Why can't we have Rosalina? D: A peach mu discussion thread

[Kuro~]

OK! Lets get this ball rollin. Any discussion relevant to mu will be discussed here ratios at the bottom of your post dont post a ratio w/o specific relevant info. k thx.

relevant being...
advantages/disadvantages of stages
cp's
ban's
bread n' butter moves
Things to watch out for
How to approach it
things to keep in mind
etc. etc.





Go!

ALL MATCHUP THREADS WILL NOW BE APPROXIMATELY 2 WEEKS IN LENGHT. The ones that are finished early good. We can then move on. So work as quick as possible to get as many PoV as possible!! The faster you guys discuss the faster matchups will be done by me!!!!

And if u guys don't provide sufficient information to where i am comfortable in writing a summary if i have no prior knowledge myself. It won't be done till it has that sufficient amount. End of story. No exceptions. Unless i'm feeling happy-go-luckay(pun intended >3>)

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Name searchin': Nicole, Illmatic, any other Peach main that matters.

Imo, Pit takes this matchup

Pit outcamps Peach because our projectile is faster and stronger. Peach must approach in the matchup and it actually would take her a while to get within our range.

She will most likely float over, her dair goes through arrows curved up towards her so SH arrows counter that.

Once Peach is close she will most likely approach with a fair. Her fair has a pretty laggy start up, but there is no landing lag. After a fair will most likely come her super fast jab, frame 3 I believe. Trying to punish what Peach does on reaction isn't always the best decision to do. Since we have nothing faster than that jab after fair hits our shield, we can't punish it. If Peach doesn't space properly it can be grabbed. Sometimes Peach mains approach with fair by float canceling which can catch you off-guard. Another way Peach approaches is using dair, they usually can tell what height to float above us so it will be just out of our range until we make a mistake. Dair also has barely any cooldown lag. Peach can string aerials out of dair nicely. She is one of the best characters at shield pressure so if she is attacking our shield the best thing to do is roll away, don't spot dodge or stay in shield. We can punish a dair on shield with usmash oos. Peach can however andweave in and out with dair punish the usmash with fair so that will only work for a little while.

When we approach is most likely going to be with fair or a full hop dair. Should just be pelting her with arrows though.

Peach's moveset is pretty well balanced, except none of them are strong enough to kill unless she gets a sweetspotted usmash. She has a lot of large hitboxes and can combo well. She can get a guaranteed 30% off of one dair. We can fthrow to usmash, not sure but maybe fsmash as well.

Our aerial mobility is pretty much equal. One thing is peach has a bad airdodge so she will probably fastfall dair when trying to land. Uair can punish both of these options, but dair goes through the middle of uair so it has to be spaced like vs gaw dair.

On the ground Pit will win most of the time. Peach glide toss with turnips is pretty good, but it gets stopped by angel ring. If she pulls it off on our shield she most likely will follow up with jab>jab or jab>grab. Besides that, Peach has a pretty good dsmash that will shield poke if used after a fair or something.

usmash/utilt work well in this matchup. Pretty much all of our tilts work nice when fighting on the ground. Just never use any moves while Peach floats outside our range or you will get punished. Angel ring keeps Peach out, but leaving it out for too long is a free punish for Peach. She can't do anything against uair planking. Arrow planking toad can punish us.

Killing her isn't too hard, a fresh fair offstage at 120% or fsmash will work. Just wait until she can be punished and Pit gets the kill first. Quite nearly impossible to gimp Peach since her up b and float can cover great distance so just focus on getting the smash attacks. For Peach, killing is the toughest part of the game. If her fair isn't fresh, we can live to really high percents since that is her most used move. Fresh bair can kill us around 140-150%. Her fsmash is weird, but most of the time her fsmash kills from a hard airdodge read or someone approaches while she charges it. Don't airdodge into Peach ever or Pit will die from an usmash at like 100% or get punished by fsmash because the hitbox is deceiving. For the most part Pit should live a while. Peach also has a decent offstage game to a certain extent so we could get killed by an unsuspecting offstage fair if we're being dumb and glide right towards her or something.

Summing it all up:

Pit
-Better projectile
-Can reflect turnips/items
-Out-camps Peach
-Better at Killing

Peach
-Can combo better
-Quicker moves and follow ups
-Shield Pressure

55:45 Pit

I feel like a completely camping Pit can shut down Peach and make it 60:40, not as badly as metaknight, but Pit can give Peach a really hard time if the effort is put into never approaching. Peach mains prove me wrong.

 

[SFA Smiley]

You should ask Silly Kyle, he has loads of Pit experience as he fights KiraFlax like at every tourney we have.

 

[Krystedez]

I actually need help on this matchup, and Silly Kyle's input would help too, because I beat him Game 3 with Pit on PS1 by a whiffed but hit Fsmash (hit the second hit) in pools at Genesis 2 lol...

Yet I lose to Nicole recently, stupidly might I add. NEVER going to FD again, I should have been more alert lol.

I'll try to give my opinion on this later if anything else.

 

[Kuro~]

I actually need help on this matchup, and Silly Kyle's input would help too, because I beat him Game 3 with Pit on PS1 by a whiffed but hit Fsmash (hit the second hit) in pools at Genesis 2 lol...

Yet I lose to Nicole recently, stupidly might I add. NEVER going to FD again, I should have been more alert lol.

I'll try to give my opinion on this later if anything else.

Lol FD is like the best stage for the mu =/

 

[Krystedez]

Turnips... They get free rain... And no where to go with a bobomb in my opinion.

Eh just my person opinion.

 

[Kuro~]

I've never had trouble with turnips or bob-ombs. Quite easy to avoid ANYWHERE..(bob-ombs not turnips[turnips are better the smaller the stage imo)Turnips are worse on FD imo. The bob-omb thing is solved if you are paying attention. Kyon is known for getting shenanigans like that so i'm always paying attention. You really underestimate how much FD polarizes this mu. It really let's pit shine.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

FD isnt that bad for peach, but it is really good for Pit. Peach is better on bf or yoshis against pit imo.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright let me lay down some info.

FD is HER favor

platform stages we can go under is even

platform stages we can't go under is even or her favor based on which one it is.

platforms stages we can shark and go under are THE ONLY TIME IT IS OUR FAVOR


her jab is frame 2 and actually has about the same range or more as ours because it's hella disjointed. also her grab range is good and her jab combos into it. her fair is easy for her to space with on shield but ill get into how you should be moving when fighting her in a minute to make it not a big problem.

her dair when properly spaced is hard to punish but again if you are maneuvering properly it somewhat alleviates this but illmatic is very good about positioning correctly anyways and it combos into jab which combos into grab which leads into some good followups for her.

becareful peach can uair string us for a bit if she catches you with it early on.

turnips, just learn how to insta-catch items and you'll be fine. also just PS-ing helps.

from pit's side, you need to stay the hell away from her and just go for the chip damage. spaced fairs, using nair properly, dair camping, run away arrows, short hopped auto cancel uairs. hard core platform camping is also veeerrry helpful. seriously if you can platform camp her, you can time her out which is what you should aim for unless it's FD, where you just run and hope for the best.

your ftilt is a good mixup move, turnips work well for us too, landing a kill move that isn't dash attack is ***** so just be patient and take what you can.

seriously when you think about it, play peach like you would a wario that doesn't live till 180%. let me see if i can get illmatic all up in this ****.

 

[Kuro~]

Battlefield, castle siege, and PS1 have seemed the worst to me so far. The whole dtilt thing on yoshi's is really really underrated in this mu.


With smashville neutral. FD in our favor. Lylat in our favor. Yoshi's neutral.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i passively disagree with you, but ima let illmatic come in here when he gets on swf next (it'll be under a different account though, his normal one is banned.)

 

[Kuro~]

That's fine w/me. It just shows the diff. experiences we have.

 

[Kuro~]

Also, i would like to state that peach's jab most definitely does not outrange pits.

 

[Exce L]

I'll do a little writeup when my account gets unbanned tomorrow ^_^.

-Illmatic

 

[Silly Kyle]

I will definitely help discuss this matchup since I fight KiraFlax practically every tourney.

From this point, I would say the matchup is practically even. Usually, Kira's Pit loses to me and I lose to his ROB x_X

I'm jealous of Nicole, cuz I almost beat Krystedez in pools at Genesis 2 but his rogue *** fsmash hit me in the face when we were both over 100+%. GGs lulz

 

[Krystedez]

Jealous cuz you don't got DA BOBOMBZ to deal with me, huh?! :3

I'm also practicing/learning the matchup at a much deeper level, KB practiced with me on wifi yesterday, so I should be able to play more clutch next time I face any peach. Nicole, I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE. I'm keepin an eye on dat turnip pull.

 

[Kuro~]

So i'd like for the pit side to

1) post any vid(s) you have of yourself playing the mu
2) what you were doing wrong
3) what was effective
4) what wasn't(goes back to 2 though)

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ill go through and get my peach vids and see if sync and illmatic have any they haven't uploaded that are more recent than the HoM2 vid. i hope my money match with KB was uploaded.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

So is this all the input we'll see for this month?

 

[Kuro~]

No. But this mu is gonna be longer cuz i'm on the bbr mu panel for pit. And college. And homecoming.

 

[Kuro~]

Bump OF JUSTICE!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright ill throw out how pit should go in in this MU (i've finally been able to get illmatic to last hit)

short hop spaced fairs are the key to this entire MU. space fairs when she floats in, her fair is slower and the range is similar but ours beats anything she has when it's spaced. between this, nair, and arrows, you can effectively wall peach. when she is grounded, keep spacing fairs but throw in some ground game too because it's when she is grounded that we can go in, still have to go in cautiously though. serioulsy now that i grasp the MU it is this simple.

for pit:
1 don't let her start a combo on you
2 space fairs and nair at her
3 always camp arrows at her
4 when she lands, this is the only chance you have to go in
5 she has no answer to planking, but plenty of answers when you wanna get back onstage.


for peach:
1 combo pit because it's easy after the first hit at pretty much any percent
2 throw some turnip game in there
3 kill him

 

[Kuro~]

HEYYY i actually agree with everything u said. Except i'm surprised you don't mention dair...dair is so good in this mu much like fair. I'm also finding it easier and easier to land bair on peach. Honestly, the better you get at powershielding, spacing, and punishing the easier this mu becomes.

And i'm still trying to implememnt WoI OoS Move canceling against all the relevant matchups. Me and luckay should retest just to make sure. Unless he remembers everything. I only remember the few i found important enough to remember lol.

I still am of the opinion of it being even. IDK about you.

If anything we can chat over skype about it

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

This matchup is hard on wifi, and it's the only real good Peach experience I have. You really do have to watch out for her spacing of her moves, she can be hard to hit and punish.

Slayerz~ too good >_<

 

[Kuro~]

Good reaction time and good spacing go a long way in this mu.

 

[pitskeyblade]

How come we're still on this MU? Is it because we're waiting for some to contribute or something?

 

[Kuro~]

because it never started.

compare the contributions to this one and those of zss,lucy, marth. This discussion has been HORRID. And as stated in OP i refuse to do write-ups till ppl thoroughly talk this out and come to a consensus.


We still need to get peaches and have a back and forth going. Not just one winded "i'm right" or "this is what i know" statements

We heaven't gone over stages yet either.

 

[z00ted]

I really don't know anything about this matchup, I just try to destroy people.

Pit's fair and dair are really good tools for beating Peach.
Arrow camping is not too great.
Aerial when below 40%, grounded when above 40% is the best way at going in on this matchup.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

just tell us what works for you and what stages you like illmatic. i know you know this MU pretty well

 

[Silly Kyle]

Yay I beat KiraFlax in tournament today. In two sets - once in Winner's Semifinals and once again in Loser's Finals.

I would say the Peach matchup with Pit is 55:45. I give the slight edge to Peach because she's a sexy *****.

His arrows aren't that big of deal in the matchup. They can be annoying sometimes, but overall it's easy to get past them.

Pit can run into trouble killing Peach in this matchup if the Peach spaces herself away from the main KO moves like bair (and fair). The same is true vice versa, however, I think Peach can do a much better job of staying alive and finding the kill if spaced properly.

Peach pressures Pit pretty hard in this matchup. She can force him into situations that are not very favorable for him and can put Peach in a very strong position, making it hard for Pit to catch back up.

Pit has a good ground game against Peach, which is why she will be looking to beat it with well spaced aerials above them. Peach is also effective at powershielding and punishing with autocanceled nairs out of shield or any other mix-up she has.

Peach is a boss.

Pit is kewl too, I guess.



<3

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Forgot about peach's broken power shielding ability, Pit cant do dat

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i think he meant since her grounded punish options are overall faster/start legit combos that she benefits more out of powershield than pit who usually gets in like fsmash or something hard to follow up. tbh i can agree with it being slightly easier for peach but im still growing wings in this MU so i won't slap a number on it

 

[Juushichi]

It seems like it's a bit in Peach's favor. Not explicitly a ton, something like slight advantage. Whatever people feel the number or + whatever that represents.

 

[Kuro~]

Idk the more i play the mu with kyon and other peaches the more it seems even to me. Your air speed is not great enough where you can simply float to avoid arrows. Your low % combos are hard to get on a camping pit who is happy to trade % in the % range. And pit's lack of kill moves is drastically reduced in this mu cuz dair, upsmash, and ftilt actually kill peach cuz she's so light. Not to mention bair is relatively easy to trade with peach. And that kills hella early. I also disagree about pit not being able to plank peach. I've played all kinds of responses(pressure,go to other side search for stitch,bob-omb, etc., go grab other ledge and wait, stay out of arrow range yet close enough to punish get ups by abusing float) and none of them affected me at all. I also disagree at pit not being able to kill peach cuz of reasons i stated earlier.

How do you feel maha?Luckay?

What about peach counterpicks? I'd imagine Castle siege, ps1, and maybe yoshis.

 

[pitskeyblade]

@Kuro- Are the counterpicks you mentioned CPs for us to pick, or CPs that a Peach main might pick? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I was just a bit confused about that.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I'm guessing those are stages that Peach would/should CP Pit to, since the general consensus is Pit is bad(rather limited) on stages where he can't scrooge

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I really don't see how Peach has a slight advantage over Pit.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

@fyre
peach would take pit there

@kuro/everyone

peach has no answer to pit's planking. if there was no lgl this MU would be like 60-40 or worse pit. start match, go to edge, plank for 8 mins and scrooge after every perfect spaced uair. arrow her as she crosses. repeat. there is nothing she can do. however onstage is different. her air game is overall>ground game. but we can keep it neutral with spacing our aerials in wall fashion. but her punishes on reads tend to be more rewarding damage wise until kill percents than our punishes are. however we do have a killing edge on peach in the forms of bair and fsmash and dash attack. these are what you will kill with the most, in no order as the percent these options become available can be quite high with the spacing punishing game. however ours has the potential to happen earlier than she does thanks to our very based bair. and she edge guards us pretty damn hard when we have to get onstage due to lgl. it's really bad actually getting back on

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Ay not even Peach's favor tho. Even at best for Peach. Whoever said Peach will live long is lol

 

[z00ted]

Yeah, I think this matchup is even.

I really suck against Peach online though, so please don't gather anything from that even if I have won.

Peach has really quick aerials
Great pressuring tools
A mobile projectile
Strong air control

However Pit really takes advantage of an air campy Peach in this matchup.
She's too floaty and lightweight and usually will get harassed by fair or dair.
Terrible kill power.

All Pits should try to get Peach INTO THE AIR in this matchup. Get a grab? Throw up. Being harassed by dair? U-tilt. Dash attack is actually really key to beat Peach because she just loses in the air and it sends her straight in that direction.

Pit is actually really good at killing Peach, in my opinion.
Full hop fair can serve to read a ton of our approaches. Bair is just really strong in general and can hit us well because our long air duration. Dash attack, f-smash, d-smash, u-tilt, and u-smash all kill Peach.

If you try to arrow spam or camp while losing, one small mistake will quickly lead to 45+%. Try not to be too stationary in this matchup. Constantly move. Peach's glidetoss can cover a lot of area rather quickly, especially if she adds in bonewalking. Her float is actually pretty quick too, if you use it correctly. Peach's dair does a really great job in positioning herself around Pit's blind spot. Other than u-tilt, (which we can outspace) he really doesn't have an answer to a smart dair approach. Peach without a doubt wins on the ground. Quick ground floated aerials do a great job of maneuvering around Pit's annoying approaches (jabs, angel ring, etc etc) and those moves also keep you in lag for far too long.. so I wouldn't suggest using them.

Counterpicks are probably all in Pit's favor, but only slightly.
He can do well on any stage we take him, but he also has the options of FD and Halberd for better camping or easier vertical kills.

Peach has the option of taking him to Brinstar or Rainbow (where he can't ledge camp too well) but he also has some pretty tricky tools to use on those stages as well.

His ledge camping is NOT beatable as Peach.
Well it is, but the risk greatly exceeds the reward.

Honestly, I feel as though it is slightly in Peach's favor.. but not enough to warrant a +1 for her.
It can stay as 0 and I'll be fine with it.

What about peach counterpicks? I'd imagine Castle siege, ps1, and maybe yoshis.

None of these stages are good choices to take a Peach to.

Castle Siege - First transition is far too narrow. Very low platforms and small horizontal blast zones. Peach excels when her opponent is above her, and she'll definitely take advantage of that with quick ground floated u-airs or u-tilts. If any of her aerials sweet spot near the edge, you will be dying a lot earlier compared to Final Destination or Smashville. The second transition has far too many platforms also. Plus, we can refresh our moves on the statue or just camp behind them and wait for you to come. If we're confined in a small area and you approach, it's pretty obvious that Peach will win in that given situation because that's what she best. The third transition is similar to FD I suppose, but the moving ledges doesn't help your case, as well as the higher ceilings.

Pokemon Stadium 1 - Wayyyy too many areas for Peach to confine you to. Every single transformation besides the main one, we can just hide, avoiding your areas and forcing you to approach (if you want to). The ledges are sorta tricky here too. Low ceilings help, but you don't want to take Peach to a stay with a lot of ledges or closed areas.

Yoshi's Island - There is one HUGE freakin platform sitting in the middle of the stage. Peach does not do a great job landing because her fall time is soo slow. By giving her a platform one thirds the way between the stage and the vertical blastzone, you basically nullify one of your strongest attributes in the matchup. The ground of the stage take away our ground float game in some circumstances, so I guess that's a plus. But I would much rather pick another stage for Peach over Yoshi's.

You want to take Peach to a stage where you can read her landings easily, and she can't get to you quickly. Go to the ledge of FD or any transformation of Halberd. FD is just one straight line and provides for great arrow camping (something you usually shouldn't be doing, but for once you can). Halberd encourages sharking and is very similar to FD with lower vertical blastzones. It's your best bet.