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Which advanced techniques are essential to Villager's metagame?

jcx

Smash Journeyman
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As a budding Villager main, I am interested to know advanced techniques that may be essential or helpful to Villager's gameplay. I use double-stick buffering for fair and bair at the moment, but is there any other tech that Villager greatly benefits from?
 

AnchorTea

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Loid Camp - If you spam the loid ride input near a ledge wall, you can stay nearly still in the air.

Loid Braking - Still not fully understood how to consistently execute it, but if you are hit by an electrical attack. You can COMPLETELY cancel the knockback.

Jab 1 > Axe - Not really a AT, but its fun and useful.

Wood Chip - Wood Chip is beyone what an AT is. It is a true GOD. THE ABSOLUTE MAYOR OF ALL VILLAGERS WITH NO DOUBT. IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TOOL VILLAGER HAS AND YOU SHALL PRAY AND OBEY IT EVERY DAY TO UNLOCK THE TRUE VILLAGER INSIDE YOU.
 

jcx

Smash Journeyman
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Loid Camp - If you spam the loid ride input near a ledge wall, you can stay nearly still in the air.

Loid Braking - Still not fully understood how to consistently execute it, but if you are hit by an electrical attack. You can COMPLETELY cancel the knockback.

Jab 1 > Axe - Not really a AT, but its fun and useful.

Wood Chip - Wood Chip is beyone what an AT is. It is a true GOD. THE ABSOLUTE MAYOR OF ALL VILLAGERS WITH NO DOUBT. IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TOOL VILLAGER HAS AND YOU SHALL PRAY AND OBEY IT EVERY DAY TO UNLOCK THE TRUE VILLAGER INSIDE YOU.
1) I usually use my gyroid to stall myself in the air when recovering or staying true to my turtle style. (I started doing this after taking notes from Ranai and Ryuk; I'd assume most pros would do this)

2) I've heard about Lloid breaking, but I never understood the tech itself. I need to do more research there.

3) I see the axe as just a faster but slightly weaker bowling ball lol :p

4) I don't know how to do that 0-death with the woodchip. I've seen the footage, but it was recorded with a video camera and it goes too fast to see what's going on. I do, however, understand that the woodchip's KB is low enough to jab lock, and the combo itself is a mix of throwing the woodchip, z-dropping the woodchip, and nair. I've never seen it being used outside of that one video though >.<
 

Tommy - S.N.

http://i.imgur.com/QAKFpPF.gif <--- DAZ ME :]]]
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Wood Chip - Wood Chip is beyone what an AT is. It is a true GOD. THE ABSOLUTE MAYOR OF ALL VILLAGERS WITH NO DOUBT. IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TOOL VILLAGER HAS AND YOU SHALL PRAY AND OBEY IT EVERY DAY TO UNLOCK THE TRUE VILLAGER INSIDE YOU.
FFS AnchorTea lmao

is jab axe a true combo? if not how easy is it to escape
Yes, although it's pretty situational. I'd say jab 2 to up air is more reliable at kill percent depending on DI.
 

Moosseff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
124
I wpuld say just have solid game fundamentals. When I say that I mean mechanic wise, so turnaround stuff, OOS options, Perfect pivoting plus dashdancing (I would practice those in training mode for about 15 minutes a day) RAR aerials, etc etc. Then practice doing SH aerial to landing jab/turnaround jab (RAR bair). Villager doesnt really have TOO advanced techs but Loid stalling and half watering are probably the most usefull.
 

jcx

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I wpuld say just have solid game fundamentals. When I say that I mean mechanic wise, so turnaround stuff, OOS options, Perfect pivoting plus dashdancing (I would practice those in training mode for about 15 minutes a day) RAR aerials, etc etc. Then practice doing SH aerial to landing jab/turnaround jab (RAR bair). Villager doesnt really have TOO advanced techs but Loid stalling and half watering are probably the most usefull.
Perfect pivoting feels virtually impossible for me, no matter how hard I try (>.<)
 

BlazikenGod

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Perfect pivoting feels virtually impossible for me, no matter how hard I try (>.<)
Keep at it, it's really hard to learn (harder than wavedashing in melee imo) but you'll get it down in time before your thumb falls off.
dashdancing (I would practice those in training mode for about 15 minutes a day)
Your hands must feel nice after a training session
 

jcx

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Keep at it, it's really hard to learn (harder than wavedashing in melee imo) but you'll get it down in time before your thumb falls off.
Wavedashing is easy. Perfect pivoting, though, just feels impossible. It's so hard to get the timing down. I play not just Villager, but Cloud as well, and it's a shame that I can't perfect pivoting because good spacing is expected from projectile characters and swordsmen.
 

BlazikenGod

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Like i said, Keep at it, it's i believe a 1 frame input so keep practicing. for ways to get it down right, i recommend practicing it for 5 mins a day. should help.
 

paraparra

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Jun 12, 2015
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I've been trying to incorporating more b-reversals and wavebounces in my gameplay. The invicibility frames on his neutral special has gotten me out of a lot of hilarious situations xD
 

Moosseff

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Oct 2, 2015
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124
Keep at it, it's really hard to learn (harder than wavedashing in melee imo) but you'll get it down in time before your thumb falls off.

Your hands must feel nice after a training session
It really isnt that hard lol.

Oh and perfect pivoting isnt that hard either. Again you can practice it for 15 minutes a day and be good in like a week. It's literally learning the timing, then learning how you can apply that in game
 
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jcx

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It really isnt that hard lol.

Oh and perfect pivoting isnt that hard either. Again you can practice it for 15 minutes a day and be good in like a week. It's literally learning the timing, then learning how you can apply that in game
Where can I find FRAME DATA for perfect pivots? Isn't it supposed to be frame perfect? I constantly try to perfect pivot on Training mode, but I get it down once every 20 times or more. I almost always doing on-spot initial dashes (which is the biggest sign you know you f***ed up).
 
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BlazikenGod

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The frame data might be on kuroganehammer.com if you look hard enough.
 

Fairfax

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Mar 25, 2016
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is jab axe a true combo? if not how easy is it to escape
So I ran the numbers here using the Kurogane calculator.

Jab 1 is frame 3 - FAF 22 - Base Knockback 10 and Knockback Growth 80.
Axe is frame 6.
I'm going to use Corrin's weight of 98 as reference because it's a difficult MU and this might be useful.

With both characters at 0%, there are 10 frames of hitstun. Definitely not enough.
With both at 50%, Corrin gets 17 frames of hitstun.
The wiki says the axe kills at ~125%. It depends on the opponent of course, but at that percentage, Corrin gets 23 frames of hitstun. Axe hits in frame 28, and Corrin's fastest move is frame 5. Both moves would hit at the same time, but I expect the Axe to have a priority over her jab/dtilt.

In short: it's tricky, but Jab 1 alone could combo into axe at high enough percents if the opponent has poor frame data.

However, this becomes a lot easier with Jab 2.

Jab 2 has 20 BKB and 120KBG and is also a frame 3 move. This means Villager hits the second jab during frame 25. The only downside is that its FAF is 24, but this is compensated by its considerably bigger knockback.

At 125%, Corrin gets 23 frames of hitstun. Then with 128% jab 2 does 37 frames of hitstun.*
I actually tested this against all heavyweight characters, and only characters that can hit you with a jab before or at the same time you hit jab 2 are:
Ryu (not to mention Focus), R.O.B, Samus, Yoshi, Captain Falcon.

It is worth mentioning that heavier characters would probably need to be at more than 125% to die to the axe anyway. At 130% a (frame perfect/buffered) Jab 1>Jab 2>Axe combo is guaranteed to work against any character in the game. The heaviest character with a frame 3 jab is Samus, and she could only hit you in frame 26, 1 frame too late.

I'm assuming frame perfect reactions from your opponent. It's very likely that you'd be able to hit them with the second jab without much difficulty, specially if they're not pros.

Note: in the scenarios above most opponent would still have at least a 2-3 frame window to powershield your second jab.
A character like Corrin would have to be at 141% to get 25 frames of hitstun and make jab 2 a guaranteed hit.

I'm not completely sure this would work against every character because very light ones might be knocked far enough by the second jab that the axe hitbox won't reach them, so this needs some testing.

When the target is below 100% there seems to be plenty of time to escape it, so this should be used strictly as a kill setup.

*The interesting thing about this setup is that it also works for Villager's back throw setup. 37 frames of hitstun are enough for Villager to grab most characters right after Jab 2 (frame 39).
 
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Fairfax

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Nevermind what I said. I did some actual testing and the second jab knocks most characters way too far for this combo to work with it.
Jab 1 > Axe can still work at ~130% though.
 

jcx

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How about Instant Dash Attack? I could see Villager getting a lot out of that; the pot can cover the ledge if I spam Instant Dash Attacks from the top platform on Battlefield, Miiverse, and Dream Land. Although I still need to get the timing perfect every time :p
 

ThatStrangeDoll

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Oct 27, 2015
Messages
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its an ok mixup but its usually better to just go down there. one thing you should practice is getting the 2 frame punnish with the bowling ball, specially agaisnt characters with teleporting recoveries.
 

jcx

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its an ok mixup but its usually better to just go down there. one thing you should practice is getting the 2 frame punnish with the bowling ball, specially agaisnt characters with teleporting recoveries.
Sounds good. Right now, I try to do the tree mindgame by planting at the edge, and then reacting to their getup option. But bowling balls kill at stupidly early percents so I might as well try that out :p
 

JohnnyB

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its an ok mixup but its usually better to just go down there. one thing you should practice is getting the 2 frame punnish with the bowling ball, specially agaisnt characters with teleporting recoveries.
Keep in mind that teleporters can bypass the 2 frame if they snap to the ledge from above. If they are playing correctly it's actually almost impossible to gimp them.
 

jcx

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Keep in mind that teleporters can bypass the 2 frame if they snap to the ledge from above. If they are playing correctly it's actually almost impossible to gimp them.
Thanks. I DID watch Beefy Smash Doods' video on the 2-frame punish, but I seriously need to take real notes on it :p
 

JohnnyB

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Thanks. I DID watch Beefy Smash Doods' video on the 2-frame punish, but I seriously need to take real notes on it :p
There really isn't much to say about it. Unless they are forced to recover lower than usual, chars with teleport recoveries will grab the ledge from above for free without the two frames if vulnarability.

This actually works for any character that grabs the ledge from an upper angle, so it works for us too. If your opponent is spamming an attack that hits the ledge, you can float away from the stage and snap the ledge from above to keep from getting hit. Works great against Lucas dsmash, Villigers Fsmash, etc.
 
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