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Why is Bowser so good?

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hdrevolution123

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I couldn't find a Bowser Q&A.

Anyway my question is for such a slow character like Bowser, why is he just such a good character? He is so strong and some of his moves are so fast for his power. But typically why is Bowser such a good character and why does he have a lot of potential? I've watched many Bowser legends in play and they beat top tier chars as if they're bottom tier. Can some1 explain please?
 

Sliq

Smash Master
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Bowser is not slow. His running speed is average at worst, and he has a lot of moves with fast startups (as well as moves with a lot of startup). GANON is slow. Bowser is not.

Also, priority has nothing to do with speed.

Bowser is not fast, but he is not slow either.
 

hdrevolution123

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Bowser is not slow. His running speed is average at worst, and he has a lot of moves with fast startups (as well as moves with a lot of startup). GANON is slow. Bowser is not.

Also, priority has nothing to do with speed.

Bowser is not fast, but he is not slow either.
Wait a moment. I agree with what you say but Bowser's running speed is not slow. Ganon's running speed is slow but with Bowser's special run grinding he can run a lot faster than other heavyweights. But otherwise I understand you
 

Jonas

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Because Boozer has FSMASH!

But yeah, Bowser is good because he's not a crap characater like in the previous game and Bowser mains know how to play defensively.
 

Flayl

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Not even close. Bowser's smashes are less powerful than most of the other heavyweights.
 

Iamthemovie

Smash Journeyman
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Dtaunt

I seriously don't understand why Bowser's Fsmash isn't as powerful as some other characters... He's freaking King Koopa!
 

Bowser King

Have It Your Way
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He gives away bit of power for speed. A good trade IMO.
Not to mention he's already a beast so it doesn't matter much or at all.

Also, bowser is below average when it comes to speed but he is pretty far away from the term "slow".

-:bowser:Bowser King
 

Collective of Bears

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The thing about Bowser is that he is actually bad. But he's just not bad bad. Most of his matchups are only slightly disadvantageous, and therefore a GOOD Bowser user can win consistently.
 

Blistering Speed

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This isn't Melee, speed and quality of character aren't as intrinsically linked. That said, Bowsers not slow anyway, he got a speed up from Melee in exchange for a knockback loss, definately a fair trade.
 

Susi

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I like to beat up n00b Bowsers as Ness. Thats why Bowser is good :D

Seriously, he is fast and powerful at the same time. Fsmash does too much damage and he has sacrifial KO. <- n00b I beat up uses that very much, or atleast tries
 

Lotopius

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Bowser has a very good (best?) defensive game, with his huge shield, upb oos and moves in general. The melee fox has to apply a frame-perfect offence to win, the brawl bowser is the complete opposite: you wait for the enemy to come, you shield and you punish, easy as that.
That's why nearly all his matchups are 60-40: whoever you play with, bowser's game will be the same, and thus his chances to win will also remain the same.

So MrEH's right: what really matters is the player and what's happening during the match rather than what the opponent can do.

Quoting the metaknight's MU discution:
The thing about Bowser is that his matchups really don't match up with his extreme attributes. He isn't a character that has some excellent matchups and some terrible matchups. He's a character that is pretty much made of bad matchups. The funny thing about that though, is that even though a lot of his matchups are disadvantageous, most of them aren't horribly disadvantageous. They're usually only 55-65 in his opponent's favor. For the most part, Bowser matchups can be summarized into two separate groups.

Matchups where Bowser can hold his own with some difficulty.

Or matchups where Bowser is fighting Dedede.
The price to this defence, is of course, a by-default disadvantage to begin with, since you must force the opponent to attack.


EDIT: Are you kidding me? that quote if from MrEH himself!
 

hdrevolution123

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Bowser has a very good (best?) defensive game, with his huge shield, upb oos and moves in general. The melee fox has to apply a frame-perfect offence to win, the brawl bowser is the complete opposite: you wait for the enemy to come, you shield and you punish, easy as that.
That's why nearly all his matchups are 60-40: whoever you play with, bowser's game will be the same, and thus his chances to win will also remain the same.

So MrEH's right: what really matters is the player and what's happening during the match rather than what the opponent can do.

Quoting the metaknight's MU discution:


The price to this defence, is of course, a by-default disadvantage to begin with, since you must force the opponent to attack.


EDIT: Are you kidding me? that quote if from MrEH himself!
I understand now. Thanks for the comprehensive response. But King Dedede can chain grab/infinite grab Bowser. How can he protect himself from that since the grabs make Dedede a great threat.
 

Icy-Flood

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Bowser is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better then he was in Melee now
lets give bowsy Wowsy a break haha I dont use
him much But i liike him he takes a bit more skill to use then the other characters use and his wite color is pure royalty to me haha but I like his Side-B attack it can decide a close match rather you commit suicide or it sends the opponent flying. Bowser is not the wrost in my opinion I like him
 

Lotopius

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I understand now. Thanks for the comprehensive response. But King Dedede can chain grab/infinite grab Bowser. How can he protect himself from that since the grabs make Dedede a great threat.
Don't get grabbed ^^
Seriously, I don't know what the others will say, but the best/only course of action is to pick another character.

And don't get me wrong, there are other characters which are harder for bowser than others, like pikmin-guy or diddy, and any character with a projectile (the match-up going from 60-40 to 65-35), but DDD utterly ***** Bowser in nearly all areas.
 

hdrevolution123

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Don't get grabbed ^^
Seriously, I don't know what the others will say, but the best/only course of action is to pick another character.

And don't get me wrong, there are other characters which are harder for bowser than others, like pikmin-guy or diddy, and any character with a projectile (the match-up going from 60-40 to 65-35), but DDD utterly ***** Bowser in nearly all areas.
Lol Pikmin-guy. By the way Diddy Kong is ****. His bananas are too good yet cannot and can never be banned
 

itsthebigfoot

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I couldn't find a Bowser Q&A.

Anyway my question is for such a slow character like Bowser, why is he just such a good character? He is so strong and some of his moves are so fast for his power. But typically why is Bowser such a good character and why does he have a lot of potential? I've watched many Bowser legends in play and they beat top tier chars as if they're bottom tier. Can some1 explain please?
quick characters do not make good characters, good has nothing to do with speed, speed just helps, as does power, that is why most fighting games have some speed characters, and some power characters, the little quick guy doesn't always win (see: gief in anything but super turbo).

Somehow heavies got the stereotype of being bad characters, which is dumb, cause it limits their fanbase, even if they are actually good (see: bowser and dk boards combined having half as many posts as boards for bad characters like sonic). It's really sad, cause the only heavies that get any attention are either top tier (snake/ddd) or crap (ganon/ike), the ones in the middle get no love
 

hdrevolution123

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quick characters do not make good characters, good has nothing to do with speed, speed just helps, as does power, that is why most fighting games have some speed characters, and some power characters, the little quick guy doesn't always win (see: gief in anything but super turbo).

Somehow heavies got the stereotype of being bad characters, which is dumb, cause it limits their fanbase, even if they are actually good (see: bowser and dk boards combined having half as many posts as boards for bad characters like sonic). It's really sad, cause the only heavies that get any attention are either top tier (snake/ddd) or crap (ganon/ike), the ones in the middle get no love
That's so true. I went to the Ganon boards the other day. Bowser's lucky he doesn't suck THAT bad
 

Sunstar

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I really like Bowser
if you can handle him well, he's a good character
his fair is very strong and for its damage and knockback it comes out quite fast. it also has some good priority
same is true for his b-air... it even has more knockback and deals more damage(?) but at the cost of a longer ending lag
his jab combo is quite useful i think... same as his d-tilt
his n-b sometimes deals about 40%(!) damage
a good placed f-b sometimes seems to let bowsers opponent start with one stock less
his f-tilt comes out fast and has great knockback... it kills
my friends and me call his u-air THE killing move
his d-smash and his u-smash are evil: tons of priority, lots of damage and knockback
his u-b it quite good... not really as recovery, but as a damaging and/or killing move
not to forget, that bowser is a heavyweight

but
bowser is a really big target... sometimes he seems to be some kind of magnet for projectiles
bowser is easy to juggle
bowser has a bad recovery
therefor in some situations he is easy to gimp
he often is easy to punish because of his long-lasting ending lags


altogether you can say, that bowser has nearly no bad moves... whenever you attack an opponent with bowser, there are 2 possibilities:
bowser deals lot of damage and sends the opponent flying
the attack gets shielded/dogdged and bowser receives damage... but because of beeing a heavyweight, at the beginning of the game it has nearly no consequeces for bowser
 

hdrevolution123

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bowser has a bad recovery
I feel Donkey Kong has an even worse recovery. People can argue that he has one of the worst up-B recoveries in the game. I certainly agree with this. But DK's up-B is excellent for horizontal recovery whilst being terrible for vertical recovery. Bowser's up-B is a shorter animation but still is decent for a vertical or horizontal recovery. Just to elaborate on the implication of Bowser's bad recovery
 

Sliq

Smash Master
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Neither Bowser nor DK have bad recoveries. IF you think so, you're doing it wrong.
 
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