Why is Duck Hunt not higher on the tier list?

[Mini_Mac]

okay, so I wrote up a thread similar to this one on Bowser's forum about why Bowser isn't higher on the tier list and as of now, I'm trying to understand why Duck Hunt isn't higher as well. Here is why I'm asking this.

FYI, maybe it is too early in the meta and many people don't yet know how to beat him since not a lot of people play him or play against him. If I'm making any mistakes in my playstyle as I describe it below, let me know.

There are so many times where I struggle against a good Duck Hunt. I honestly don't understand why he isn't at least top 20. The reason for that is because almost every time I fight against Duck Hunt:

1. He has endless keep away options with his special moves.
2. Approaching him is a nightmare since he can spam the frisbee and since the frisbee has multiple hit boxes, he has enough time to approach while I'm in shield to grab me.
3. He has so many tools to keep his opponent from ledge guarding like the gunman and the can.
4. His run speed is above average making it relatively difficult to chase him down unless you're Mac, Falcon, or Sonic.
5. His smash attacks are powerful with long distance.
6. His throws combo into other aerials.
7. When I'm offstage with whatever character, he has a lot of pressure potential with his frisbee and his can.
8. Finally, when I'm doing crap like infinite jabs with some characters, he is able to break out of it with the jank can.

And TBH, he is EXTREMELY challenging in keeping track of. When DH is in a position to camp and sometimes when he is offstage, he literally just throws out projectile after projectile and keeping my focus on him and him alone is an absolute chore compared to the rest of the cast.

So yeah. Does DH have any significant weaknesses other than an exploitable recovery and why is he so low on the tier list when my experience fighting him seems to reveal otherwise? Maybe is it that people just don't have enough experience fighting with him or against him? What are your guy's thoughts?

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Their perceived lack of KO power is a likely reason they are placed fairly low. For example, his smashes are all but unreliable since they are all easily SDI'd and possess slow recovery frames. D-air spikes but it is a bit slow with pretty **** ending/landing lag though it auto-cancels.

Aside from that, SSB Wiki provides a good explanation. It also helps to see tournament results on .

 

[MERPIS]

Their perceived lack of KO power is a likely reason they are placed fairly low. For example, his smashes are all but unreliable since they are all easily SDI'd and possess slow recovery frames. D-air spikes but it is a bit slow with pretty **** ending/landing lag though it auto-cancels.

Aside from that, SSB Wiki provides a good explanation. It also helps to see tournament results on .

Give that dog a hoo hah combo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Wild Gunman special move is also part of the blame for the lack of reliable KO moves, as it was never made to be an actual KO maker.

 

[WolfmanDeerek]

Duckhunt's recovery is very exploitable, seeing how it has no attack attached to it and moves slowly. This makes low recoveries a death sentence against some of the other lower tier characters.

In my experience he also doesn't deal well with rushdown. Out of shield options are very limited. Throws don't lead to many reliable combo options. Not sure about kill confirms but they seem non existant. His approach is rather predictable. Hide behind a wall until the opponent is so full of rage that they can end you if they hit hard.

I still love the character though. It's satisfying to get victories with such an underdog.

 

[Mini_Mac]

Lol! But even then, despite his lack of reliable kill confrims and KO potential, it goes either way in tons of MUs because his defensive game is so crazy.

Let me explain it like this. Characters like have an issue of potentially dying around 10-40% after making one tiny mistake because his recovery is so bad but at the same time, 's opponents also have the potential to die around 10-40% against him because he has a zero-to-death that kills almost all of the cast (it's hard to land on floaties) at 0% (Dtilt -> Dtilt -> KO Punch).
And I would agree that he has a difficult time against rushdown characters like , , , , , and sometimes (speed monondo) but even against those characters, he still has that frisbee mechanic that is used when trying to land that he throws out forcing the opponent to shield and then it's many hitboxes give him enough time to get a grab. Maybe it's just the fact that as the meta for the game is expanding, people tend to be more diverse in their character choices so it's probably just a matter of gitting gud (lol) against and learning the MU better. Ever since I got the game in October of 2015, playing against in tourney, FG, and friendlies has been very uncommon. The only one more uncommon than for me is .

 

[WolfmanDeerek]

I understand. Seeing either of them is rare. I mained Duckhunt for a good while in the beginning. Playing behind the wall against pointed spacing and constant pressure is alot more intense than close matches with characters with more kill power. Just from my own experiences.

Link and samus wall quicker and have tethers. They also have better tilt options.

High stakes matches usually become very read based. Bait and switch. That's where it gets difficult. In the end when they understand all of Duckhunt's limitations physically and aerially as well as not fearing kos before 100%, if they can get past your wall they will walk all over you. It takes playing really careful if the enemy deals well with your zoning.

Many characters can zone quicker and even make using your tools a struggle. Mario's fire ball breaks up can and clay pigeon momentum well. I mean it can utterly shut down certain rhythms.

G dorf can dash attack through it all. He can down right harass Duckhunt. I have both done it and had it done to me.

Diddy vs Duckhunt is a bleeding nightmare because of his monkey flip and agility plus his d tilt to smash can mess you up quick. He out frames and out punishes. He gets in super fast if you telegraph anything.

So many characters have these little ways to exploit duckhunt's endlag on several of his tools. It makes the wall necessary and thus leads to established behavior traits because Duckhunt has to try harder to earn a stock in many cases. This makes the match last longer and givrs the opponent more time to learn you and set traps.

Have to mention how charizard can fb into you while you kick the can, hiting with both his flare blitz and the can for ridiculously quick stocks.

Again, this is my own experience. I've lost alot of matches from my opponents figuring out something they could land. Watching my losses I've come to recognise where they figured something out. Sometimes they have it figured out right away, perfect spacing and fast punishes with good fox trot grabs.

It all makes blind picking Duckhunt scary.

 

[MERPIS]

It also doesn't help that Mewtwo, Cloud, and Sheik are all extremely prominent in the current Meta, these 3 are probably DH's worst MU's.

 

[WolfmanDeerek]

Fighting Samus reminds me of the nightmare Mewtwo can be. I think Samus is, at best, out of DH's favor. It might just be my own lack of understanding how to not get out walled and punished constantly. Sometimes when I blind pick Duckhunt and see Samus I feel like unplugging my controller and walking out.

 

[Nebbyla]

his worst match up is probably cloud, maybe mewtwo, and i would say that most of his MUs are unfavorable.

 

[Jmon101]

In my humble opinion, I don't really struggle with fox, sheik or cloud, unless I get outplayed. Bayo on the other hand... Impossible. Her bullet arts just shut down can completely, which I use to get confirms. It's too hard.