Why is Bowser such a low risk high reward character ?

[DWIP]

Disclaimer: I don't play Bowser, I mostly play fast combo oriented character (falcon, Didi, Palutena)

So every time I'm playing against Bowser I just feel like I need to work way harder than my opponent to get anything, the damage I deal in one 3 or 4 hit combo he does the same with a single neutral-b. I'm struggling to kill him because he's the heaviest character in the game ? It would be a shame if he had some of the earliest kill moves in the game (laugh in side-b and f smash ).
I mean what is that character lacking ? Not speed, he has one of the fastest initial dash hence he has a good dash dance, his frame data ain't the slowest either. Does he lack kill power ? Hell no ! I mean they just throw random F smash because hey ! If it does land it kills. Did I mention his f smash has invincibility frames ? Ho! and his down-b not only can be use to break vertical combo but it does break a FULL shield in ONE hit !! And his side-b, don't get me started on his side-b.

I'm not saying he's overpowered, in fact I win this matchup most of the time with Palutena ( I do struggle with CF and Didi tho) it's just that it feels awfully unfair to play against Bowser.

So here's my rant. Friendly reminder to all my Bowser main outta here, keep doing your things, he's easy to play and efficient, just don't mind my grudge

Edit: I should mention that it is more of a funny/dishonest rant than a true complaint
Please don't take it seriously

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

FSmash does not have invincibility. It has start-up % based armor and intangible feet. The only move with invincibility is USmash, which has shell invincibility, but that move has limited use in Ultimate thanks to the speed of most characters and the new air dodge mechanic (you have to wait till they burn it just to cover the landing with USmash). DownB is not a combo breaker and does not have a significant disjoint. It's maybe as large as Young Link's Kokori Sword. It can be defeated by any other disjoint and most people can react to the start-up by drifting back. Same deal with shield. You can react to the start-up, though you will not be able to react to SideB.

You are correct that Bowser is a bundle of stats. This is typical for a lightning bruiser in any kind of game. Think Udyr in League of Legends. There's just no direct cheese in neutral, so all the cheese you listed are things that typically happen when Bowser is in advantage. It's not like in Smash 4.

There is also a point during MUs where Bowser will feel the same way about you, particularly against Palutena. One string from Palutena is 40+% damage. Two strings and Bowser must play as carefully as you do since another string will end Bowser's career. Consider that the game's mechanics are too momentum-based and explosive, rather than a fault of Bowser's design.

 

[DWIP]

TBH I don't think there's any character with major design flaws in this game, I was purposely undermining Bowser's weaknesses (for theatrical purpose), like he's combo food, his neutral not being so great, his recovery kinda abusable and such.

But I'm always on the edge of my seat when playing Bowsers because I know a few mistakes can lead to death very fast. I guess it's the character design, a big and heavy menacing boy that can kill you in a few hits

 

[ZephyrZ]

Bowser, like most superheavies, is actually very high risk high reward character by design. Everything he does puts him in danger. His attacks, while armored, all extend his hurtbox. Compare to swordfighters who have equally large, if not larger hitboxes on their attacks but are disjointed. This means not just that Bowser will be trading with his opponents often, but also that its much easier to wiff punish his long cooldown. Everything the character does is a risk and commitment. He doesn't really have a lot of safe options.

He needs to be heavy and strong so he can afford to make mistakes. Having long cooldown and a bad disadvantage state is punishing enough on its own. He lives long but he can take damage very, very fast.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It's true that Bowser reasonably has to win neutral less times than his lightweight opponents, but that doesn't make the act of doing so any easier. There's risk in every movement he makes or chooses not to make. Just piggybacking off of what has been said already but Bowser's size and (relatively) slow frame data make him very punishable and dissuades the player from dictating the pace of the fight. His great speed stats encourages rushing the opponent, but the only moves that are safe on block either break the shield completely, is a frame 6 air grab, or just hits hard enough that it pushes them out of shieldgrab range if his spacing was decent. And all of those lose to spot dodges which terrify me the most, personally.

That being said it's refreshing to hear somebody who doesn't play him actually appreciate Bowser's qualities realistically as a fighter. With Ultimate's roster, you can't just blast through your local tournaments without an ear out for what makes each character good.

 

[Downshift]

Bowser is also a large target, especially for characters with projectiles. Contrast that with Pichu.
His recovery is exploitable as well. Doesn't matter how heavy you are if you're constantly getting gimped at 30%.

 

[DWIP]

Bowser is also a large target, especially for characters with projectiles. Contrast that with Pichu.
His recovery is exploitable as well. Doesn't matter how heavy you are if you're constantly getting gimped at 30%.

I agree with you bro, his recovery lacks vertical momentum and that makes it exploitable but he got a nice buff on his recovery horizontal momentum

 

[Ridley64]

Bowser has low speed, small jumps, only 2 jumps and high punch
damage.

 

[Bobert]

Bowser has low speed

Are you sure about that one, chief?

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/AirSpeed

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/RunSpeed

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/DashSpeed

 

[Melonsismyusername]

what kind of person plays palutena and complains about bowser?

 

[Reila]

what kind of person plays palutena and complains about bowser?

B-but muh waifu >-<~

As for Bowser, I think he is the "safest" of heavies because of tough guy. As someone who plays stuff like Pichu, Meta Knight, Isabelle... Bowser can be very frustrating, but I would still rather fighter a good Bowser than Ganondorf spamming doriyahs.

 

[R-senpai]

I feel as if you should be massacring Bowsers with Falcon. He has such a huge hurt box, and Falcon gets so many easy follow ups off large hurt boxes. Falcon is also a pretty strong character, a simple edge guard with him should honestly kill Bowser (you can kill him even earlier if you're good at landing raw knee). Nair, and Bair are the best at edge guarding him. Because of Bowser's large hitbox, CF can actually get combos that likely wouldn't even work on other characters

B-but muh waifu >-<~

As for Bowser, I think he is the "safest" of heavies because of tough guy. As someone who plays stuff like Pichu, Meta Knight, Isabelle... Bowser can be very frustrating, but I would still rather fighter a good Bowser than Ganondorf spamming doriyahs.

I'd actually say playing those characters can be a nightmare for Bowser, especially Pichu (if you can get him into long strings.) I understand the frustration though honestly, I get locked up sometimes whenever I play against him, he isn't a free win unlike most other heavies in the game.

[/QUOTE]

Bowser has low speed, small jumps, only 2 jumps and high punch
damage.

I dunno man, Bowser is kinda fast- his aerials aren't very slow, especially forward air

 

[TehMud]

A good Plautena is terrifying when I play Bowser since I know it's just a bad MU. I'm combo food for DAYS. Same with Falcon. Plau's N-air just destroys Bowser

 

[Artmastercorey]

TBH I don't think there's any character with major design flaws in this game, I was purposely undermining Bowser's weaknesses (for theatrical purpose), like he's combo food, his neutral not being so great, his recovery kinda abusable and such.

But I'm always on the edge of my seat when playing Bowsers because I know a few mistakes can lead to death very fast. I guess it's the character design, a big and heavy menacing boy that can kill you in a few hits

I think they did a good job on the game but I do think TL has some design flaws personally. Light weight, average speed, bad range. Bowser is a great heavy weight though for sure. They made him fast and strong.

 

[JiggyNinja]

FSmash does not have invincibility. It has start-up % based armor and intangible feet.

Given the age of this comment I don't know if this has changed in patches or not, but currently Bowser's feet get invincibility during Fsmash, not intangibility. I traded once against Banjo's Wonder Wing and took no damage because it hit the invincible feet. If the feet were just intangible WW would have just passed straight through to my hurtbox.

I feel as if you should be massacring Bowsers with Falcon. He has such a huge hurt box, and Falcon gets so many easy follow ups off large hurt boxes. Falcon is also a pretty strong character, a simple edge guard with him should honestly kill Bowser (you can kill him even earlier if you're good at landing raw knee). Nair, and Bair are the best at edge guarding him. Because of Bowser's large hitbox, CF can actually get combos that likely wouldn't even work on other characters

So it's not just me. I'm not in Elite Smash yet, but Falcon is the character I dread the most when I come across him on Quick Play, even more than Ness. I can deal with spammy shooters, but literally every Captain Falcon I've fought so far has just manhandled me. I don't think I've beaten a single one yet.

Dthrow -> Uair Uair Uair Uair... juggles me right off the stage, making me ripe picking for an edgeguard if I screw up, and Stomp -> Knee is such a lethal kill confirm against a big boy like Bowser. Those two things, more than anything else about him, just **** me right up.

 

[Fluidity1895]

Bowser doesn't have safe moves

 

[Murder Space Dragon]

Bowser doesn't have safe moves

F-air? Spaced jab?