the loser gets theirs to have a better chance. Then it’s loser’s stage as the rounds go on.

I think that’s fair. ‍♀♀♀
Although that idea is nice in theory. If i get thrown into a game with regular stage, items and hazards on, I'm not sticking around for a second game. I assume most people who get thrown into a ruleset they don't like will also not stick around for consecutive games.
*edit* Just to clarify, I wouldn't stick around because I don't want to play a game with my rule set against someone who doesn't want to play by those rules. I don't want to force them into it. Mind you, if they knew that is how it worked they wouldn't stick around probably. They'd get their cheese game and then dash on to the next one with fingers crossed that they once again get their ruleset to push through.
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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It's best just to ignore it all. It means nothing. It's just another in a long list of awful design decisions Nintendo made for this game.
I'm curious. What is that "long list" of awful design choices you speak of?
Can't really think of that much stuff off the top of my head that potentially ruins on otherwise good gaming experience.
 
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TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 19, 2016
Messages
394
Just got a penalty for idling, when what actually happened was my wavebird decided to have dead batteries. Least I think that is what happened. Tried to switch them out, but by that time it was too late. Getting really annoyed about online in genera. It's like the Nintendo/Smash execs decided to eat paint chips one day before going to work.
 

lucasla

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It's nice to see some big names on Smash to express their dissatisfaction with the online of the game:

 
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Peashooter405

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Every 1v1 I fought in SSBU always has stutters like crazy? It is so annoying and made most of my opponents salty!



And no,it’s not my internet connection because I can play Smash 3DS,Mario Kart 8 Deluxe,Mario Kart Wii and Splatoon 2 just fine. I can even play 2vs2 and free for all’s fine but for some reason not 1v1s. Please help me.






And no,I don’t wanna buy an Ethernet cable,I already changed MTU to 1500,connection tests and switched between handheld and TV mode.

I can also watch YouTube and Twitch videos in HD just fine.
 

lucasla

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 24, 2018
Messages
481
I also dont know. I remember playing Smash 4 1v1s pretty perfect, I was not able to play 2x2 or free for all cause it always lagged a lot, but now in Ultimate, I feel the game is less responsive even in 1v1. Lag is more present even with two players to me. Most of the time it's still very playable in 1v1, but overral, it's a worse experience than I remember from Smash 4. (And I presume that even less people around me had WiiU's at the time).
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I love smash ultimate, so i really don't want to hate on the game, but the online mode is by far the worst piece of garbage to ever ship with a game period. I don't see how anybody gets enjoyment from it, in most cases i feel time wasted playing this game online would be better spent forcefully banging my head into a concrete wall. To the point where honestly i just try to avoid it. I spend my time in training mode then play a handful of games online and just sigh as i once again get thrown into 1v1 after 1v1 on normal stages with hazards and all items on.

Yes there is anther's and battle arenas if you have the patience, and that is great, woop de doo you can use a third party organized website to bypass the horrible online game mode to find someone who actually wants to play by the same rules as you.

This is a flagship game for the switch, tons of switches were sold specifically for this game. How as a team of developers do you manage to pooch it this hard? Not counting the lag because most people don't have a LAN adapter, what were they thinking? If it was just Sakurai's decision and this was their first ever attempt at it, i could accept it. One man could potentially make an absolutely horrible decision like this and not know how it would play out.
But a whole team of developers, with the benefit of a previous title's online feedback, and literally a million other games online system out there to use as a frame of reference? How in the hell do you come up with this thing and think to yourself "nailed it!"

I liked the person who pointed out rocket league's plethora of game modes and search system. I too play that game and if people queued up for 2v2 hoops in that game and got thrown into 3v3 snowday instead, that game would have withered and died.

for the people defending smash's online game mode. Don't. The argument that if you didn't get your ruleset, at least the other person did so he/she is happy, is not a valid excuse. If I was nintendo I would already be hard at work fixing this, not just fixing, but a complete overhaul of the system. Maybe not in time for 3.0, but at least in time for the next big update after that, and let people know that you saw the error of your ways and will be fixing it. For glory/for fun was better than this.

This online mode just makes it seem like nintendo couldn't care less about what you did after you purchased the game, they got your $80 already. Such a shame for such a great game.

For the people that say, well play in person, it's a social game. That's great. and you have a point, I prefer playing with my friends, but they live an hour away and i can't just drive there to get an hour of playtime in with them every day.
Yep, you nailed it, I agree with everything in this post!

At this point, I don't know if the devs would drastically alter the online modes, but then again, they DID add a pretty substantial new online tourney mode in the last game long after it was released. My somewhat realistic hope is that they simply add "quickplay presets" of 1v1 and 2v2, items off, stages being omega/battlefield? I do like some hazardless stages but then again some of them are still annoying even without hazards.

If they essentially restored the For Glory 1v1 and 2v2 modes, I think nothing else needs to change for those who want to play in any other way. The rest of Quickplay would probably have an easier time grouping up in FFA or item-friendly ways as those who don't want to play that way would not be there anymore, so everyone is happier.
 

lucasla

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Jul 24, 2018
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481
So the problems are the online mode in this game and not me?
Well, I play Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege, PUBG, Fortinite, Call of Duty Black Ops 4, Apex Legends, and any other server based game with no problem at all. Games with player count from 10 to 100. All of them in a wireless network with my PC.
But Smash is special. It can eventually lag in matches with 2 players (but most are playable) and I never had 4 player matches with no lag, these are unplayable. So for online on this game I'm only able to enjoy a fraction of what should be a complete experience. It's that way since the WiiU game for me.

So... with that scenario, no one can convince me it's a problem of my internet or people around me (cause if that was the case, it would still be a problem solved by dedicated servers, not created by who? Oh yeah, Nintendo). And while they blame people for not having LAN adapters or for having bad internet connections connected by their P2P system, all other games in the world are running perfectly, even for that people (is it some kind of magic that is not shared with Nintendo? Or is it just.. investment to ensure quality?).

Actually, in my case, my Switch is connected at my router with a LAN adapter, and it helped me in nothing. I dont know if it just helps to minimize connection oscilation that will actually not happen to me even in wireless because my Switch is already at the side of my router, pretty close, so it would never solve a problem that not happens to me. Or if it's just because everyone playing this game doesnt have LAN adapters. Or if even having LAN adapters, the connection would still be bad for some reason... (this is a question that I really would like to know the answer).

So I gave up on trying to figure out what is the problem and because any other game in the world works, I really just blame Nintendo, or the development team of the game, for not doing the same as the others.
 
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Mental Surge

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So I just played stamina mode with max items. On Elite Smash. Why is this game popular again?

I'm curious. What is that "long list" of awful design choices you speak of?
Can't really think of that much stuff off the top of my head that potentially ruins on otherwise good gaming experience.
Hmmmmmmm maybe the fact that you can join a 4 player FFA with max items in elite smash? The fact that you can get stages with hazards in Elite smash? The fact you can choose not to rematch someone and then queue up again and then immediately get the same person, the fact that the game doesnt always remember your control setup even if you have it selected, the fact that it doesnt remember your skin preference, the focus on projectile spamming (seriously AT LEAST half the roster has to be made up of zoning characters that can get away with just running away and spamming ****), in player matches you can't search for lobbies with no stage hazards or team attack on/off, etc. But you CAN search for lobbies that have spirits enabled. Lol? How about Elite Smash games going to sudden death even if you have a massive percent lead? How about having to unlock 60+ characters one at a time? And the fact that the order in which you unlock them is basically random? Why can I not queue for team battle with a friend online? Seriously there's no excuse for not having that.
Or how about the fact that killing off the top requires you to sit and watch their death animation, instead of just giving you the kill immediately. This means that if the time is running out and you manage to kill them you can screwed over by being forced to wait for them to die.
 
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Alsyght

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Jun 20, 2018
Messages
245
Not being able to clear the after-battle menu with B or Start, only being limited to the A button; not being able to change your characters after a match against a person you still wanna with; being limited to arenas if you don’t like online because they’re too lazy to fix everything; not being able to quit without being banned; still not getting my stage presence over others.
 

Johhny_C_Bad

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Mar 29, 2019
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12
i dunno man i just go to quickplay and it's generally okay, I get like 2-3 matches a night where someone is playing with two stocks or something but yeah i guess it is still pretty bad
 

Coolboy

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anyone still gets communication errors during matches even though your internet connection is fine even on the switch? i still get them.. and then i get such a lovely half hour ban for something that is not even my nor my internet connection's fault.... -.-
 

TheDuke54

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Apr 19, 2016
Messages
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I got them three times maybe when I first started complaining about them, but other then that no. I've just been getting lucky.

I do however get everything but my preference most times. I do free for all no items, but it will usually give me free for all items, ffa cheesed items, sometimes what I asked for, other times team battle no items (I'm ok with that when my teammate isn't just dying off at the start and taking all my stocks, which happens more then I'd like to admit) cheesed items on team, and occasionally the stamina battle with 1 stock or 3 with flags on high. Find that way too often now.

It doesn't give me 1v1 that much. I sometimes get it, but most times I don't. So at least it isn't completely random. And I've also noticed a ton of lag as of late. Like at least when preferences were so random and you never got what you wanted it at least didn't lag to kingdom come. Now it does so on every so match for me.

Almost everyone bails when they lose their last stock so you have to endure a endless loading ball and hope you don't get kicked as well. Didn't notice this as much but now it is really prevalent. It's also annoying that you can't just have a stock battle, it still is timed. I wish you could take the time limit off altogether. So many players just run around forever until the clock runs out. It can guarantee them a victory, but god is it so boring.

There was one battle, which I mentioned before somewhere here, about having a FFA fight on Magicant. Literally the other 3 picked one of the clouds at the right, left, or bottom and just tried to spam projectiles at me or attack from above from the bottom cloud. That's all they did and I tried to take the fight to them and did well, but I ended up losing my last stock when they all had one left. What did they do when I was out of the picture? Nothing. They jumped and sometimes tried to throw an attack or projectile every ten seconds, but were too afraid to even do that. Gsp is the worst system ever. And there was like 4 to 5 minutes left to that match.
 

Coolboy

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i recently began using preferences as well cause i got to much what i didn't want, i have FFA 3 stocks and items on but i honestly don't care if the items are off, but i literally had to ragequit 1 match cause they had these cheesy S items showing up every 10 seconds that gave you a extra stock and of course they kept getting it but making sure i couldn't get it.. yeah that angered me..these types of things i just can't play without losing my cool,

but what i hate most is when in FFA when 3 players are left 2 literally picks on you and refuse to attack each other, this i will ragequit for as well cause they do not deserve points for that in my point of view and in those cases i will gladly take that half hour ban.
 
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Sucumbio

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i recently began using preferences as well cause i got to much what i didn't want, i have FFA 3 stocks and items on but i honestly don't care if the items are off, but i literally had to ragequit 1 match cause they had these cheesy S items who gave you extra life and of course they kept getting it but making sure i couldn't get it.. yeah that angered me..these types of things i just can't play without losing my cool
Items on, tho? Any particular reason you elect to play that way or are you just not playing Smash competitively?
 
D

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The only time I *enjoy* FFA games are with my friends and we're doing 6-8 players. Then it's just crazy chaos and it also helps mask the fact that I'm better than everyone (I play the game way more, and I don't want to be hated for always winning or something).

But whatever, I guess people have their preferences (unless they neglect to turn them on. Makes me wonder just how many players don't set their preferences and turn off items or whatnot).
 

TheDuke54

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I don't mind items, just to be clear. I usually have it set to no items because I usually end up in an item match where it's either pokemon balls, assist trophies, flags, smash balls on high. And that's just not fun. I don't mind if I play friends doing that, but even then it gets old if they want to do a handful of matches that way.

No one finds dodging Rathalos or Tiki, when they show up, as fun. If you do, you're probably on the giving end. Even when I would grab one of the assists and watch my opponent frantically dodge one of those huge assists on 'a cheese match they created and are failing at' I can't enjoy it. Just doesn't feel like I deserve the win whether it's leisurely or competitive.

I do enjoy playing matches with items. So long as it's the default set up and everything is listed. Then that's fine by me because it's based on luck if a pokemon ball or assist shows up. Smash is enjoyable to play both for fun and competitively.
 
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Coolboy

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Items on, tho? Any particular reason you elect to play that way or are you just not playing Smash competitively?
no special reason, i am a player who just likes variety, 1 moment i want to play FFA without items, and maybe another time i just want to do team matches and so on, i do 1v1 as well but 1v1 is not as fun to me as FFA and team matches,
i am just proud of myself that i am still capable of winning 1v1 matches, lets just say i had a few bad days with those some weeks ago where i just kept losing all the 1v1 matches i had even though i wasn't doing bad and it was usually a even match but i had the bad luck of not being able to give the finishing blow >.<

I don't mind items, just to be clear. I usually have it set to no items because I usually end up in an item match where it's either pokemon balls, assist trophies, flags, smash balls on high. And that's just not fun. I don't mind if I play friends doing that, but even then it gets old if they want to do a handful of matches that way.

No one finds dodging Rathalos or Tiki, when they show up, as fun. If you do, you're probably on the giving end. Even when I would grab one of the assists and watch my opponent frantically dodge one of those huge assists on 'a cheese match they created and are failing at' I can't enjoy it. Just doesn't feel like I deserve the win whether it's leisurely or competitive.

I do enjoy playing matches with items. So long as it's the default set up and everything is listed. Then that's fine by me because it's based on luck if a pokemon ball or assist shows up. Smash is enjoyable to play both for fun and competitively.
yeah i agree, with to much of the same items it can really get more annoying then fun, while ironically the people with poke balls/assist trophies rules usually pick fast characters..and i know exactly why they do this...they want that item fast! xD
maaaaaan i am capable of dodging Rathalos with Daisy/Peach but with either other character it's just annoying and Tiki seems impossible to avoid...
 

Predatoria

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I've now recorded, doing Ranked Matchmaking 1v1s, 126 total matches and encountered 75 unique players. My ruleset is 3 stock, max time, omega stages, no items, no stage hazards.



Unacceptable match conditions that cause me not to rematch:

I have had exactly zero matches with items on. 0%

I have had exactly zero stamina matches. 0%

I have never been placed into a team or free for all match. 0%

I've never been placed on a map with stage hazards enabled. 0%

7 of my total 126 matches were laggy, or, 5.56%, which prompted me not to rematch.



Acceptable match conditions that are not my exact ruleset:

I occasionally get placed in matches with different time settings or with 2 stocks instead of 3.

I occasionally get placed on flat stages instead of omega, or onto final destination or battlefield.




I really don't know what you all are complaining about to be honest. 100% of my matches were ones that either abided by my ruleset exactly, or were close enough to where I considered it acceptable and did not mind the deviation. 94.44% of my matches I would consider "good," as in I had no reason to complain about the match conditions. The only offending factor was an occasional laggy connection I got paired against. According to my actual data, online really isn't as bad as this thread suggests.
 
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TheDuke54

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Well that's good and I wish that was the same for everyone, but it clearly is not. I still get matched with items on a lot of the times when I ask for it not to be. And I wouldn't care if it was all items, but most times it's a cheesed match.

Since you choose 1v1 all or most of the time it probably helps you with that. Free for all and team battles will have more preferences to slew through.
 

Coolboy

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I really don't know what you all are complaining about to be honest. 100% of my matches were ones that either abided by my ruleset exactly, or were close enough to where I considered it acceptable and did not mind the deviation. 94.44% of my matches I would consider "good," as in I had no reason to complain about the match conditions. The only offending factor was an occasional laggy connection I got paired against. According to my actual data, online really isn't as bad as this thread suggests.
that you have good experiences doesn't mean we all do >.>
when i decided to put my preferences on lets say i go with my current 1, FFA, 3 stocks, max minutes, any stage

i still get team matches, what i just at that moment did not want, i like it so i play it with some motivation but still i wasn't in the mood for it,
or instead of 3 stocks i get timed matches also something i didn't want at that time
but the worst 1 is i still got 1v1 matches between them for real!

so what about this is all good? i don't see anything good about getting stuff i didn't asked for at all.
 
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Predatoria

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Well that's good and I wish that was the same for everyone, but it clearly is not. I still get matched with items on a lot of the times when I ask for it not to be. And I wouldn't care if it was all items, but most times it's a cheesed match.

Since you choose 1v1 all or most of the time it probably helps you with that. Free for all and team battles will have more preferences to slew through.
It may very well be because I am queuing with a common ruleset that many other players seeking competitive 1v1s are also selecting.

I will admit when I do 2v2s with a friend, we do frequently get matches with stage hazards or items on. It's very likely the game has a smaller matchmaking pool available, and there's an optimization algorithm running on some server somewhere doing its best to try and manage player pairing against wait times.

I'd personally rather wait several minutes for a match with my desired ruleset (or close to it) over waiting 10 seconds to get into a match with very undesirable properties and just play training mode while I wait.
 

Predatoria

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that you have good experiences doesn't mean we all do >.>
when i decided to put my preferences on lets say i go with my current 1, FFA, 3 stocks, max minutes, any stage

i still get team matches, what i just at that moment did not want, i like it so i play it but still i wasn't in the mood for it,
or instead of 3 stocks i get timed matches also something i didn't want at that time
but the worst 1 is i still got 1v1 matches between them for real!

so what about this is all good? i don't see anything good about getting stuff i didn't asked for at all.
Are you queuing quickplay or ranked matchmaking. There is a difference, and I'm tempted to prove it via data collection.

The difference is, Quickplay will optimize player wait times over rulesets. Ranked Matchmaking will optimize skewing towards finding a match with your ruleset (or close to it), which may sacrifice wait times. I've found queue times to be so short there really is no reason not to select Ranked Matchmaking.
 

lucasla

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Are you queuing quickplay or ranked matchmaking. There is a difference, and I'm tempted to prove it via data collection.

The difference is, Quickplay will optimize player wait times over rulesets. Ranked Matchmaking will optimize skewing towards finding a match with your ruleset (or close to it), which may sacrifice wait times. I've found queue times to be so short there really is no reason not to select Ranked Matchmaking.
You have 7% of laggy matches on 1v1, good for you. I have 20% of laggy matches in 1v1 and 100% of laggy matches in 2v2 or 1v3.
 
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AbsyntheMinded

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Mar 6, 2019
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Are you queuing quickplay or ranked matchmaking. There is a difference, and I'm tempted to prove it via data collection.

The difference is, Quickplay will optimize player wait times over rulesets. Ranked Matchmaking will optimize skewing towards finding a match with your ruleset (or close to it), which may sacrifice wait times. I've found queue times to be so short there really is no reason not to select Ranked Matchmaking.
by ranked matchmaking, I assume you mean background matchmaking. Don't be fooled, it is still just quickplay. As for your tests, good for you that you got all games you wanted. However many people are not, and to say a certain % of not your ruleset games is fine. It isn't, there isn't a single other game out there that just dumps you into random game modes other than the one you select to play. Also understand that the higher your gsp, the more likely you are to find other people playing with comp settings (3 stock, 7 mins, omega or battlefield) but a lot of people (some 4 million odd) are not in elite smash and they are left in ****ville.

I did background matchmaking today just to test the differences. my preferred settings are 3 stock, 7 minutes, omega, no items. Obviously battlefield games are acceptable to me, but this is just to prove a point.

i played 10 games (not counting rematches that had my preferred settings) 3 of which had normal stages with hazards on but regular stocks, 1 had battlefield but 1 stock with all items on. 1 was battlefield 3 stocks 3 minutes, 2 were battlefield, 3 stocks and 5 to 7 minutes. only 3 were omega, 3 stocks 7 minutes.

Don't misunderstand me, i know this is a small sample size but it does go to show that the system is garbage regardless. Basically if I find a 3 stocks 7 minute battlefield or omega game against a better or similarly matched opponent, I tend to rematch that person until they no longer want to. Purely because I know it's at least a rule set I enjoy, even if i get stomped into the ground repeatedly. As opposed to random troll kids' garbage fest rules, chosen purely to spite and or cheese people.

The system is flawed and does need to be defended in any way shape or form. If they want to stick with these preferred rules instead of a clean break into for fun/for glory modes, then they need to change the way preferred rules work. Add a checkbox that lets you choose whether you are willing to play against other rule sets. That way those who don't care can play against every one, and those who only want to play their rule set will never be matched against other rules. Short of this, the only other option is to make a priority system for the rules. A priority system that the player chooses, mind. Not nintendo.

you rate whatever is most important to you from 1 to 5, 1 to 3 being non-negotiable, you will never be matched with people who use different rules here. 4 to 5, you may be matched with people who have different rules for these, BUT, a pop-up will show up saying that these people are not using your rule set and you get the chance to cancel the match before it even starts. You will not get to see which character they use until you accept so no one has the ability to simple opt out of bad match ups
 
D

Deleted member

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I will admit when I do 2v2s with a friend, we do frequently get matches with stage hazards or items on. It's very likely the game has a smaller matchmaking pool available, and there's an optimization algorithm running on some server somewhere doing its best to try and manage player pairing against wait times.
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING we have a winner! I'm so happy you figured it out. When you only need to match your ruleset with 1 other person, of course you'll get the rules you want most of the time. In fact, as soon as someone joins the battle can begin!
If you're wanting to do anything other than 1v1, the Quickplay system is flawed and you will not get the matches you want. Not only are you now trying to match your rules with 3 times as many people, but the game may start before enough people have even joined for a team battle or 4 player FFA. I said it before, and I'll say it again: If you're preferring 1v1 in Quickplay, why are you even here. Of course you have nothing to complain about. Guess what though? Not everyone wants to play 1v1. Savvy?
by ranked matchmaking, I assume you mean background matchmaking. Don't be fooled, it is still just quickplay.
You are correct, and I don't know why he keeps referring to background matchmaking as ranked matchmaking. It's Quickplay in the background, and from my experience makes no difference. Even though I want a team battle, background matchmaking will still jump the gun and start a match with 2 or 3 people after only searching for 30 seconds. Utterly worthless.
 

Smartz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
42
Alright here are my two cents on this whole argument.

The online system is god awful... I originally tried to say something positive about it because the thread has been a bit negative but yeah, I got nothing... I really hate the input lag. I can't play the game because of the input lag. I generally play very floaty / fast paced with Ness. I literally can't do that online because when I PSI Magnet double jump cancel to try and bait them to move, 90% I end up falling into them and just getting punished hard because I'm sitting in front of them using PSI Magnet standing still. Granted most of the time their ping also prevents them to react properly but when they do react and I know I did the correct inputs it just annoys me. I also feel that the online can be 10x better if they just use a server.

I've heard that they won't do this because "it would take to long" and to be honest I'd rather the online system be down for two weeks than play like this for the rest of Ultimate's existence. It's just plain awful to have to try force myself to play. I will say the good that has come out of is that I go to locals now and have met some pretty sick people. If you do play competitively and hate the online I do encourage you to go find some locals and play in them. It's super fun and I really enjoy it.
 

lucasla

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
481
There are some simple solutions that would already make the online experience much better...

Option 1:
option 1.jpg


Option 2:
option 2.jpg


Option 3:
option 3.jpg

(to hell with GSP)

Option 4:
option 4.jpg

(pay for some of these)
 
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PSIPher

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
8
Alright here are my two cents on this whole argument.

The online system is god awful... I originally tried to say something positive about it because the thread has been a bit negative but yeah, I got nothing... I really hate the input lag. I can't play the game because of the input lag. I generally play very floaty / fast paced with Ness. I literally can't do that online because when I PSI Magnet double jump cancel to try and bait them to move, 90% I end up falling into them and just getting punished hard because I'm sitting in front of them using PSI Magnet standing still. Granted most of the time their ping also prevents them to react properly but when they do react and I know I did the correct inputs it just annoys me. I also feel that the online can be 10x better if they just use a server.

I've heard that they won't do this because "it would take to long" and to be honest I'd rather the online system be down for two weeks than play like this for the rest of Ultimate's existence. It's just plain awful to have to try force myself to play. I will say the good that has come out of is that I go to locals now and have met some pretty sick people. If you do play competitively and hate the online I do encourage you to go find some locals and play in them. It's super fun and I really enjoy it.
I feel your pain on that one. You absolutely have to adjust your timings on the DJC PSI Magnet when playing online to compensate for the lag. And then you have to re-adjust them all over again when you go back to playing locally.

It's like two games in one!

Personally, I found setting my TV to 'Game Mode' helped a bit, made it feel a little more responsive. The game colours do look a bit washed out afterwards, but better that than a game you don't feel you're in control of.
 

PSIPher

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
8
There are some simple solutions that would already make the online experience much better...

Option 1:
View attachment 204821

Option 2:
View attachment 204822

Option 3:
View attachment 204827
(to hell with GSP)

Option 4:
View attachment 204825
(pay for some of these)
Heh, nice work on those screens. I agree with your suggestions.

For me, Quickplay / Elite Smash are totally unviable. And they're desolate too. Over here, 'Elite Smash = no opponents'.

This week, I picked the game up again and gave the battle arenas a try, and had more success at least in terms of getting an acceptable ruleset and less lag. I usually create one myself and put 'ethernet' in the arena name to try and attract other players with a similar set-up.

The biggest problem is that the arenas do crash a lot, usually at match start-up, by which time it's too late to advise the other players over the chat feature that you'll set-up another which they can rejoin. I also don't like the way that you have barely any time to move your character token between matches - say, from 'spectator' to 'play queue'. So you have to quit spectating for one match just to get your token where you want it. As with so much of this game, I just don't see any evidence that the developers have sat down and put themselves in a player's shoes and thought to themselves what options the player might want, what their frustrations might be, and then developed the corresponding, corrective functionality.

But, yes, this is the best online option in my view - it upgraded my online experience from 'appalling' to the dizzy heights of 'poor'.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,149
Location
Icerim Mountains
There are some simple solutions that would already make the online experience much better...

Option 1:
View attachment 204821

Option 2:
View attachment 204822

Option 3:
View attachment 204827
(to hell with GSP)

Option 4:
View attachment 204825
(pay for some of these)
Option 2 would be cool...
(with Battlefield and Omega selectable at the same time)
Thing is we know that the matchmaking system prioritizes connection quality over ruleset so those that have super specific rules are likely to just wait for ungodly long amounts of time to get a match.
 

Coolboy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
382
Location
Netherlands
i can't believe i would ever say this but even Splatoon 2 online is better then Smash online!
if your switch got a good internet connection then with Splatoon 2 you can be sure of it you won't have any issues and the best of it..NO LAG!!!! and this game is played with 8 players btw
but smash & good internet? it doesn't matter cause they will kick you out of matches anyway or just give you lag >.>
 

TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
394
Splatoon doesn't need all 8 players to be queued with a proper connection. The game can still run smoothly if someone is lagging or gets kicked. I know I've had plenty of games on Splatoon (back when I used to play it) where one or more of my teammates dced. Of course you still lose terribly, but at least the game plays as it should.

They can't do that with a fighter game. It would just look weird if your opponent was standing still and not taking any damage as you wailed on them. Which is why I've said it many times here and other places, online needs a color coded ping. If your opponent is coded red, it means you probably shouldn't match them. Unless you don't mind the game lagging to a crawl and or getting kicked with an hour penalty. And green of course meaning you're good to go.

I've heard that they won't do this because "it would take to long" and to be honest I'd rather the online system be down for two weeks than play like this for the rest of Ultimate's existence.
Which might not be that much longer, by how flawed everything is. I could write an huge list why this game is so messed up. And I just found out another thing that people can't do is have 2 players online. Two of my friends who happen to be siblings wanted to join our friend arena match and they had to just take turns. What is this crap?

I wouldn't be surprised if this game dies in a year if they don't start getting their act together. Only a few are praising online. Lately when I match up with people I keep finding the same people. I will leave and boom there they are again. You mean to tell me there's only one free for all match going on in the entire lobby?

And it will be the same people who cheesed a match that was boring and annoying. And I can't leave that, because I will be penalized. Smash4 gave you a grace window to leave.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
Can we try getting some second opinions from outside Smashboards? It sounds like an echo chamber in here. Remember that Nintendo is Japanese and can't help but base their decisions on Japanese sensibilities; the opinions of foreign markets aren't worthless, but, well, the foreign markets aren't what's on their doorstep. I've heard that Japan's online infrastructure and general social cohesion is leaps and bounds above that of the United States. For all we know, Ultimate's online functions roughly as intended (read: is actually playable) in Japan (as opposed to the absolute pile of steaming garbage everyone here perceives it as).

As for me, I haven't had any issues with online aside from constantly getting bodied, which I just chalk up to being not very good at the game.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
The reason I keep hammering my views here is that I'm hoping someone somewhere at Nintendo pays attention. To be honest the people in the Nintendo Treehouse seem very well informed on what the views, feelings and opinions are of fans and gamers generally--they seem very much in the loop. What I don't know is where they are hanging out--here? Twitter? Reddit? I don't use Twitter but I tried posting something on Reddit about Smash's online and it was downvoted to obscurity, so I guess they just didn't want to hear it over there.
After that, I have no idea whether our opinions could even make it beyond Nintendo Treehouse and into the ears of those actually making games at Nintendo, or Sakurai's team in this case. Perhaps not. Perhaps they only pay attention to sales numbers. Smash Ultimate has sold well so they may be thinking "We've done everything perfectly with the game, no need to fix anything" essentially.

I know other game studios have reacted when there was backlash from fans and gamers, but I just don't know what needs to be done here. Apparently, even though the online in Smash Ultimate is horrendously flawed, the majority of people don't care or are okay with it? No one else seems to be talking about it other than here on SmashBoards so I guess this is just how it is?
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
The reason I keep hammering my views here is that I'm hoping someone somewhere at Nintendo pays attention. To be honest the people in the Nintendo Treehouse seem very well informed on what the views, feelings and opinions are of fans and gamers generally--they seem very much in the loop. What I don't know is where they are hanging out--here? Twitter? Reddit? I don't use Twitter but I tried posting something on Reddit about Smash's online and it was downvoted to obscurity, so I guess they just didn't want to hear it over there.
After that, I have no idea whether our opinions could even make it beyond Nintendo Treehouse and into the ears of those actually making games at Nintendo, or Sakurai's team in this case. Perhaps not. Perhaps they only pay attention to sales numbers. Smash Ultimate has sold well so they may be thinking "We've done everything perfectly with the game, no need to fix anything" essentially.

I know other game studios have reacted when there was backlash from fans and gamers, but I just don't know what needs to be done here. Apparently, even though the online in Smash Ultimate is horrendously flawed, the majority of people don't care or are okay with it? No one else seems to be talking about it other than here on SmashBoards so I guess this is just how it is?
That's exactly it... I feel like it's likely that most people don't care.
 
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