Where would you guess Ridley would be Tier wise?

spinalwolf

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#1
Now that we got a good look on how he plays, I'm curious as to how good could he be in actual tournaments. On one hand he has a lot of really great tools at his disposal on the other though his big size will definitely be a big issue for both landing and he'll get combed quite a bit.
 
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DeadlyLampshade

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#4
No clue, no one does.

But if there's one thing I know, in just about every smash game, Heavys tend to go to C/D tiers. So I don't think Ridley is gonna be any different. However, he has that Tail Stab which is a great move if sweet spotted. If a player was able to read well with that attack, you could punish the target very heavily since it crumples.
 

vVv Rapture

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#5
From what I've heard a lot of players seem to think he's at least good. His aerials are quick and strong, although some lack some range. His Nair has a lot of coverage and is very quick. He has fluid movement with seemingly high ground and air speed. In combination with his weight and kill power, I think he should end up being pretty good. He's a fast, tanky damage-dealer. Of course his size will be a problem, but right now I don't see too many weaknesses other than that, not having the best projectile (although it definitely looks like it has good utility in dealing with off-stage and landing opponents) and having considerable start up on moves like down-B.
 

CrowGoesCaw

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#9
How heavy is Ridley? I've heard at least one player describe him as "floaty."
Floatyness is different to heaviness. Samus in Smash4 was both heavy and floaty. Conversely Fox was medium-lightish, but was the opposite of floaty and would fall quickly.

As to your question, I don't actually know. He's not light, but it's hard to work out how heavy he is. I think he's a heavy medium weight, but I could be quite wrong. :/
 
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Gallerian

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#11
It's way to early to be talking about viability and tier lists. After all, this game is still very much in beta. So major things from this build can change at the drop of a hat. I guarantee that most, if not all, of the cast will have different things about them in the final build of the game.
 

Baddies are back

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#12
As others have said it's way too early to tell. From what I've seen many people are having trouble winning with him but that could easily just be because he is a new character that no one knows how to play.
 
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#13
The one thing I'll say is that on paper his side-B is really strong, having a move that gives you an edgeguard situation from almost anywhere on the base platform is pretty crazy. Hopefully you can combo into it, if so then that alone would be an amazing tool for him.
 
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IronWarrior94

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#16
Seems like everyone is having issues playing Ridley. Like, I'm no comp player or enthusiast by any means or stretch, but I've noticed how virtually everyone plays it more...I dunno, defensively with him? Like they're trying to be to safe. Again, no comp player/enthusiast, but when I see this I'm saying in my mind "stop being so feather-footed, you're playing as a vicious bloodthirsty space dragon for Christ's sake"
 
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#17
Seems like everyone is having issues playing Ridley. Like, I'm no comp player or enthusiast by any means or stretch, but I've noticed how virtually everyone plays it more...I dunno, defensively with him? Like they're trying to be to safe. Again, no comp player/enthusiast, but when I see this I'm saying in my mind "stop being so feather-footed, you're playing as a vicious bloodthirsty space dragon for Christ's sake"
Plot twist, in the final product, Ridley's playstyle is built around reads and punishing and being hyper defensive. Real talk though, they probably just don't have too much time to think about what they're going to do when playing a character so foreign to them.
 

spinalwolf

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#18
He apparently is a fast faller.

He can potentially Ridleycide with Side-B.

I have seen many people call him the heaviest character on the roster but they may be referring to the demo roster and I doubt Ridley would be the heaviest character.
You think so? You really think Bowser, Dedede, DK, etc will be heavier? Naaah I doubt it
 

sneakycrown

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#19
I'm thinking A tier. Not quite good enough for S tier thanks to his defense (as I'm assuming he'll be a glass canon) but he'll definitely be seen in (and winning) quite a lot of tournaments.

But that's just my thoughts, what do you guys think?
 

Erimir

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#20
He hasn't looked great in the footage we've seen so far... Not including footage from players who clearly didn't know what they were doing and all the SDs from using up-B straight up when it clearly should've been angled...

BUT

-He seems a bit odd, he looks a lot less pick-up-and-play than the Inklings
-A large number of players seemed to under-utilize the fireballs... They carry risk (and oof, looks like Sheik can just toss a needle to deal 24% if you're on the same level...) but should still be worth it
-Also probably were under-utilizing up-B, which can KO but most players didn't use for anything but recovery
-Down-B is very potent but clearly would require practice to master the spacing
-Almost everybody playing is not using the control options they're comfortable with. In theory that affects everyone equally, but it could be worse for some characters than others (could depend on whether they rely on grabs, for example)

Odd properties mean it takes a while to figure out the true potential. Still, seems easily combo'ed and doesn't appear to be super heavy either. We'll see with the release build though! Any number of attributes could change between then and now (speed, weight, damage, yada yada)
 
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#21
I'm going to make a prediction here.

Ridley's going to be pretty weird and hard to pick up, but will preform admirably if mastered. That said, I think he'll be mid-tier, upper end of that being the absolute best we see. I think he has a little too much going for him to be absolute trash. That said this is early and Sakurai pretty much straight up said he's going to nerf the already garbage mega-gimmick Down Special so yay.
 
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#22
I'm going to make a prediction here.

Ridley's going to be pretty weird and hard to pick up, but will preform admirably if mastered. That said, I think he'll be mid-tier, upper end of that being the absolute best we see. I think he has a little too much going for him to be absolute trash. That said this is early and Sakurai pretty much straight up said he's going to nerf the already garbage mega-gimmick Down Special so yay.
I could definitely see that. The only reason I say A tier is because of the mad damage he does for things like his down special and his side special s I think those would HAVE to be too good to leave out of a low A-tier, upper B-tier rank. However if Sakurai's already nerfing moves (probably for the best so people don't complain LOL) then yeah, he could be put anywhere. I suppose it just depends on the final build.
 

Kopy

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#23
I don't see him being anywhere above mid Tier.

The footage we've seen so far doesn't look promising. It doesn't matter how much damage his dB deals if you can't hit it.

It is too early to call any Tiers besides Bayonetta being top again (as of demo Version).

I'd say it is unlikely Ridley being very good though. Regarding his weight, size and bad recovery I would put him upper mid at the absolute highest.
 
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#24
I don't see him being anywhere above mid Tier.

The footage we've seen so far doesn't look promising. It doesn't matter how much damage his dB deals if you can't hit it.

It is too early to call any Tiers besides Bayonetta being top again (as of demo Version).

I'd say it is unlikely Ridley being very good though. Regarding his weight, size and bad recovery I would put him upper mid at the absolute highest.
Yeah, once again, I could see that. Heavyweights always are at a bit of a disadvantage to the rest. Also, quick note on Bayo, from what I've seen Sakurai was shaking his head whenever she comboed Ridley off screen, so I'd say that's not the final build. Yay!
 
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#25
A lot depends on how the game's overall meta develops. Is it going to be aggressive or passive? Will it favor camping, spacing or rushdown characters? Is edgeguarding a thing again? Are shield still crazy powerful? How will big characters fare in comparison to past titles with some of the general changes, like normalized jumpsquats?

There are too many questions still to say anything definitively, but with what we know so far I feel like he's probably going to be mid-tier, maybe on the lower end. Like, he definitely has some positives, like his speed being significantly better than most heavy weights both on the ground and in the air, the former which could be particularly important with the new dash mechanics. N-Air, U-Air and D-Tilt are all fantastic moves both in neutral and to either start or follow up combos, with F-Air also having a lot of potential out of throws and comboing into itself, and he's got a variety of decent options when it comes to KOing aswell. Side-B also has a lot of potential, but it's difficult to say how useful it'll be in the long run as a whiff can be punished hard, and it's a little bit slow.

His weaknesses are huge though, of course his size making him combo food is the obvious one, but his recovery also looks simply horrid. He might have an extra jump, but it doesn't make up for how easy both of his recovery options are to read, if he could at least go diagonally with his Up-B he'd be a ton better, but as is he's just completely lost when having to recover at certain angles. The weakpoint when charging his Neutral-B will also hinder it from being a viable projectile in a lot of matchups, it seems like anything that deals knockback triggers it, so characters like Sheik and Falco can just straight up shut it down with needles and lasers, and with a significant damage penalty to Ridley aswell.

I'm optimistic he won't be bottom tier as he's definitely got some great tools, but I don't expect we'll see him compete at tournaments, but like I said it's so incredibly early, we can't know anything for sure, he might just end up being amazing or even complete garbage, who knows. Worst case scenario there will always be balance patches to fix him up a bit.
 
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vVv Rapture

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#27
There's really no way to know right now, we've barely played with most of the cast and everything is subject to change. Like even as it stands right now, I wouldn't really know where to place him.

As far as I'm concerned, he'll be viable. To what extent that viability is though remains to be seen. I think the universal changes to the game will help big/heavies in the long run, so that's good for him too. And his ability to trade positively over long periods of time because his damage output is so absurd will probably help in a meta of small, fast characters that have a higher individual hit rate than him.

If I had to place him anywhere right now though, based on speculation/playtime/bias, I'd put him at low-high tier or high-mid tier. But that doesn't really mean anything right now.
 
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#29
It depends, give him an OP hoo haw like DK in ssb4 and he'll be mid tier. Otherwise he looks like a punching bag.
If you're talking about the bayo fight I'd argue that was just a mix of both abroken character and Plup not really knowing how to quite use Ridley (not saying plup is bad, btw, I was actually rooting for him to face ZeRo in the finals)
 
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Gallerian

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#31
I can see him being a mid-tier character at the highest. Maybe somewhere around C-tier. From early builds, I've seen people play Ridley, but don't really know what to be doing. Though that mainly stems from him being very new, as opposed to characters with established movesets.

Some people think he'd be low or even bottom tier, but I think it's mainly because he hasn't been played right.
 

Diem

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#33
Sure, Falcon and Ganondorf are S tier because of their Falcon / Warlock Punch
Pretty sure he's just trolling, poorly.

Anyways, I discovered this video last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol5JDexi1z0

It goes in depth with a lot of his moves. This isn't to be taken as gospel, as any number of changes could happen before release, but it gives a good idea of where the character stands on an objective level, separated from the poor gameplay we've seen.

Seems like Ridley's faster than most other heavyweights, which definitely gives him an edge. Characters like Dedede and Ganondorf are so pitiful competitively because of how slow their moves are. Ridley having so many quick, large, and damaging moves will make him pretty dangerous. As such, he'll probably be above most other heavyweights in the tier list, as almost all of his moves are pretty good and useful compared to some other heavies.

One big factor is his down special, the tail stab. Right now, no one knows how to use it. Sakurai acknowledged in a recent official interview with Nintendo that it's not a very good 1v1 move, but in matches with more players, it's easier to catch people. But once people get in training mode and start testing stuff out, there might be some setups or combos that can reliably distance Ridley from the opponent and make the move connect. Can't imagine it'll be easy, but if it can be done, then that might make a big difference.

If I had to predict, I'd say he'd C tier or above, but there's always a chance he'll be below. It's hard to say, because all of the characters are undergoing some fundamental changes compared to Smash 4, so we can't really use that as a barometer. I wouldn't be surprised if the tier list of Ultimate is totally different from Smash 4.
 

Mr Gentleman

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#35
Thing is a big part of where characters fit on the tier list is how good their matchups are against the rest of the cast. more importantly the top tiers.
and at this point there are 30+ characters we haven't even got the chance to play.

there are so many unknowns that it is impossible to come up with anything close to an accurate placement of anybodies tiers.
 

Scicky

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#36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NafRuJPKYA

The first stock of this match is a pretty good example of what Ridley should be able to pull off in the right hands I think, that dB to down smash follow up is unreal and would still be really potent with a sizeable damage nerf as long as you can get the read. With that being said, I don't think either player in this game is really playing to either characters full potential, and I've been fairly underwhelmed by a lot of Ridley gameplay, but he has potential for sure. Yeah, he's easily combo'd, but his spacing ability looks really strong so hopefully that'll keep him from being locked into combo's too easily.

Also, if you can successfully hit your opponent with Side B you're almost guaranteed to have forced them into a situation where you can edgeguard them, that's huge.

If you're talking about the bayo fight I'd argue that was just a mix of both abroken character and Plup not really knowing how to quite use Ridley (not saying plup is bad, btw, I was actually rooting for him to face ZeRo in the finals)
That match was twisted even if Leo hadn't been playing Bayo, FS immediately followed up by whatever item it was that insta-killed Plup was a load of garbage. The Bayo shenanigans in the last two stocks were just nails in the coffin. At least Ridley surviving that off-stage chase that MKLeo loses a stock for was impressive but aside from that, it might be the worst possible showcase for a new character imaginable.
 
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Rizen

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#37
there are so many unknowns that it is impossible to come up with anything close to an accurate placement of anybodies tiers.
That's not true. I'll give you 3 high-at-worst tiers right now: Pikachu, Fox and Marth. Why? Pika and Fox are mobile characters with great frame data and kill power to back it up. Marth was designed to hit with the tip of his sword and given wide arcing fast attacks with good mobility to back it up. They're fundamentally well built characters that would be hard to mess up. I can't guarantee they'll be good but I can form highly plausible hypotheses based around past trends and current data.
 

Skyline1992

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#38
Well people have always said that if Ridley were to ever be playable, he'd be the most broken character in the game or he'll get nerfed so badly that he'll end being the worst character in the game. Personally, I think he'll end up mid-tier.
 

Scicky

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#39
That's not true. I'll give you 3 high-at-worst tiers right now: Pikachu, Fox and Marth. Why? Pika and Fox are mobile characters with great frame data and kill power to back it up. Marth was designed to hit with the tip of his sword and given wide arcing fast attacks with good mobility to back it up. They're fundamentally well built characters that would be hard to mess up. I can't guarantee they'll be good but I can form highly plausible hypotheses based around past trends and current data.
Ehhh, from what I've heard about Fox he doesn't seem to be as great in this game. I haven't seen anyone call him bad, but I get the impression that he'll probably be upper mid-tier and not high-tier outright, I'm not a fox player and haven't seen too much gameplay so don't quote me, but knowing about the illusion nerf, shine-stall nerf and a couple other things, as well as the amount of other characters who've been buffed and the overall roster size, I could see Fox falling to B. Pikachu looks amazing though, nair is ridiculous, combo game is ridiculous and I saw a barely off-stage Thunder kill Mario at 30%. No doubt in my mind Pikachu is high-tier if not one of the absolute best characters in the game right now. Marth doesn't seem to have changed much but a couple buffs mean he'll probably be high-tier.

The problem is that we don't know what the other characters look like or where they place, you can safely claim that Marth, Fox and Pika are going to be good characters, and I agree. But you just can't guarantee that they'll be top-20 when we haven't seen half the roster in action.
 

Rizen

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#40
The problem is that we don't know what the other characters look like or where they place, you can safely claim that Marth, Fox and Pika are going to be good characters, and I agree. But you just can't guarantee that they'll be top-20 when we haven't seen half the roster in action.
I think tiers will probably be bigger by virtue of the roster being bigger. So IMO high-top tier could easily include 20+ characters. IDK what the total character number is.
 
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