Who is in the second "Tier" of players, after the Elite 5?

[SillyGoose]

It has been long established who the elite 5 are. People have recently brought up discussion of a second tier of players under that one, usually including:

Wobbles
Pewpewu
Hax
Axe
Shroomed
Kirbykaze
Leffen

What are the criteria for being on this list of players - is it just having a reasonable chance to take a set off of the elite 5? Should this class contain more players (Fly, Sfat, Zhu, Ice, Silent Wolf, Westballz) or less? Which ones?

Does Wobbles deserve the "official" 6th spot? Pewpewu or Hax the 7th?

Sorry if this has been brought up before

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

What about Javi/Taj?

 

[SillyGoose]

What about Javi/Taj?

Ummmm... exactly the point of the thread. who do you think belongs? why?

personally, I expect more consistency from these players. Javi and Taj both had one great tournament

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I don't think I have much business being considered for that group.

 

[Silent Wolf]

based on results at nationals the last 2 years or so, or even just more recently than that, id say shroomed deserves the 6th spot and hax deserves the 7th spot.

 

[SillyGoose]

I don't think I have much business being considered for that group.

Damn fly, you live on the boards. Do you get some kind of email alert every time a new thread is posted in your domain? Also its very reasonable to expect you to finish just under the top 5, and I don't think anyone would be flabbergasted if you took a set off one

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Its sort of hard to tell. The only real proof would be tourney results in recent times. If you want to look at international players it gets a lot harder to tell because so few of them I think are as regular as Armada, Kirbykaze, and a few others have been. Apex 2012, Apex 2013, and Evo are the only couple of tournaments that come to mind for nationals. I know I am missing a couple of others. Even then, it gets harder to pin down since tournaments quickly deteriorate further down the standings. So, I'd really only contain results to like top 8 and top 16 at the lowest.

http://smashboards.com/threads/evo-2013-final-results.338559/
Evo Results
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...hread-jan-11-13-2013-new-brunswick-nj.332658/
Apex 2013 Results
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...results-up-international-takes-it-all.316696/
Apex 2012 Results

From these three tournaments and others I'd put KirbyKaze/Shroomed at the top for certain. I cannot really think of a tournament where Shroomed wasn't in the top 8 and on the rare occasion ever dropping below top 16. For good measure, Hax and KirbyKaze. I never really paid attention to anyone else.

 

[Hax]

I think it's only fair to say Wobbles 6th, Shroomed 7th, me 8th

edit: I'm pretty sure that I like myself over Dajuan though. I was just trying to go based on results. I stand a better chance vs the top 5 IMO and 2-0'd him the last time we played tournament. no disrespect Dajuan!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I think it's only fair to say Wobbles 6th, Shroomed 7th, me 8th

Apex 2012 top 12
Apex 2013 Top 24
Evo 2nd (wobbling legal).

How is Wobbles suppose to be "6th spot" again? I'd go with Shroom's consistency.

 

[SillyGoose]

Hard not to put Wobbles at 6th after Evo, where he beat mango, pp, shroomed, and even hbox who hasn't been upset since like kirbykaze 18 months ago. Not to mention he's been surprisingly consistent for years, getting solid wins off ppu, axe, and m2k and only really faltering at apex 2013 where he still got 17th and lost to 2 peaches

In my mind it's Wobbles > Hax > PPU > Shroomed. but I'd love to see Hax, KK and PPU all play each other, never happened to my knowledge

 

[Iron Dragon]

What's the point in putting Wobbles if he doesn't play anymore? Haha.

I'd say putting Shroomed 6th by purely results is fair, but that by using Doc alone he is prone to being bumped further down the list later on when other players become better or are better against Doc, and so on.

I think Hax also has a lot of players he COULD lose to, but the fact that he beats them (even if the win is because of something jank) says a lot because it's still on said player to win.

So for reasons of results alone, Shroomed 6th probably, though Hax is pretty close. And in the future if Hax still plays with the same consistency he has, and as people get better, he'll probably be 6th.

I personally subscribe to Mew2King's belief that Leffen is 6th though =P

 

[Mew2King]

wobbles 6th, some order of leffen/hax/sfat/ppu/shroomed/axe/kk?/unknown?/zhu? afterwords.

 

[Silent Wolf]

wobbles 6th, some order of leffen/hax/sfat/ppu/shroomed/axe/kk?/unknown?/zhu? afterwords.

prettttty sure id be in there too lol. i outplaced sfat and zhu at apex, lanhammer and evo (tied with sfat tho). and outplaced/tied with axe at evo/apex. and beat ppu. and leffens never outplaced me at a tournament, whereas ive outplaced him a couple times.

no credit for the wolf lol

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Only Wobbles, Hax, KK, and Shroomed have placed top 10 in nationals on a consistent basis.

I also think Leffen, PPU and SW (I see you SW) also have made a case for A tier now based on recent results, and the next tier down from that begins with Unknown/Axe/Javi

 

[KishPrime]

I always felt that to be second tier, you had to be in a group where you occasionally beat the top tier and pretty much beat everyone beneath you with very few exceptions.

If someone hasn't beaten a top tier (5) player at least one time in the past year, they're probably not really second tier unless they literally lose to no one beneath that group and beat up on other second tiers.

 

[Bieber]

i think shroomed wobbles hax and axe should be in a special little "we're amazing but our characters are not" tier

 

[Frame Perfect]

you mean elite 6, any one of those guyz coulda taken evo

 

[Ezzee]

As far as international players go, I think Amsah and Ice are being over looked. I can't give too many recent tournament results on Amsah, but I know he's competed against and beaten Armada a few times. As for Ice, he did just make top 8 at EVO, and his play style is incredibly similar to M2K's. As for the US, I feel like S2J is being overlooked. He's inconsistent, but I feel he's as good as Hax when he's playing well. I think he's worth a mention

 

[Divinokage]

Ive also beaten a number of those players listed but im definitely not top 10.

 

[Beat!]

As far as international players go, I think Amsah and Ice are being over looked. I can't give too many recent tournament results on Amsah, but I know he's competed against and beaten Armada a few times. As for Ice, he did just make top 8 at EVO, and his play style is incredibly similar to M2K's. As for the US, I feel like S2J is being overlooked. He's inconsistent, but I feel he's as good as Hax when he's playing well. I think he's worth a mention

Amsah isn't overlooked, he's just more or less retired. He was rightfully considered a contender for top 5 back when he was still active and performing well (Pound 4/5).

 

[BTmoney]

I always felt that to be second tier, you had to be in a group where you occasionally beat the top tier and pretty much beat everyone beneath you with very few exceptions.

If someone hasn't beaten a top tier (5) player at least one time in the past year, they're probably not really second tier unless they literally lose to no one beneath that group and beat up on other second tiers.

I'm not sure how I feel about that definition but IIRC for the sake of contribution outside of Armada, PP, Mango, and Hbox Unknown plays head and shoulders better vs M2k than anyone else. Epecially as a Fox. And he plays super well vs Hbox.( But losses to Hax if I'm not mistaken.)

 

[Strabisamus]

PPU. It seems like this guys hasnt plateaued yet...he always seems to have new things to offer when he plays. But im probably abit biased as i watch him more than the other guys haha

 

[JKJ]

#6 Wobbles
#7 Hax
#8 Shroomed
#9 Ice
#10 Leffen
#11 KirbyKaze
#12 Axe
#13 PewPewU
#14 SFAT
#15 Unknown
#16 Silent Wolf
#17 Bladewise

 

[Ziodyne]

Woah woah, I think making that strict of a ranking is pretty open to error

I mean come on, none of the results these players get are consistent enough to warrant THAT sort of ranking man. After Wobbles (and hell, even including Wobbles), I'd say there's a good leeway for movement among that list, though Wobbles, Hax, and Shroomed are probably the most deserving of their spots atm

 

[KrIsP!]

People up for second tier debate I'd say are

Javi ppu wobbles hax shroomed unknown leffen zhu kk ( if he plays sheik again) and silent wolf, axe and ice too I guess.

And I'll throw out an honorable mention to vwins if he starts traveling again. Dude was amazing at apex, I'd give him best peach with armada retired.

 

[Jockmaster]

Here are the shoe-ins
-Hax
-Wobbles
-Shroomed
-KirbyKaze (though he hasn't really done much lately)

Below those are a much larger handful of really good players with less consistent/big name wins
-Javi
-Silent Wolf
-Unknown
-Kage
-S2J
-Leffen
-Ice
-PPU
-SFAT
-Axe
-Fly

and probably a few others I am forgetting

 

[Bones0]

RIP SSBPD

 

[Mew2King]

yea i forgot silent wolf and javi and ice