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Why are ICs considered bad?

Defyler

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
65
Location
Ontario
Why are the ICs considered the worst character in PM? I feel that they are much better than that and I think it might be because they aren't used that much and not many people have evolved their meta. I don't really play as them but I'm considering it. I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter
 

Foxy K

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
242
Location
Twin Cities, MN
NNID
foxy_k
ICs are fairly easy to kill and gimp, difficult to play, and managing Nana can be rough and non-IC players simply don't understand it at all. Unless their opponent lets him or herself get grabbed all the time, they have to really scrap to win, and even when they do, it looks not pretty and like they had to really work for it. They have some pretty rough matchups with some pretty popular characters, and some pretty impossible stages you get forced to use your bans on. I definitely don't think they're the worst character, but they're really hard to use well and even at full potential they're not an S, possibly not even an A rate character.
 

Phresh123

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
140
Desync game 101, if your desync's and grabs are on point, people start to get confused. People cannot handle desync pressure which is why you ban stages where it hinders you. Usually platform stages.

This is my opinion and based off high level players I've played and beat, mostly all the time they say "I've never played an Ice climber in PM."
 

Defyler

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
65
Location
Ontario
Desync game 101, if your desync's and grabs are on point, people start to get confused. People cannot handle desync pressure which is why you ban stages where it hinders you. Usually platform stages.

This is my opinion and based off high level players I've played and beat, mostly all the time they say "I've never played an Ice climber in PM."
So what your trying to say is that the reason why Ice Climbers are considered bad is because not enough people have advanced their meta and even play with them?
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
505
Location
Plover, WI
Well the pivot bug helps for them being bad.

In my opinion ICs are not played often because of the bug, the amount of work required to just play the character, and the hatred of the character around the smash community.
 
Last edited:

Phresh123

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
140
Correct, there meta is far more advaned than the minor bugs they have. I play IC's more than anyone in my region, and I never been affective wrongfully in matches. Even some minor bugs like when Nana up throws in the middle of the stage instead of following up with another grab(this is something people will possibly pickup on when metagame advances) but yet and still, that can lead to followups.

There really not bad characters although people hate getting grabbed I for one like infinites in games. Makes it more challenging even if the person plays campy you'll find out sooner or later after playing several people who do so how to stop it.
 

Spaghetti Sammy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
238
Location
Notournaments, Wisconsin
NNID
FreshBagels
3DS FC
0104-0256-0397
I can't really add anything other than, everyone is good in Project M and tiers seems to largey depend on who does good with them. Such as Neon kicking everyone's **** off bringing Lucas very high up.
ICs are just the least played and therefor least good characters
 

Foxy K

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
242
Location
Twin Cities, MN
NNID
foxy_k
Even some minor bugs like when Nana up throws in the middle of the stage instead of following up with another grab(this is something people will possibly pickup on when metagame advances) but yet and still, that can lead to followups.
That's supposed to work that way. It's a compromise between not having handoff infinites, but not wanting her to throw randomly like in Melee. I think they even slowed down the animation of uthrow to allow for followups on reaction.
 

941

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
448
I'm of the opinion that a character isn't strong until tournament results demonstrate the character is strong. In almost every version of PM, ICs have had among the worst tournament placements of any character. I see a lot of speculation that suggest ICs are actually a really good character that has the potential to place well at a large tournament, but until ICs players are placing consistently well in brackets, I don't think anyone can really say they are better than low-mid tier.
 

FirewaterDM

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
113
Location
VA
I think it's a bit more than that. I enjoy IC's and I hope that they get better in 3.6. The problem is that they are simply bad in comparison to everyone else in the game, I do think they have potential but between most every other character gaining new tricks/capabilities to get around what grab game they still have, the ability of other characters for the most part to separate Nana even though she's much better in terms of surviving than in Melee, makes it hard to play them and do well.

In fact, IC's literally have to work the hardest in PM to keep up with other characters, much less get stocks because their tools with desynchs, etc is awesome, but it takes a ton of work to have those up to par, and a lot of characters that were bad MU's in Melee got better, and IC's lose to quite a few PM characters as well. This + the unreasonable hatred of IC's and the glitches that exist ensures a low number of IC's players. Also, in comparison to everything else I don't think IC"s were compensated enough for the lack of an infinite game.

Either way they are still fun but i'm almost positive they are the hardest character to play at a top level in PM.
 
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