Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Bowser's Whirling Fortress (
} on the ground is most notable for being an excellent OoS option for block punishing aggressive aerials. But there's another use for it that I hope to see more players try out. Whirling Fortress can cover all four ledge hang options of every character. Those options of course being Get-up, Jump, Attack, and Roll. By paying attention to the opponent starting the animation for any of these, Bowser can indeed use Fortress on reaction for consistent damage. This is because of the move's quick (frame 6) startup, and rehit rate. If any vulnerable target passes into Fortress at any point of its duration, they're stuck for the rest of the move. And all ledge options have at least one frame of vulnerability before they can even bring up shield.
That's it. That's the gist of what I want to tell players. The rest of the thread will be dedicated to further research and discussion. Subtopics will be written here in the OP as separate "articles". I hope you'll read them. It's a lot of lab-tested talk about why this works and what you can do to make it even better.
That's all for now. Happy spinning.
} on the ground is most notable for being an excellent OoS option for block punishing aggressive aerials. But there's another use for it that I hope to see more players try out. Whirling Fortress can cover all four ledge hang options of every character. Those options of course being Get-up, Jump, Attack, and Roll. By paying attention to the opponent starting the animation for any of these, Bowser can indeed use Fortress on reaction for consistent damage. This is because of the move's quick (frame 6) startup, and rehit rate. If any vulnerable target passes into Fortress at any point of its duration, they're stuck for the rest of the move. And all ledge options have at least one frame of vulnerability before they can even bring up shield.That's it. That's the gist of what I want to tell players. The rest of the thread will be dedicated to further research and discussion. Subtopics will be written here in the OP as separate "articles". I hope you'll read them. It's a lot of lab-tested talk about why this works and what you can do to make it even better.
My best advice is for Bowser to stand directly on top of the ledge. As close as you can get. If you're familiar with the spacing for bombing to a ledge in a way that lets you grab it, then your spacing must be closer to the ledge than even this short distance. All characters have a differently shaped hitbox at the point they become vulnerable, and the most difficult ledge option to hit at this point of vulnerability is ledge jump. If you're not this close to the edge, Fortress is only guaranteed to cover the other three.
The other issue is ledge roll, which of course places them farthest from the edge at their point of vulnerability. Fortress' ability to move along the ground for its duration is what lets us cover this option as well. You shouldn't have trouble reacting to them in time to catch up.
The other issue is ledge roll, which of course places them farthest from the edge at their point of vulnerability. Fortress' ability to move along the ground for its duration is what lets us cover this option as well. You shouldn't have trouble reacting to them in time to catch up.
Because any other attack that you try to use for covering ledge options is not guaranteed to work. Fortress will not kill under reasonable circumstances, nor does it deal a lot of damage, but it's fast startup and rehit rate are key. If you used, say, a tilt instead, you're gambling on a few active frames to hit one of their four options that all become vulnerable at different points in time. And it's not really possible to tell which of the four options they're doing at the point they start moving. With Fortress, there is no guesswork, no read necessary. It's free damage until they find some other, riskier way past you. Risky options like the one we're talking about in the next article.
There is indeed a "fifth" ledge option in Smash Bros. Where you let go of the ledge manually, and double jump onstage with an aerial. I know only one name for this. We tend to use "ledge hop aerial" but that name gets it commonly confused with ledge jump. I will refer to this as ledge hop in hopes that readers know the difference. Ledge hops can very well defeat Fortress. So you want to watch out for them letting go of the ledge. Remember, letting go of the ledge immediately takes away the character's remaining I-frames, and they will stop flashing white. Look for this absence of flashing and their fall animation as you hover a finger over your shield button. Ledge hop aerials all have a weakness to being blocked. And Bowser can get some mean block punishes with them right next to you on the ground, at the ledge like that. Primarily Shieldgrab, Dtilt, and Bowser Bomb.
There are a few characters who have ledge hop options that directly beat this strategy. Aerial command grabs from Bowser, Wario, Ganondorf, Diddy Kong, and Mewtwo can hit you right through your shield, so you must instead use attacks to cover yourself instead of shield if they know about this strategy.
There are a few characters who have ledge hop options that directly beat this strategy. Aerial command grabs from Bowser, Wario, Ganondorf, Diddy Kong, and Mewtwo can hit you right through your shield, so you must instead use attacks to cover yourself instead of shield if they know about this strategy.
Dsmash has no rehit rate. Looking at the frame data, there's a one frame period between hits where no hitbox is active. But it's guaranteed to catch Ledge Roll and ledge attack due to them having more than two or more frames of vulnerability. And a 66% chance it will catch Get Up's one frame of vulnerability. Ledge Jump is also possible, but only if you space in a way that gives up the possibility of catching ledge roll. Add to that Dsmash's slower startup, less duration of active hits, and you've got a lot of issues using this move over Fortress. But it's miles better than throwing other attacks blindly in hopes that they work. It's primarily good aspect is more damage and the potential for a kill when it does work. And that may be enough for Bowser mains to consider if their opponent is past 100% damage.
You can find frame data on the four specific ledge options on KuroganeHammer's website. The first vulnerable frame for all characters is 15-23 for Ledge Attack, 31-35 for Ledge Getup (and 44 for the Miis, and Palutena exclusively), 13-17 for Ledge Jump, and 22-34 for Ledge Roll. To cover all of these, Fortress must become active no later than on frame 13 of them beginning to move. Fortress' startup is 6 frames, so for the very fastest ledge jump, the player must have input the move with only 8 frames reaction timing. This is the hardest scenario, but a player that focuses on their opponent's animations at the ledge should be capable of performing Fortress within this small time frame.
I have more information to share from my own testing. Upon grabbing a ledge, characters hold the ledge for 19-20 frames before Ledge Roll, Attack, and Jump can begin. Furthermore, ledge Get up and letting go of the ledge to enter a fall state cannot be done until two frames after that. These two options specifically cannot be buffered actions like the other three. But the most important point to make here is that, if you're not in position for Fortress by the time they grab ledge, you have at the very least 20 frames to get to that position. And most players tend to wait at the ledge and consider their options anyway.
I have more information to share from my own testing. Upon grabbing a ledge, characters hold the ledge for 19-20 frames before Ledge Roll, Attack, and Jump can begin. Furthermore, ledge Get up and letting go of the ledge to enter a fall state cannot be done until two frames after that. These two options specifically cannot be buffered actions like the other three. But the most important point to make here is that, if you're not in position for Fortress by the time they grab ledge, you have at the very least 20 frames to get to that position. And most players tend to wait at the ledge and consider their options anyway.
I am not suggesting that Bowser use this trick in place of conventional edgeguarding. Offstage aerials, ledge trumping, etc all have varying ranges of viability that players may definitely find comfortable or easy, especially with certain matchups. The truth is, Bowser can perform some edgeguarding techniques and still be on the ledge to perform Fortress in time to catch ledge options. Understanding what I mean requires good understanding of the frames behind ledge options, which are covered in the previous article.
Fortress can be applied as a tactic for when your chosen means of defending the ledge has failed. By keeping in mind how it takes 20 frames for a buffered ledge option to begin, and Fortress' 6 frame startup, there's quite a few moves that Bowser can perform, fail, then use Fortress to knock them back out there to try again. Let's take an example. If I stand at the ledge as they are recovering and perform a Dtilt to swipe them as they ascend toward me I have a chance of hitting them. But if my attack was mistimed, they will grab the ledge. Taking into account that Dtilt has 35 endlag for the first swipe (25 for the second), Fortress can be performed directly after this point if I notice them already in motion for a ledge option. Keeping with this specific scenario (of trying to hit with the first swipe of dtilt), if the opponent wastes no time in buffering their choice, everything is still covered by Fortress except ledge jump and most ledge attacks. And if the opponent wants to wait and consider their options first, then that Dtilt swipe was free. A down angled Ftilt to cover the ledge has less endlag (27), and is a legitimate "frame trap" by comparison. But first swipe of Dtilt and an onstage short hop Dair (40 frames landing lag) deserve special mention for their KO power and larger downward radius with their hitbox when well timed. Fire Breath to scorch them for free damage before letting them grab the ledge should also be free.
Fortress can be applied as a tactic for when your chosen means of defending the ledge has failed. By keeping in mind how it takes 20 frames for a buffered ledge option to begin, and Fortress' 6 frame startup, there's quite a few moves that Bowser can perform, fail, then use Fortress to knock them back out there to try again. Let's take an example. If I stand at the ledge as they are recovering and perform a Dtilt to swipe them as they ascend toward me I have a chance of hitting them. But if my attack was mistimed, they will grab the ledge. Taking into account that Dtilt has 35 endlag for the first swipe (25 for the second), Fortress can be performed directly after this point if I notice them already in motion for a ledge option. Keeping with this specific scenario (of trying to hit with the first swipe of dtilt), if the opponent wastes no time in buffering their choice, everything is still covered by Fortress except ledge jump and most ledge attacks. And if the opponent wants to wait and consider their options first, then that Dtilt swipe was free. A down angled Ftilt to cover the ledge has less endlag (27), and is a legitimate "frame trap" by comparison. But first swipe of Dtilt and an onstage short hop Dair (40 frames landing lag) deserve special mention for their KO power and larger downward radius with their hitbox when well timed. Fire Breath to scorch them for free damage before letting them grab the ledge should also be free.
That's all for now. Happy spinning.
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