Why do people (including Dabuz) say Cloud is a bad MU for Rosa?

[Mini_Mac]

I haven't watched or read any explanation as to why Dabuz claims Cloud is one of Rosa's toughest MUs so if you guys have any infromation on that, please let me know.

Anyways, I faced a couple really good Rosa players on FG today and playing aggressively and/or defensively as Cloud was one of the toughest challenges I have ever had the pleasure of facing. Everyone says Cloud has the easiest time killing Luma but I have never heard an explanation as to why and everytime I try and do so, I get punished by Rosa.

When I jab 1-2-3, Rosa punishes.
When I tilt, Rosa punishes.
When I D-smash, Rosa punishes.
When I neutral-B, Rosa punishes (sometimes).
When I dash attack at Luma after Rosa does her neutral-B, Rosa punishes.
yada yada yada...

So basically, I have to be doing something wrong here cause if not, I don't see how people can say Cloud has the easiest time killing luma. I almost always got punished when try get rid of that pesky star person.

Also, getting in for approaches seems extremely tedious despite cloud's large hitboxes because of Luma's big and crazy dangerous hitboxes and when Luma IS gone, the player always seems to find a way to play effective defense until Luma is alive. Also, combo'ing Rosa is insanely difficult for the obvious reason that she is floaty.

Finally, Rosa's D-air always seems to catch Cloud extremely easily whether it is the spike hit boxes or the regular ones and what makes it more easy for her is that she doesn't even need to challenge me off-stage (other than when I have limit) rather she can just short hop D-air on the very tip of the stage because Cloud's up-B doesn't ledge snap.

So yeah. I have to be missing something in this MU if it is commonely agreed that Rosa sucks against Cloud. Right now I am just very unconvinced that Cloud is a bad MU for Rosa based on my experience but when it comes to Smash, I love to be wrong.

 

[iMeeHow]

You're essentially saying "when I do a bunch of unsafe stuff, Rosa can punish it", so can every other character.

Rosa can't do much about Cloud running away and getting limit. She can try to threaten him but Rosa's entire kit is built around her being a wall and that she can stuff approaches, so if she is forced to approach herself, this is already a disadvantage.

Cloud can kill Luma safetly and easily with SAFE moves. Why jab 1,2,3 or downsmash when you can just space bair's, retreating fair/nair, raising upair through her etc. She has no out of shield game and cloud has one of, if not the best, disjoint aerials.

Cloud can also pick any move he wants to edge guard Rosa. His aerials and Limit B-moves are very long lasting, meaty hit boxes that can easily stuff out the hitbox-less up-b of Rosa.

Rosa's only saving grace really is his poor recovery.

 

[GDGuitar95]

Cloud does well against Rosa because of his huge disjoints. Rosa has fairly poor landing options, so Cloud can abuse his up air against Rosa.

Rosa light weight + tall height gives her quite the disadvantage against Cloud. It basically makes her easy to hit and KO.