Why is “worst character” always Kirby and/or lil Mac?

[Perfect patricia]

Whenever there is a tier list those two are always bottom for no reason. Kirby came a long way and definitely improved. I play him myself and he has good throw combos,fast powerful and very low end lag smash attacks, good recovery and all well rounded attacks, y’all are sleeping in Kirby. As for lil Mac his recovery is much better than before and he still has one of the strongest and fastest attacks in the game. He is very stressful to go against and I don’t see any bad in him besides his air game but that’s suppose to be his weakness since his ground game is so dang good. If anything who is the worst character it’s definitely robin. 2nd slowest run speed, arc fire is terrible, lost checkmate, his whole recharge mechanic, and a huge hitbox

 

[Orlando BCN]

Whenever there is a tier list those two are always bottom for no reason.

Lol ok.

 

[Opossum]

Whenever there is a tier list those two are always bottom for no reason. Kirby came a long way and definitely improved. I play him myself and he has good throw combos,fast powerful and very low end lag smash attacks, good recovery and all well rounded attacks, y’all are sleeping in Kirby. As for lil Mac his recovery is much better than before and he still has one of the strongest and fastest attacks in the game. He is very stressful to go against and I don’t see any bad in him besides his air game but that’s suppose to be his weakness since his ground game is so dang good. If anything who is the worst character it’s definitely robin. 2nd slowest run speed, arc fire is terrible, lost checkmate, his whole recharge mechanic, and a huge hitbox

Little Mac's recovery was pretty much nerfed between 4 and Ultimate, even with Jolt Haymaker no longer putting you into helpless. If you get hit out of an aerial Jolt Haymaker, you don't get to use it again, unlike in Smash 4. This absolutely cripples him.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Kirby will always remain a low tier since people with PTSD from Smash 64 will cry Sakurai bias again if Kirby is ever good.

 

[Sudz]

Little Mac still dies the second he's off-stage. But this is not, and has never been, the reason he is low tier in high level play.* He is bad because he has absolutely no air game whatsoever. Especially given how much aerials were universally buffed in Ultimate, Little Mac is missing out big time because he is still forced to stay on the ground limiting his options greatly.

I am not at all familiar with Kirbys predicament and can't say anything on that.

*Reminder that you can do well with anyone you want up until you are in a high level competitive setting, and no, elite Smash absolutely does not count in the slightest

 

[Wiley]

The issue with Mac is not the stress... the stress is VERY real- I can’t stand playing Lil Mac since it’s no longer Smash, it’s the Mac mini game.

The issue with him is when you cheese him, and respectfully disrespect his options- he’s just dead off stage to too much. Camping on platforms is real and up b sharking reads can only net so many hits for him before causing him to lose a stock for even trying.

He’s actually less threatening without his dtilt confirms... but I never sleep on Mac. K.O is absurd, super armor is absurd, his speed his absurd. He wins because of preconceived notions like this post expecting free wins and not playing the super off key matchup the obnoxious and tedious way they should.

***

Kirby is slept on, I agree. Not going to be above mid tier in my books... but if you don’t just pull the old Sm4sh jump > into dair on repeat and get swatted out, he has a much better ground game than before and his combos just seem to flow even easier than before. And his smash attacks are surprisingly safe for how powerful they are.

He can still get smothered by projectiles and swords though so he’s really not that great- but I think he’s at least playable.


There are no true rotten eggs in ultimate to me *yet*

 

[MG_3989]

The tail of PK Thunder, Wolf’s lasers, anyone who can go off stage, etc... say hi to Mac’s recovery

Kirby is just mediocre at everything. He’s slow in the air and on the ground and edge guardable, he’s not powerful enough, he’s got no range and he has two super punishable specials in brick and hammer (redundant with fsmash anyway) that need perfect reads to do anything productive.

 

[soviet prince]

because if kirby was to strong the community would start accusing him of being bias

 

[FNUStory]

Kirby will always remain a low tier since people with PTSD from Smash 64 will cry Sakurai bias again if Kirby is ever good.

I don't have a problem with that. Unless it's Brawl Metaknight, people saying "Sakurai Bais" over tier lists need to get good at the game because it seems to me that they're having trouble countering one of Sakurai's characters and are looking for an excuse to nerf them. Kirby shouldn't be left in the dark every game, he should have a chance just like every character should.

Then again, there are still have characters like Zelda who are consistently bad. I can't speak for how good or bad she is in Ultimate, but we all know how horrible she was in Melee, Brawl, and Sm4sh.

 

[Mischiiii]

Well kirby isn’t that bad when it comes to casuals play. A friend plays him sometimes and it’s always a good opponent for me.

Little Mac is horrifing with his smash attacks. But if i come across a smash spammer little mac i just keep him away with my bombs, boomerangs and arrows and don’t try to fight close range.

He is just very limited to his ground game and that makes him very easy to predict. And as mentioned above his recovery sucks. 1 remote bomb and he won’t come back :D.

 

[volbound1700]

Kirby does real well in our circle. Little Mac is alright if you don't have any large cliffs with the stage lol. (Basically Hyrule Bridge, Wii Fit Studio, and his Boxing Ring).

I find Jigglypuff, Isabelle, Villager, and Snake for some reason hard to play and win with. It really depends on stage for most characters.