Which Pit is better?

[Glunkus]

I know that there are (unless I'm sorely mistaken) exactly 2 differences between the Pits: Neutral B and Side B, with Pit being able to control his arrows better but deal less damage with them than Dark Pit, and with their side Bs sending at angles that can kill different characters better, with Dark Pit's being better for fastfallers and Pit's being better for floaties.

On paper, these differences look like they should balance the two out to be perfectly even. But in practice, I find that since fastfallers are the best/most played characters, Dark Pit generally has an easier time, albeit only slightly due to how hard it is to land side B.

So what are your opinions on this? Who has overall better matchups, or are they about even?

 

[LancerStaff]

Actually Electroshock tends to kill better regardless of the situation, unless you're outright launching somebody across the stage the long way. Pit's arrows are strictly better then Dark Pit's though, damage doesn't mean anything since Pit's going to land more.

There's two other differences. Pit's rapid jab finisher has bigger hitboxes, which doesn't mean anything because the rapid jab is just garbage, and their Ftilts have different amounts of knockback. Pit's kills, Dark Pit's sets up for Electroshock with some space.

Pit's usually seen as the better of the two because arrows set up for more damage and gimping with them is much safer then trying to kill with Electroshock, but if you prefer Dark Pit there's really no reason you can't use him.

 

[Ludwigvongamer (Mobtink)]

Yeah, 's arrows are trash. As for the f-tilt, I feel like wins in that category, mainly because who really uses 's f-tilt to kill? I think it's better as a combo starter to the agreeably better side-b. (It's generally a little harder to DI) Not to mention what Glunkus brought up about match ups. All this would make better, except for one thing. Since both of their gameplay is essentially just neutral game, and 's arrows are more versatile and are generaly better tools, I find that they are dead even. With being the more versatile of the two, and being the "high tier slayer-ish." Really does depend on the player.

 

[LancerStaff]

The problem with Ftilt is that, while it sets up for Electroshock very well, it's not really safe to begin with. It's strictly for a punish or read and requires another read to kill, and just doesn't accomplish much if it's used at the ledge. Ftilt does get used for kills often, just watch Earth, because it's good range and active frames make punishing getups cake.

 

[Ludwigvongamer (Mobtink)]

Really? Last time I checked, f-tilt isn't exactly the hardest move to land. And besides, wouldn't f-smash most of the time be the better option for killing? Eh, I don't even play either of them so I won't argue too much, as I see you're comfortable with both s.
Because of it's okay range, the f-tilt could, in theory, be used to space the opponent out, and if the can react in time and read appropriately, then that's quite a bit of damage from electroshock. I see what you're getting at, and at a very high level, when people can read you like crazy, and perfect shield all of your spacing options, it can be applied. But the other half of the time, I feel like you'd be able to do well with either f-tilt. Again, this is just from a mid-low level Bowser/Mac main, so what I'm saying isn't all that valid.

 

[LancerStaff]

Fsmash has more endlag and the hitboxes aren't out as long as both hits only are active for one frame each. Fsmash is really hard to land on somebody getting up as a result.

 

[Ludwigvongamer (Mobtink)]

But if you got just a plain read (like with f-tilt, as you mentioned) would the end lag not matter, as you'd hit and kill them? I can definitely see what you're getting at with the active frames, though. Two total active frames for a smash attack? Now I sorta get why f-tilt would be a better killing option for punishing get ups. Or even reads for that matter. In the same scenario, with instead this time, if he used f-tilt to punish a get up, then with another read, couldn't he kill with electroshock after, as a follow up? I feel like because of this they have similar kill power, as has the f-tilt, while has a read that can kill high tiers with relative ease.

 

[Tito Maas]

But if you got just a plain read (like with f-tilt, as you mentioned) would the end lag not matter, as you'd hit and kill them? I can definitely see what you're getting at with the active frames, though. Two total active frames for a smash attack? Now I sorta get why f-tilt would be a better killing option for punishing get ups. Or even reads for that matter. In the same scenario, with instead this time, if he used f-tilt to punish a get up, then with another read, couldn't he kill with electroshock after, as a follow up? I feel like because of this they have similar kill power, as has the f-tilt, while has a read that can kill high tiers with relative ease.

I don't use my smash attacks all that often but I do kill with Ftilt more often than FSmash on the ledge, no doubt. It's easier to space with less endlag and feels a lot safer than FSmash as a kill move. It's a good move to use when you're having a hard time killing with Pit's other moves

 

[Reverbo]

I really think it comes down to playstyle.

Are you a more conservative player who likes to wait for his/her opportunities and safely poke with arrows off stage? (Earth) play Pit.

Are you a more medium risk/high reward type of player who enjoys committal reads and likes killing people at 60% on the ledge? (Nairo) play Dark Pit.

 

[Sensane]

Isn't f-smash safe on shield though? If it isn't I'm not really that knowledgeable on shield damage/what moves are safe on shield. Yes, I know the shield stun formula and I know about shield locks, but by that alone f-smash and tippered f-tilt should be safe on shield, right?

Also, Nairo was never a pit/dark pit main to me. He barely uses him at all and even so I've seen him play robin and zelda more than I've seen him play pit.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Truthfully, it can be a match-up dependent dilemma, as there are match-ups where Upperdash Arm is better than Electroshock Arm, and vice versa. For an example, Dark Pit can handle Rosalina better, as he can contain the Luma more easily with Electroshock Arm's horizontal knockback.

 

[Sensane]

Truthfully, it can be a match-up dependent dilemma, as there are match-ups where Upperdash Arm is better than Electroshock Arm, and vice versa. For an example, Dark Pit can handle Rosalina better, as he can contain the Luma more easily with Electroshock Arm's horizontal knockback.

Thank you for saying the truth!

 

[LancerStaff]

But if you got just a plain read (like with f-tilt, as you mentioned) would the end lag not matter, as you'd hit and kill them? I can definitely see what you're getting at with the active frames, though. Two total active frames for a smash attack? Now I sorta get why f-tilt would be a better killing option for punishing get ups. Or even reads for that matter. In the same scenario, with instead this time, if he used f-tilt to punish a get up, then with another read, couldn't he kill with electroshock after, as a follow up? I feel like because of this they have similar kill power, as has the f-tilt, while has a read that can kill high tiers with relative ease.

It's more that the endlag, combined with the low active frames, makes it risky to even attempt a read with when dealing with I-frames.

With a grounded getup and enough space, yes. With a ledge getup you're not getting much of anything off of it.

Isn't f-smash safe on shield though? If it isn't I'm not really that knowledgeable on shield damage/what moves are safe on shield. Yes, I know the shield stun formula and I know about shield locks, but by that alone f-smash and tippered f-tilt should be safe on shield, right?

Ftilt and Fsmash aren't really safe at all... Way too much endlag. Back hit of Dsmash is safe though. Really should be used as a punish more.

 

[InfinitySoul]

Made a blog post about that :
http://metauprising.blogspot.fr/2016/06/pit-or-dark-pit.html

tl;dr : Pit has Ftilt and arrows for better neutral and edge guard
DPit has sideB for more rewarding reads and conditionning.

Up to playstyle, match ups and opponents.


LancerStaff Can you say more about DPit's Ftilt to sideB ? Do you use sourspot ? Do you have any vids ?

 

[Ludwigvongamer (Mobtink)]

Made a blog post about that :
http://metauprising.blogspot.fr/2016/06/pit-or-dark-pit.html

tl;dr : Pit has Ftilt and arrows for better neutral and edge guard
DPit has sideB for more rewarding reads and conditionning.

Up to playstyle, match ups and opponents.

Preach!

 

[LancerStaff]

LancerStaff Can you say more about DPit's Ftilt to sideB ? Do you use sourspot ? Do you have any vids ?

Sourspot is better though the tip also works. Thing is the tip doesn't really work at percents where Electroshock kills, and that's the whole point of the thing.

@ReRaze probably has a video.