Whose Mafia Is it Anyway Day 4- Day End 8 PM Central Monday 7/22

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Perhaps this could wait until postgame I want to exit the game and talk to you all from a perspective that is not vindictive towards my wincon.

Nothing I did in this game is reflective as to who I am as a person. Mafia is a game but I know that emotions can seep through no matter how hard we try to deny it, and I certainly felt those emotions. Any undertaking of this process was done in a strategical manner, and know that I don't particularily enjoy it. I hope I can continue to get along with you all and that you no longer hold any animosity towards me for my 'play' knowing it was an act.

Maybe that's wishful thinking? Maybe you do. That's fine either way. I'll have more words to say in-post-game, but holy **** am I tired.
 
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Thirdkoopa

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Okay so... this is awkward. I hate doing modkills, but here we are. I'm really sorry that it had to come to this.

I'm breaking the rules to post this so that people can have a counter argument to click like on.

**** off lol
Game Rules
10. No posting in the thread when you are dead, or during the night phase.
Lore - Town Bodyguard was modkilled in the Middle of Night 2.

Deadline is now 6 PM PST / 8 PM CST on Saturday, July 13th. No further commentary from GLG or Myself will happen with regards to this until the game is over.

(Also I know people will be mad at soup's deadpost but that was approved by GLG/I)
 
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Lore

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Oh wait hold the ****ing phone a minute.

That was APPROVED without saying a ****ing word about it? Half the reason I made the post was because he broke the rules to make that post. I was keeping it polite and saying my disagreements in PM, trying to keep my temper in check, but this is absolutely ****ed up.
 

Lore

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Spak didn't make a giant text wall that would affect the game overall. I took it (rightfully) as you continuing to be a player who disregards rules, common courtesy in game (not faking AtEs etc), and more.

So I (rightfully I might add) told you to **** off with that. If I had known that the mods had explicitly approved that garbage, I would have bitten my tongue and saved it for post game, knowing that you didn't break a rule to post it.

I have every right here to be livid.
 

Lore

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Players get one "bah go town/scum etc" post after death. They don't get a massive text wall that will affect the game going forward.

I saw you breaking the rules to make that post, and I responded with my exact thoughts on the matter, giving others a chance to click like and agree as well.

Instead, I find out that the mods fully approved that post with zero announcement. If I had known that, I would have held my tongue and known that at least you didn't break a rule to post it.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Nothing I said was made with the intent to influence the game. That's why I prefaced it the way I did. I'm dead. Nothing I say matters. I could talk about the weather in my post or make some kinda joke, but instead I told you how I personally felt towards the game. That isn't telling of anyone's alignment besides my own, and you already know it because I'm dead.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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IMMPRESSIONS AFTER SOUP AND LORE FLIP (ordered):

gorf:

town

town!marshy:

most confident town read atm. Looking at what hes done and how hes done it, it all fits super well. And not in like a “too well” type of way. He smelled scum in soup/lore/spak, and I believe his conclusions about all three and how he wound up strong and firm on soup. The thing I hate the most is that if hes scum he gets the satisfaction of pocketing me. But if youre town, congrats, im in your pocket. Dawg I ****ing suck at this game I literally spearheaded a townie and defended scum.

155,500%confirmedtown!kevinm:

TOWN AF upon a scum!soup flip. That was my priority #1 when I saw soup come in with his kevin target claim: determine how I felt about kevin on a scum!soup flip. kevin came to a soup scum read early. He called out liking soup v lore and went soup, calling lore possible lynchbait that’s just saying weird as **** stuff. Went lore>spak>soup at a critical juncture pre-claim. At the end wanted not-orange and went lore BECAUSE town decided theyd let soup live another Day in case hes an oracle. Soft defended soup eod2 but I mean everyones got their off moments and, really, I bet he would’ve gotten off if it looked like that lore **** might actually turbo. Interactions between kevin and soup DOOOO NOTTTTT seem svs in any nature: kevin OFTEN calls out soup for being a pest or brat etc all while vying for HIS lynch (until eod2, but I mean he wanted some spice and I feel him on that). Soup OFTEN gets genuinely hella offended at **** kevin says and kevin sometimes nearly breaks rule 1 to him (even though most of the times we were all thinking it lmfao). And I feel like kevin would have more integrity than to play a scum game with soup in the way they would have to for that to be svs.

Town!Ryker:

VERY good on a scum!soup lynch, not wonderful on a town!lore lynch but the former outweighs the latter for sure. Dude was hard sold on his lynch D1 through the claim (he kinda got cold feet at the end, but tbh votecounts look much worse than how it actually transpired imo). he was very strong on lore, but he chose soup. he isod spak and got a bad smell from them... but he ****ing chose soup. got me to put an analysis out on a ?? at the time in pythag. VERY willing to spur up conversation, very willing to challenge reads. and to be real, he just had the same smell of scum among the three top wagons. He wanted soup dead hard after the claim and kept it up when it REEEEEEEEALLY looked like it was gonna happen. Absolutely instrumental in his direction for getting soup the **** outta here d2. when frozenflame came in the thread he squadded the **** up with him and got A LOT of info out on frozenflame. He didn’t have to play that role at all.

Noobtown!Pythag:

very much still a noobtown read. Soup was picking on him pretty consistently but very weakly before he reeled into his cocoon. soup cited liking town!orange’s (very bad) case on pythag, seems like a good try at deflecting to show youre doing ****, and this was along with a bad town!kary read and a marshy read that was also ridiculous. Very good noobtown approach to the d2 turnout: considered soups and lores alignment seriously, and took the route of reading them tvt (which in the end can easily just be a bad ****in read), but putting his vote to soup cuz it possibly clears kevin and it opens the game wide open. I believe him when he says he ultimately felt stuck. He had no reason, if they were svs, NOT to conclude to a scum!soup read at that point that he started pedaling soup v lore tvt. He straight up didn’t think lore was scum. This slot either busses scum!soup or steers direction to town!lore as scum. And he did neither. d2 play consisted of trying at points to get interactions going and try to expand his thoughts going into d3, and i like it.

null!Ran:

still have vestiges of a townlean on ran based on meta and looking at his connecting thread of posts and how he comes to the absurd conclusions he does. He had an early scumread on soup which is ++ but it went away which is -- . Soup began to have really like limp pushes on him to provide and stuff, and then did nothing with it calling him “kary” with how hes posting. Can see that as svt, but ehh… can see that as svs too cuz he winds up starting to get off of it by 305, and the blowup is like a day and 100+ posts away. After the claim though he went HARD on lynching soup D1, and then spawned his soup+orange+lore scumteam. Also stayed hard in the paint on lynching soup at critical junctures. Sure he has second thoughts on scum!soup but i dont disbelieve his m.o as he continued the Day... But on d2 his rationales for townreading soup are really really bad looks. Only concedes to a soup lynch when it seems like the thread is overwhelming in favor of it. But does he really stand this strong against his partners lynch when, really, it almost looks destined by d2 start? Hes also VERY strong on scum!lore at eod 2 which is sketchhhhhh. but when given a hypothetical between lynching soup or lore before the self hammer attempt by soup, he chose soup... its a question mark. this is the read im most interested in others weighing in on. Very much a read that can drop, dudes really making me hungry for some ****ing content

null!Tom:

overall tom looks pretty ****ing bad when you look at his play without considering the player, but looks pretty ****ing good when you look at the play without considering the play. its hard to put into words well. his approach to the game is really good, and i can very much empathize with the way in which he develops his reads. but then you look at how he went about what hes done throughout the game and a lot of it is really ****ing weird. Wants soup lore and orange at differing times d1 but his vote is essentially glued to lore. Soup largely ignored him and lumped him into his nulls when he made his readslist so that can be an idk or an omg. EXTREMELY timid to do much play wise eod1, and rode lore out till the bitter end. Wanted to keep soup alive one Day because of mechanics, and defaulted to his lynch because it gave us the most info we needed going into the rest of the game. which i cant really blame him for. but before he went in on a reread he was talking about wanting to not lynch soup but then backpedaling on that??? Wanted to lynch soup despite thinking lore had a higher chance of flipping scum eod2. Scum!tom bussing him but not really and giving himself a pivot to lore? He was extended that chance to pivot and he didn’t (by marshy and i). but he also gave himself a lot of outs to continue pushing lore in his fat notes post. kinda lame but I ****in feel his position in the game hard as **** if town, we both look really **** with a lot of how this game has unfolded, and its about turning his play around so hes not ml'd. but being another dude who had a very incorrect d1 and has gone HARD IN THE PAINT gives me hope.

scumlean!ff:

ff has a tendency to talk about things waaaaay more often than he does push things. I hate that part of that is likely inactivity, but when it comes to his thoughts on my joke post early, or the tom eod1 interaction, or his eod2 interaction with ryker just being so tonally brash for no reason (as well as specifically avoiding delving deep into his town!soup thoughts), the pattern of bark-no-bite is ever present. its very interesting to me that hes gone hard in the paint against a soup lynch twice. I can buy a world where scum!ff hard goes against his partners lynch d2 because he has nothing to lose by doing it (if hes good calling himself wrong and tryna hit the reset button d3). Soup lumps him in the nulls on d1 but says his opening post was “hot fire” or whatever. Also eod2 when soup thought he had a chance to live he said he thought he solved the game and put ff in that list of players to look at?? something like that. Point is that ff took that and really creampied soup a bit at the end of eod2. Honestly looks kinda weird, cognitive dissonance between how hed been treating soup up till then and then right there. Also lowkey think he was tryna pocket me because he had a decent bit of content where he would like meatride my (very wrong) stances and position of the game and whatever. Oddly brash tone with inputs about things that aren’t really worth their trouble, like his spew with ryker eod2 and his dumb back and forth with tom eod1. And VERY limited play outside of the core of orange, soup and lore. Only strong vote on the wagon eod2 when it was competing with soup (ryker was a placeholder, kevin and I were tryna stir things up) eod2. Really bad looks for him. but something makes me wanna see if hes worth keeping around cuz F U C K P O C K E T I N G.



Scum!fanny:

remember what I said to soup about scum wanting to be in different positional points in the thread?

lowkey shamelessly hard trust in kevinm’s bingo. Kevins interaction with him at the start of eod2 is great: seems like fandango is tryna catch him in something with the lore wagon switch but its incredibly light in execution? Overall theme is he just seems interested in being present but out of the way, moreso letting things play out and playing on a super comfy armchair. Comes to a soup vote after his meltdown and JUST before his claim. thats a long time of not voting soup for how active in his lynch im sure he makes himself seem. Doesn’t care to do much in terms of advancing reads or condoning pushes (outright didn’t read spak, the other main wagon, till like the deadline). Shaaaaady hop off soup wagon at a critical juncture mid/late d1 (it was either just before eod1 or just at the start of eod1? cant remember right off memory). NOTICABLY short of content d2 aside from sticking to a soup lynch (which fits the “appropriate” narrative of d1-d2). Rest of his play is set on playing townie looking enough and gleefully waiting for himself to look good on a scum soup lynch. In his reads tier list he has lore and soup as scum. Gives some reasons on soup but little on lore, and just drops that he thinks they can be scum together. Nice and pretty and ready to push on d3 after soup flips scum. he later lightly qualifies this later which is + but i dont ****in buy that hed pass up that sweet sweet ml come d3 (but i guess well never knowwwww). Pythag read is bad, aight town ran read, and the rest of the reads are nonreads and baseless townreads. THERE IS MINIMAL PROGRESSION TO HIS READS and if theres one person throughout the Day who looks like theyre comfortable being stuck until d3, its fanny. And from then to eod he didn’t do much else aside from exist and chime in inconsequentially. Quite scum, very die.

imo, if we lynch in the bottom 4, town wins.

vote: fandangox
 

#HBC | marshy

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Fandangox Fandangox

depends on flips tbh.

I'm interested in FF/Marshy interactions.
I was also interested in you, but that's coming up kinda null.

As for soup/lore...
I've also been trying to factor in the fact that so many people consider soup scum. it certainly hurts having never played with him and seeing AtE used in such a way as Ryker and you just mentioned. I think even Kary wrote "I have written down to never trust PR claims from soup" Up until this most recent post by ryker and you, I thought everyone was kinda taking the piss. This makes me seriously rethink some things.


On the other hand, why would he claim oracle, as he literally only becomes useful to town when he's lynched?
I don't get why everyone wanted to kill an oracle claim before they even get to do anything, that doesn't make much sense to me. So I'm about to go relook what happened post claim.

soup definitely seems to be the play today though,

If he's town and truthful, we open up another townie, while removing all the suspicion from him from the game and learning a LOT through his lynch,
if he's scum, we eliminate scum and learn a LOT through his lynch

Seems smart to me.

vote soup
the whole way pythag went about this is scummy. hes not focusing on soups actual play. its just a mechanical justification for goin him prefaced with a lot of wishy washy language. reads like cautious scum
 

#HBC | marshy

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I’m stuck in traffic right now, phone posting.

I did a reread on soup (not in traffic), and was unimpressed.

More happy with my vote on soup.

Soup was speechless at Ryker.

All kinda seems like “why me fry me”
this was 40 minutes before deadline

before this, he had posted 3 hours before deadline

what townie decides to wait til the last 4 hours of the phase to reread the leading wagon? looks fake af
 
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Oh look I changed this
I did a re-read (only got to D1 though)

I was wrong on Ran.

Below are my notes basically copy pasted, but I'll try to do a brief summary that explains my reasoning.

Soup's #99 Is the first post in the game to turn suspicion on Spak

Soup immediately goes for the joke Ryker post after a serious Spak post.

Soup's #114 Throws more shade at spak

Lore defends Spak as being Town due to meta on #115

Marshy points out Soup's inconsitency on his #127

Ran's #146 thinks Soup is scum due to Soup's response to Marshy's #127

Soup's #148 to Ran seems like a weird response for what was a normal post.

Soup continues overreacting to Ran's post on #167, could be a distancing attempt?

Gorf points out Soup's reaction to Ran as of his #264

Ran says he likes Lore wagon more than Soup's on #305

Orange's #325 seems like a fair response to Ran about how moving votes in RVS is not scummy.

Ran's #327 is his reasoning for swappign to an Orange wagon, says he agrees with Gorf.

Ran defends Soup on his #331, stating Soup was the first person to suspect Spak, and that would be
indicative of Soup being town. However he is aware that Soup did a vote joke immediately after that
(he liked Marshy's #127) and calls him out, scumreading him due to his response to Marshy on that.
This makes his reasoning for townreading Soup at this point contradictory.

Ran's case on Spak: #332 and why he thinks spak is scum.

Kary points out Ran's inconsistency on #351

Ran goes back and forth a lot townreading and scumreading Soup. #444 #500

Ran cements being fine with either on #552

Ran decides #574 Soup is the play. Says Lore and Soup could be scum together.

#599 Ryker speculates Soup being Rolecop. thinkingemojie.jpg

Soup townreads Ran on #642 may be worth discussing why.

When I asked Soup what he thought about Ran's reasoning for scumreading Lore and Soup together
he gives me a non-answer #662 I continue pressing him for it and still no answer. #674 #685

Ran clarifies he is ready to vote Soup #694

Discuss with town if Ran and Soup's interactions are faked on page 18. Specially Soup's Soup's #717

Gorf in #744 asks Ryker to consider if he might be wrong on Soup, and that Soup is worth keeping post-claim
in case he is telling the truth to get at least one action.

Ryker confident still on staying on Soup #747

Ran says on #748 Soup is playing with a survival mindset, and explains why his claim doesnt make
him town, but Ran swaps to Orange on #763

Gorf again tries to convince Ryker off the Soup wagon #762

Ryker agrees to follow along on #766 since Gorf says he would not let Soup go past day 2.

Ran says Orange is a good competing wagon on #801

Ryker votes Lore on #812, says to consider him "still on Soup"

Ryker's case on Spak is between posts #832 and #845

Ran says Soup's AtE is manufactered and has done so as scum on his #924

Lore's #943 a good insight on Ran's inconsistencies.

Gorf's expands on why he believes is worth to Keep soup alive at least one phase, and why his claim wouldn't
make much sense from a scum PoV. #1,015

Ran's #1,022 indicates doubts on Lore being scum together with Soup. Unvotes Spak, and says he is on Soup
"In Spirit"

Kary Unvotes Soup. #1,037 Still confident Lore is town, thinks Orange has to go.

Ran votes Soup #1,052 "The play is right under our noses. Vote Soup." #1,055

Ran answers to Soup "I'd look into FF" When Soup asks what would he do if He flips town. #1,064

Ran leaves the Soup wagon, says he is doubting Soup my be scum now #1,092

On short. I think the most important aspect of why I think Ran is scum starts at his #331. He likes Soup cause he was the first one to look into Spak, but doesn't seem anything wrong with Soup just doing an almost hammer on Ryker as a "joke" right after. Thats when he makes a case on Spak shortly after, but didn't vote him. He then goes back and forth between townreading and scumreadign Soup, before deciding firmly that he is scum, but then still leaves the wagon at a pivotal point, despite sounding very confident that Soup is scum even saying he is "the play"

Vote: Ranmaru
 
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Oh look I changed this
a lot of Ran's post try to set up Lore and Soup as scum together, I admittedly did agree both were very scummy, but as Lore replied to Soup's AtE I abandoned the idea, Ran may have been setting Lore as a myslynch after Soup's flip.

Also Gorf you were one of the ones to spearhead the Orange Wagon, and your other scumlean FF, and your lowest Null Tom just flipped as Town.

You also left the Soup wagon D2 and joined Lore's after Kevin brought it up.

Gorf was also the one to convince Ryker to leave the Soup wagon D1.

If Ranmaru is scum, Gorf is the last teamate.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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bro dont use me making a competing wagon out of lore against me you shady bitxh i just wanted some sssssspice... and we got it

and now its your job to prove why my bad play was scum motivated instead of just stating things that i did. sure theres implicit implications on why those things are bad on a surface level, but town plays ****ty too.

cant hate on your ran read tho
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I am currently doing the highest level content available to me in FFXIV with friends. I'll be in here hella late, as is tradition.

I had intended to come out hard on FF, but that doesn't appear to be necessary anymore.

I like most of Gorf's read list. I flip Kevin and Fanny on it. I do not agree with either.

I'll do my reads list tonight.
 
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