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Why can't Toon Link win the big one?

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
It seems Toon Link has what he needs to win, but I've never seen him actually pull the big one. MJG has come the closest, but didn't get it done either.

What is the flaw that keeps him from winning? Is it just too mentally demanding for him to keep up his zone game for 7+ matches? Or is there some glaring weakness?
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
I wouldn't say TL really has any glaring weaknesses that hold him back, his strengths are just not all that spectacular so he gets outclassed in certain regards by better characters.

He doesn't really have much of a ground game...and he has a bad grab. He's good in the air and is decent at killing, but again he's nothing spectacular.

As a result he loses to top tiers. And AFAIK he gets bodied by MK. Being hard countered by the best (and most popular) character in the game is a pretty big obstacle.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I wouldn't say TL really has any glaring weaknesses that hold him back, his strengths are just not all that spectacular so he gets outclassed in certain regards by better characters.

He doesn't really have much of a ground game...and he has a bad grab. He's good in the air and is decent at killing, but again he's nothing spectacular.

As a result he loses to top tiers. And AFAIK he gets bodied by MK. Being hard countered by the best (and most popular) character in the game is a pretty big obstacle.

I just don't understand (or see) how MK bodies Toon Link. Any video reference? It seems toon link makes life MISERABLE for MK with his projectiles, can punish shuttle loop pretty badly and can recover? I might be horribly mistaken on that because that's not the first time I've heard MK wrecks TL
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
More than fast enough to go through projectiles, gets super weak punishes on SL, it's hardly difficult to punish his recovery or at worst deal a LOT of damage. Completely outdoes him at midrange.and his OoS options make tink fighting him at closer range... Not that goods

:phone:
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
If he feels like committing to hit him at a certain point in the glide leaving him open to looking silly vs cancels

:phone:
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
one trick pony, TL has a great ranged attack but is much less solid in close quarters and has a very mediocre ground game, eventually you'll be behind or someone will be very effective at getting in and you need more balance to deal with that. it's also very mentally draining to have to camp every opponent you play with one of the more complex projectile setups in the game, by the time you've gone through a few rounds of tourney maybe your opponent hasn't exhausted themselves as much as you have. I honestly think this is true of a lot of mid-high tier characters, a lot of them have tools that can make them compete with better characters but later on in the tournament the MK or IC player just has much more left in the tank
 

Thebest1pj

Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
3,326
Location
Intergalactic camping with mjg.
Wanna know the real reason?

Because we all get high before the tournament starts this isn't a troll we all do lol

that and what etecoon said most of us are mentally drained by the time we get all the way up there.

while char like ics just grab you
 

southpaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
189
Location
NY, and CA
3DS FC
4442-0022-4229
looooool tl suuuuuuxxxxxxx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_mpznUgVD4
the japanese vid is ok for reference so long as you watch game2 and see how otori figures out exactly wut to do after one game(well not at all close to perfect but just a simple way to win). the vid of mjg shows how bad the mu is. at highest lvl i truly believe its just gimps. I've seen/played many matches where mk makes a ridiculous come back from the most simple of gimps countless times.

A lot of chars are completely capable of beating toon link and just look at toon links frame data, his defensive options are horrid with a slowish jump squat, bad rolls and no faster option than frame6, along with the obvious no legit grab.

and <10% punishes that dont kill or put mk in very disadvantages positions are not hard punishes to mk.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
10,050
I always liked this match, as it's a good demonstration of how bad the MU can be when the Metaknight knows exactly what to do.

Essentially, rogue tornadoes, offstage gimps, fast movement, all this stuff makes the MU very hard for TL.

Toon Link also has the misfortune of all his bad matchups being the most statistically successful/popular characters (MK, Falco, to an extent, Snake, Olimar, Wario). ICs is a positive matchup for TL (I think?) but the MU itself is still very hard to pull off, or at least mentally draining.

Also TLs just smoke smoke smoke weed before matches cause they give no ****s.
 

Jash

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
1,255
Location
Tal Tal Heights, New York
Because fools like me over think MU when the MU's are actually simpler then they actually look. I need to start applying some of this new information I have but until we endure the ridicule of TLs struggle, we will never win the big one.

I believe Toon Link has all the capabilities he needs.
 

RvlvRBobcat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
158
Location
long island
I believe that Toon has little flaw in his game.

Maybe the little flaws in Toon are easier to exploit and make bigger even if they are more little than they seem.

Patience is a good factor in Toon's play, and maybe MJG was drained from a long day and didnt care in the end and wanted to get it over with.
 

KT Kasrani

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
2,177
Location
Philadelphia, Pa
TL is a bad character who is easily ***** by one key factor. Powershielding. play a really good PS'r and you will want to quit this game.
 

~TLK~

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
282
Location
Provo, Utah
NNID
toonlinkking777
^This. Powershielding gets us bad. and Toon Link doesnt have many moves that beat nado, that move really wrecks toon link.

:phone:
 

GodMeowMix

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
582
Location
Florida, Ocala
TL is a bad character who is easily ***** by one key factor. Powershielding. play a really good PS'r and you will want to quit this game.
You can force them out of power shielding by baiting them into other options. Toon Link can is pretty quick so you have plenty of time to reset situations until something like this will happen.

I agree that Toon Link is a very draining character but I also believe that Toon Link misses the mark because we only utilize certain aspects of play style with him, falling short of what makes Toon Link an actual FIGHTER, leaving a lot of players unbalanced when certain situations arise.
 
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