Why is CPU Fox so broken?

[Jacuzzi]

Like, why did they program Fox (and Falco, but mostly Fox) to be wayyy much harder/annoying to play against? I mean, I know it's a computer, but CPU Fox literally waveshines you across the stage, camps lasers, then USmashes the whole game. I can beat any other CPU fairly easy, but this is just insane, lmfao. And I don't think it's the match ups, either, because no matter what character I play I get straight rekt (I play mainly Lucario and Falco, but also Falcon, Ganon, Sheik, Wolf, Lucas, Marth, Roy, and Ike), lmaoo.

 

[Miryafa]

This'll help

 

[meebius]

If you know what the CPU is going to do, then you shouldn't get hit

 

[Miryafa]

If you know what the CPU is going to do, then you shouldn't get hit

I would like to see a video of this. I eventually played a game where I didn't get hit by ICs, but it took about 200 attempts, had almost nothing to do with knowing what they would do, and instead was because I made safe attacks.

It might be true, but it also might be the case that the Fox AI applies enough pressure that not getting hit isn't possible.

 

[meebius]

I would like to see a video of this. I eventually played a game where I didn't get hit by ICs, but it took about 200 attempts, had almost nothing to do with knowing what they would do, and instead was because I made safe attacks.

It might be true, but it also might be the case that the Fox AI applies enough pressure that not getting hit isn't possible.

It's nigh impossible to avoid the SHDL, so there's nothing you can do about that other than trying to take as little percentage as possible

However, Fox's CPU is super exploitable to the point where it's funny
- It will SHDL until you input an apporach
- when you approach it will either drill waveshine you into an upsmash or just read your input and do an upsmash
- when it has its back facing you, it will shine back air
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUKbhjLQGtI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUKbhjLQGtI
Because of snake's mine being read as an attack, Fox's AI tries to avoid it at all costs

 

[KingClubber]

@OP

That fox was built to win, even if he doesn't do much of that.
Heck I got praise from Strong_Bad when i first presented that fox.

 

[RomeDogg]

KingClubber where do we find you? lol

 

[Miryafa]

@OP

That fox was built to win, even if he doesn't do much of that.
Heck I got praise from Strong_Bad when i first presented that fox.

You made that Fox? Nice! If you make another, can you have it multishine 45 times as a taunt, just to poke fun at Westballz record? Although it should perhaps be Falco doing that...

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Level 9 Fox literally has no combo di....none.....you can do anything and expect either super good survival di or none whatsoever. Try chaingrabbing him with marth to see what I mean. Its just straight up and straight back down. (Combo in training mode to see what I mean without actually having to dealing with him yet if you can't. If you want a really dumb death combo that only works on level 9 fox in the ditto on like yoshi's and PS2 get a grab around 65 upthrow then uair super quickly. Land, L-cancel, Jump, double jump and then uair. He should die around like 95...just try it...its dumb....and it's a true 8 hit combo.)

He is actually really easy to play against because his habits are so strange but repeatable and exploitable. If he shines you from in front he will try to waveshine 3 times or to the edge of stage then upsmash. Shine from the back and you get three waveshines then a bair. Funny enough its great on people you fall to shine and people who go like nowhere from a waveshine. Marth is out after the first shine cause fox doesn't go far enough. He's not even that good at uthrow uair. You should probably get the 20xx guys on that. That would be amazingly terrifying. The only annoying thing that is really good is the laser camp. But that was nerfed anyway from melee so.....we good. He doesn't sweet spot well....Like at all....ever. He can't ledgedash that well and if he does he doesn't do anything with it.

Now if you really want to have a hard time. Play a spacie against falco....... Bruhhhhh. The way falco was put together to rack up damage, especially against spacies, is disgusting. Just perfect height lasers if you don't approach or try to camp him out. Shine into aerial everywhere. (So if you miss any DI its about 25 damage at a time.) Waveshine punishes to bair or dair. RAR Autocancel (I think) bair approaches. Perfect sweetspots and quick ledgedashes. Plus uthrow combos.....like really?? why??? And worst of all is he has good DI too...so you kinda have to try to combo him....like it hurts playing against him sometimes in the ditto. The only random thing is that sometime he'll just go into westballlz mode and do 10 multishines....mid stock...like no reason too. (Gets grab. Back throws to centerstage. Proceeds to multishine) I tried competing with him once I saw him start a random one in neutral. He won at 9 and then went on....to 17. Turns out he's pretty good at them. They are also frame perfect (meaning he gets out on the first possible frame of shine) with actually makes it really hard to punish without a disjoint funny enough. And if he hits you he just continues as if the hitlag didn't mess him up, cause....it didn't.

Falco has two really exploitable habits though. Unlike Fox who rarely ever sweetspots, falco goes for it like 95% of the time and will use whatever angle of firebird can hit that also taking the stage into consideration. He also side b's at perfect sweetspot height most of the time. Only thing i haven't seen him do is shorten but I haven't play 3.6 yet so maybe he does now. So an easy way to beat him is to just hit him off stage, grab ledge, and then roll when you see him move towards ledge. The other weird habit is that falco seems to also love playing off the the ledge....like alot....like just a bunch of ledge hop bairs and dairs for like no reason. Enough that he goes through the 5 invincible refreshes you get. Then proceeds to ledgedrop nair to his death.

 

[KingClubber]

@ D Dr3amSm4sher

 

[funfetti]

why wasn't this much thought put into the other CPU characters?

 

[Miryafa]

why wasn't this much thought put into the other CPU characters?

I would guess because it takes a heck of a lot of work per character, a lot of work means a lot of time, and a lot of time means the release date gets pushed back, no one gets paid for it, this game has fewer people playing it since Nintendo banned it from official tournaments (which translates to less seeing your work), and those that do play it don't usually play with CPUs - so a lot of people aren't even going to see it.

 

[funfetti]

I would guess because it takes a heck of a lot of work per character, a lot of work means a lot of time, and a lot of time means the release date gets pushed back, no one gets paid for it, this game has fewer people playing it since Nintendo banned it from official tournaments (which translates to less seeing your work), and those that do play it don't usually play with CPUs - so a lot of people aren't even going to see it.

yeah, makes sense. I didnt know about the ban though. Maybe they'll have better characters in later patches?

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

If you want to beat him in the standard rule set, just go fox and hold shine for the game and make sure he is getting damaged by his own lasers. The time runs out and you have the percent lead so you win. This is pretty boring and takes a while, but literally always works.