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When you have god like spacing skills but still can't play Marth (anti-highlight reel)

Theguysayhi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
6
https://youtu.be/mQEchwRfXBM

It's a crime how much better Lucina is than Marth this game.
I believe only one tipper was landed in this whole video, which was Dair (usually pretty consistent actually, nothing wrong with that move)

It just hurts so much that even when spacing, you can't net kills when you want too. Marth just can't do anything right at the moment with how his tippers work.

The video code to view on your switch is the movie title. Please show your support and yeahing it so Nintendo can see...
 
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Theguysayhi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
6
Haha gotta get the word out there xD
Also I spent all day on this vid and it would be a shame for it to go to waste
 

Mmmmello

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
5
Nah my guy your spacing succs hella bad. Rule of thumb of all fighters is if your character is bad/ difficult to utilize its your fault for playing them. Complaining about the character shifts the blame off yourself so you stagnate and never improve with the character. Math's got kill confirms, like his first hit nair sweet or sour will combo into fsmash 60 to like 140%. I'm sorry my dude but.... your just bad.
 

Jaro235

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Messages
179
Switch FC
SW-3773-6120-6819
I thought Marth was decent in this game. Is he really that bad?
 

Theguysayhi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
6
I thought Marth was decent in this game. Is he really that bad?
He’s not “bad” per say but he is very inconsistent. In the video you see that even with proper spacing the tipper window is still very tight. The main point I wanted to show is even if something looks like a tipper, it’s still might not be, and you get the sour hitbox

Nah my guy your spacing succs hella bad. Rule of thumb of all fighters is if your character is bad/ difficult to utilize its your fault for playing them. Complaining about the character shifts the blame off yourself so you stagnate and never improve with the character. Math's got kill confirms, like his first hit nair sweet or sour will combo into fsmash 60 to like 140%. I'm sorry my dude but.... your just bad.
...Watch the whole video. I agree that “godlike” is a bit of a stretch but judging by what you said you misunderstood that I was referring to tipper consistency and not that Marth is bad.

It’s not just one replay, it’s a whole bunch of videos with handpicked scenarios where I felt I should have got a tipper (except for when I whiff some moves; I was showing the struggle of being too far/close). This is not “my best marth gameplay”, that”s not the point. If you watched the whole video you would have known that.
 
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Mmmmello

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
5
He’s not “bad” per say but he is very inconsistent. In the video you see that even with proper spacing the tipper window is still very tight. The main point I wanted to show is even if something looks like a tipper, it’s still might not be, and you get the sour hitbox



...Watch the whole video. I agree that “godlike” is a bit of a stretch but judging by what you said you misunderstood that I was referring to tipper consistency and not that Marth is bad.

It’s not just one replay, it’s a whole bunch of videos with handpicked scenarios where I felt I should have got a tipper (except for when I whiff some moves; I was showing the struggle of being too far/close). This is not “my best marth gameplay”, that”s not the point. If you watched the whole video you would have known that.
Okay I watched the whole video and yeah your spacing isn't the best. Tipper fsmash doesn't like to land on grounded opponents and if you don't hit them on the very edge it just doesn't come through. Spacing it slightly too short is frustrating but that's how it is. If you space it too far it wont tip because they got on the inside of the hitbox. Fsmash seems like bs but you gotta get used to it. It's not a move you can force, either combo into it or know the spacing well enough that you know it will hit. Also try to use it as an anti air instead it's a lot longer above, on top of being faster to hit someone above you.
 

Phatty

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
59
Theguysayhi- I don't think your spacing was bad necessarily it just didn't account for things like hurtbox shifting. Like, in two of those clips you tried punishing Yoshi's Fsmash but since Yoshi throws his head forward, part of it connected with the sour-spot hitbox. That happens quite a lot, actually. You think your spacing is perfect but your opponent's limbs are flailing in a weird direction and it messes up your tipper hit. Sometimes, that's impossible to avoid. The way Marth's hitboxes work is that the sour hitboxes outrank the tipper ones. So if say the tipper hitbox connects with the body, but a sour hitbox connects with a leg sticking out, you'll get a weak hit. That also happened in Smash4 but in that game, since people couldn't move as freely and since some flinching and tumbling animations were different, it wasn't as much as an issue. Also, having a guaranteed tipper out of jab means you didn't have to depend on stray tipper hits as much whereas in this game it really stands out.

One thing I also noticed is that you like to punish whiffed moves by dropping shield and either Ftilting or Fsmashing (or at least you did in the clips you showed). In general, I avoid that as much as I can since dropping shield adds 10 frames to whatever move you do (plus a few from hitstun). I've gotten into the habit of either doing an aerial OOS or Uspecial. This is especially true online since the lag and latency are so horrendous that more often than not I end up whiffing my Fsmash and I end up getting Fsmashed myself since Marcina's smashes are EXTREMELY laggy. Even if I do use a smash I'll either use Usmash or Dsmash. Usmash cancels shield and it's just 13 frames. Dsmash doesn't cancel shields but it's only frame 6. Now, some might say "well Fsmash is only frame 10 so it's not that much slower". But the thing is, Fsmash IS frame 10 but it starts ABOVE Marcina. It hits an opponent in front of you on frame 12 or 13 (depending on opponent height and spacing).

So Uspecial is your fastest OOS option at frame 5, Uair is next at frame 8, Nair and Fair are frame 9, shield grab is frame 10, Usmash is frame 13, jab is frame 15, Dmash is frame 16, Dtilt is frame 17, Ftilt is frame 18, Dancing Blade is frame 19, and Fsmash on an opponent in front of you is a whopping 22 or 23 frames.
 
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