Who's Better? Pit or Dark Pit? Just a Matchup Preference?

[AndrewtheAmericanDude]

So during Sm4sh I saw a lot of talk regarding which Pit was better and it seemed like the most consistent argument was that Pit's arrows are more useful and therefore he is more consistent. But now Ultimate has hit, we have engine changes, I see Dark Pit get used more, and some seem to think he's better. What's consensus over here? I haven't seen as many Pit defenses. I always use Pit but figure I can use Dark Pit for some match ups. This could just be a matter of match ups but I've seen some say there's a gap. I've gotten better at using the arrow to scout for a gimp but I still see some Pit's just repeatedly quickfire arrows to stuff out a recovery until it fails, even an Inkling recovery. I still can't do that yet so I wonder if I'm getting the most out of my choice.

Thoughts? Is there even a gap worth talking about?

 

[Kiligar]

I main dank pit because he looks cooler, but to put it into serious consideration it depends on the matchup. Dark Pit can challenge zoners such as the Links and Samus due to his superior arrow speed. Pit can gimp anyone with a recovery equal to or less than Lucina’s, so long as your aim is on point. Dark Pit has a harder time gimping, but if your arrow hits while their percent is in the red, all those mentioned with pit won’t be able to make it back due to higher knockback. The Dark Pit snipes are harder but more rewarding, the pit snipes are more consistent. On stage, Pit’s arrows are nearly useless, due to low damage, speed and hitstun. He can still use them to assist in juggling, which is very useful. Pit has superior matchups against DK, Bowser, Mario, Ganondorf, Ike and Chrom. Dark Pit has superior matchups against Palutena, Zelda, Mewtwo, Pichu and the Links. The characters mentioned for Pit, all have easily gimpable recovery, many have big hit boxes, and bad disadvantage states. For Dark Pit, teleport recovery makes gimping near useless, so his arrows are better for use on stage. Pichu’s recovery is near a teleport in speed, but he’s so light that if DP’s arrow hits offstage in the red, he’s often dead, while Pit can’t do anything about that. Try both pits in a variety of matchups to see for yourself.

 

[MangoPeachey]

Dank Pit is indeed a lot cooler, he's basically just Pit but with link arrows

 

[Phyras]

The "engine" give you only one dodge, and those purple arrows are scary.
And blue arrows ? Those are stressing.

On stage, Pit’s arrows are nearly useless, due to low damage, speed and hitstun.

They can be really annoying tho, to play on your opponent nerves. (Harassing isn't the same than spamming).
Pit Arrows aren't only meant to gimp, it can do many things with some imagination, like poking on your way back to the stage or clashing against low damages projectiles (up to 12% when non-charged) with tricky angles.
On my point of view, the dark pit projectile is just a straight forward projectile that can kill a dead man, theoretically, it can be canceled out by aerials.
Pit arrows are multipurpose and can be a great conditioning tool.
I'm trading a machete for a Swiss army knife.

About the Side B, i'm pretty sure Pits have stronger punishes than side b for any situations or any reads. Side b is just a recovery option that doesn't let you helpless (but still punishable).

 

[MangoPeachey]

Would using dark pit arrow against recoveries like fox side b make any sense? I'm just trying to find a use for the dark pit arrow because pit arrow seems to top it in every way

WAIT I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING. Can Pit arrow jablock?

 

[Kiligar]

Would using dark pit arrow against recoveries like fox side b make any sense? I'm just trying to find a use for the dark pit arrow because pit arrow seems to top it in every way

WAIT I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING. Can Pit arrow jablock?

I don’t get it when people say Pits arrow is simply better. They each have their own strengths, and on stage Dark Pit’s is better at controlling space. It’s less reactable since it’s much faster, it’s much stronger, doing nearly twice as much damage, and has more hitstun, which means it’s better for interrupting the opponent. Pit’s arrow is better for those with bad disadvantage states and recovery, such as Ike, but Dark Pit’s arrows are far from outclassed. I recommend you watch Len vs Dhir on YouTube for an example, Len being the most skilled Dark Pit main I’ve seen so far. As for the jab-lock, I did kill someone who missed a tech in sudden death with Pit’s arrow, so it could have potential.

 

[MangoPeachey]

I guess I think Pit arrows are better because they can catch people under ledge while dark arrows are very limited to onstage play. Onstage, dark arrow are definitely better because they add actual pressure, and offstage pit's arrows are better because of the amount of damage from multiple arrows and possibility of getting gimped

 

[Obunga]

So during Sm4sh I saw a lot of talk regarding which Pit was better and it seemed like the most consistent argument was that Pit's arrows are more useful and therefore he is more consistent. But now Ultimate has hit, we have engine changes, I see Dark Pit get used more, and some seem to think he's better. What's consensus over here? I haven't seen as many Pit defenses. I always use Pit but figure I can use Dark Pit for some match ups. This could just be a matter of match ups but I've seen some say there's a gap. I've gotten better at using the arrow to scout for a gimp but I still see some Pit's just repeatedly quickfire arrows to stuff out a recovery until it fails, even an Inkling recovery. I still can't do that yet so I wonder if I'm getting the most out of my choice.

Thoughts? Is there even a gap worth talking about?

I personally feel that dark pit is better. The reason I say this is because his side-b has more kill power, making it a better option and ledge get-up punish. it moves about as fast as pits, but has more kill power. The neutral b arrow is also more powerful than pits. It can't be manipulated as much, but it's still good in neutral. i think side b is powerful enough to be a better tool than pits aiming arrows.

 

[MangoPeachey]

I personally feel that dark pit is better. The reason I say this is because his side-b has more kill power, making it a better option and ledge get-up punish. it moves about as fast as pits, but has more kill power. The neutral b arrow is also more powerful than pits. It can't be manipulated as much, but it's still good in neutral. i think side b is powerful enough to be a better tool than pits aiming arrows.

Using side b as a ledge getup punish is kind of a joke, just fsmash because it's faster. Generally, both of their side b's are pretty hard to land and are just used to grab ledge (if they have some other realistic application then I don't know of it). But I kind of agree with you saying dark pit side b is better, since it rewards you more for tech chase reads and ledge getup reads.

 

[AndrewtheAmericanDude]

I personally feel that dark pit is better. The reason I say this is because his side-b has more kill power, making it a better option and ledge get-up punish. it moves about as fast as pits, but has more kill power. The neutral b arrow is also more powerful than pits. It can't be manipulated as much, but it's still good in neutral. i think side b is powerful enough to be a better tool than pits aiming arrows.

I wonder about that though because isnt Dark Pit's side special mostly only better near the ledge? For something as slow as the pit side special, that doesn't seem that good. Pit's kills a bit later but because it sends them up it can kill from anywhere making it more consistent. When I fish for DP side special on ledge I just feel so telegraphed as opposed to say, forward throw, which is similarly dependent on being near the ledge, but that's far faster than electroshock which can just get blocked.

That's my thoughts so far

 

[Tobb99]

I think Pit is probably better in general. But Dark Pit is also pretty good. I think that Pit's arrows can be good at covering diagonally above Pit, which is an area I struggle a bit covering as U-air isn't the best, and nair is ok. But since you can angle Pit's arrows, you can easily poke people who try to annoy you from that angle (like Link's bomb camping, snake camping and other platform camping). Otherwise Dark Pit's arrows are stronger and faster, which is good horizontal play in neutral, and for edgeguards, they have to attack or air-dodge since the arrow is so strong. And I think Pit's side-b is a bit better since it KO's of the top. But that could also be a match-up thing, I could see Pit's side-b be better against lighter and floatier characters and Dark Pit's better against heavier characters and characters with poor recovery. I'd say that the gap between the 2 is smaller than in smash 4, where Pit was a lot better due to arrows and f-tilt.

 

[CoyoteFlavoring]

Pit's Arrow allows for some creative reads especially when conditioning opponent.

Dark Pit Arrow Snipes make me smile the best.

I like Pit in matchups with lighter opponents or when I can really punish and gimp with well placed arrows (Ganon, Ike etc)

Dark Pit is the for the characters that Pit has a hard time KOing but the change in ground game is a bit different.

In conclusion maining the Pits will teach you the engine... and you'll eventually find an opponent that you just wish you were and be gracious for the fundamentals.

 

[Orlando BCN]

They’re literally the exact same character, except Pit’s arrows are much better for zoning. But I always liked playing as Dark Pit anyway.

 

[LightKnight]

Seems to be the safer and more consistent of the two, especially in a skilled player's hands.
Seems to have more pressure and KO power.
Being at the ledge against him can be scary because of a powerful armor move coming out of nowhere and the opponent might try shielding more, opening them up more often to his grabs if the Dark Pit conditions the opponent correctly. This may make the opponent want to be around center stage more but so long as their on the ground Dark Pit has good pressure with his arrows and can even force low recoveries against opponents, potentially setting them up for a spike. While arrows from normal Pit would be the safer option (as you won't take any damage for it) I think going offstage can be just about as rewarding as he has many aerials for contesting off ledge. It is riskier though if you fail the edge-guard with his exploitable recovery but I personally find it worthwhile in order to gain more power and speed with Dark Pit's arrows along with his powerful electroshock.

Of course, its probably just best to pick either Pits depending on the matchup so long as your comfortable with both characters. But I have yet to see such a chart.
This isn't really meant to be an answer to your question per say but more so just my observations.

 

[Kiligar]

Dark Pit arrow nerfs are not good for him in comparison to Pit. I’ll have to analyze the changes to the shield damage more as well as the uses of the arrows, but that patch was a disappointment. No matter, I’ll use every possible tool Dark Pit’s arrows have over Pit. They’re faster, travel further, and deal more hitstun. The speed and hitstun may extend or start combos. We’ll have to see.

 

[Vistra31]

They are basically the same. I just wanted to see side B trajectories and they appear to have the same distance at 0 as a Pit/Dark Pit double jump making any combos not really possible. Their only other difference is arrows which cannot allow any attacks until the arrow is a significant distance away. I like to think of it as Pit's arrows work better as an anti air and Dark Pit arrows work better on grounded opponents or there's a matchup where a character has to recover level with the stage but even then you have to put your opponent there in the first place. I say they aren't different at all. Even their combos don't have differences.

 

[CoyoteFlavoring]

Their only other difference is arrows which cannot allow any attacks until the arrow is a significant distance away. I like to think of it as Pit's arrows work better as an anti air and Dark Pit arrows work better on grounded opponents.

Canceling arrows by steering them into the ground is a significant advantage for Pit in grounded mid range mixups. I'm actually not sure why it's not brought up more.

Probably because using B in nuetral is stupid as ****. I need to stop.


As I've played more and more with both Pits... they really are the pits. The frame 4 jab helped in a lot of matchups as well as the +10 initial knockback on the DAIR but this character is simply too fair.

 

[NCSU | KAI]

Canceling arrows by steering them into the ground is a significant advantage for Pit in grounded mid range mixups. I'm actually not sure why it's not brought up more.

Probably because using B in nuetral is stupid as ****. I need to stop.

Yeah I was about to say hahah. Neutral B in neutral is NOT it Chief. If you've got a good read and situation, I suppose going for a tech chase on an opponent at mid range for a jab reset might be good, but I don't really agree that it represents a significant advantage. Now, don't get me wrong, arrows are great, and if you need to play more campy or try to apply pressure at mid range, arrow can be a good tool for it, but steering them into the ground just to steer them into the ground?? Just position yourself better and play less aggro

 

[J.B.]

Faster arrows are better for hitting opponents on stage or otherwise right in front of you. Extremely angle-able arrows are better for hitting opponents offstage. Upperdash Arm is useful for light opponents on stages with a low ceiling. Electroshock arm is more useful against opponents with limited recoveries that rely on vertical movement. In my opinion, they're similar enough that playing one and not the other is illogical, but different enough that calling them the same is trifling.

 

[BitBitio]

Well let's see.
has the blue arrows. They're a bit slower, a bit weaker, but also have much more control over their trajectory. Therefore, it functions as an edgeguarding or zoning tool. It is better at juggling because you can maneuver them to hit evasive opponents. Ultimate's new engine benefits Pit's arrows more, because the airdodges were nerfed so he can hit more consistently. Dark Pit also benefits, but not as much since they have less control. Also, he can deal with low-profiling characters like Kirby or WFT better because he can aim them into the ground. Pit also has the upperdash arm. The thing is, his launches opponents upward. This makes it a consistent kill move regardless of horizontal position and it can potentially take very early stocks if he and the opponent are close to the blastline. However, it does not become stronger at the edge.
has the purple arrows. They're quicker, stronger, but more linear. They function as a more standard projectile. They have more killpower and damage output. This makes them more viable for killing but also can be more dangerous if reflected. They're worse for juggling and edgeguarding, but make better keep-away tools and, while being harder to snipe with, are more rewarding to hit. He also has electroshock arm, which launches at a lower angle and deals more damage but less knockback in comparison. It can be better on tech-chases and kills waaaaaaaaaaaay earlier at the ledge but it is otherwise weaker. It also actually hits very slightly less consistently because its hitbox is marginally off in terms of the z-axis.

Overall, is more consistent as a character. He kills the same regardless of location with side-b which is important, at the expense of kill power on the edge. This also lets him set up juggles easier. His arrows, while less rewarding, are much easier to hit with, allowing you to do about the same amount of damage realistically. With precision, they prove to be a stage control option as well. They are better for juggling and edgeguarding, and can extend combos too.

On the flip side, is more volatile. He can kill way earlier at the edge but suffers everywhere else. He can hit opponents offstage easier with his side-b because it has diagonal knockback but can't hit them once they're there as easily because his arrows aren't built that way. His arrows are more conventional in that they are stronger and faster but much less versatile, giving him a hard time using them in edgeguarding and juggling.

I think that has the edge overall. He is more consistent and less risky, letting him get the reward that gets as well simply by virtue of his more cohesive tools (ie, his side-b sets up his juggling arrows way better) and he can deal with most situations more safely. His neutral is probably slightly worse but his advantage is better.

 

[Firox]

A) Dark Pit is edgier
B) Dark Pit has cooler alts
C) Dark Pit isn't a Palutena suck-up
D) Dark Pit's theme song's got some sweet Spanish guitar riffs in it

When weighted against their almost identical movesets, the winner is clear. >

 

[Zenpie]

I always preferred Dark Pit because I like his arrows and Electroshock. Plus he got more drip.

 

[Scion of Yggdrasil]

Pit! "Gold" Pit to be specific. Especially when you can dish out 3 arrows in the time it takes someone to recover from far off the edge. I'm le tired...I don't wanna fly out there to finish the job... *misses x3* ugh *flap flap flap YEET* I think it boils down to whos arrows you want.

 

[Scion of Yggdrasil]

Yeah I was about to say hahah. Neutral B in neutral is NOT it Chief. If you've got a good read and situation, I suppose going for a tech chase on an opponent at mid range for a jab reset might be good, but I don't really agree that it represents a significant advantage. Now, don't get me wrong, arrows are great, and if you need to play more campy or try to apply pressure at mid range, arrow can be a good tool for it, but steering them into the ground just to steer them into the ground?? Just position yourself better and play less aggro

I try to reserve my arrows for mid combo, or to close a combo (one last sassy "stay down") vs using them to open combos. Opening combos with ranged attacks is too predictable. Mid combo arrows will interrupt whatever shenanigans they might try (counter, or even causes them to give up the retaliation and evade), so you can land your next attack/special. Of course, punishment arrows (i.e. when they miss their attack or misstep) are always welcome at any time haha. Edge guarding with arrows is a safe alternative to aerial harassment, although nuetral aerial is the best at pushing targets out (large hit box and long animation).

And lastly, arrows are a great protection against edge guarders. You have plenty of jumps and a ridiculous up B, so don't be afraid to linger off the edge, especially if it means baiting them out for you to retaliate.

 

[Ridley64]

It always feels like Dark Pits side b has more damage. Is that weird?

 

[Scion of Yggdrasil]

It always feels like Dark Pits side b has more damage. Is that weird?

I thought it did? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Dark Pits arrows do slightly more dmg, not sure about his side B... they definitely launch difference directions though.

 

[Ridley64]

I thought it did? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Dark Pits arrows do slightly more dmg, not sure about his side B... they definitely launch difference directions though.

It definitely feels more satisfying.

 

[Scion of Yggdrasil]

It definitely feels more satisfying.

And just looks cooler imo. Pit has what looks like a 90's blow up boxing glove toy lol. Dark pit... well im not sure what his looks like, but its elaborate and zappy! lol

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Too bad he is just a worse version of the original