What's your opinion of the Melee 14 OUTSIDE of Smash? (Part 2)

Zinith · Jun 25, 2018

A continuation of this:
https://smashboards.com/threads/whats-your-opinion-of-the-og-12-outside-of-smash.455902/
That's still up if you want to post your thoughts, but now we're moving on to Melee...

This is where you post what you think of the characters who were introduced in Melee OUTSIDE of Smash. In other words,

. (There's an awful lot of Zelda to go through, so if you're an uberfan, this thread is a dream.) Due to the way Smash Ultimate orders it's fighters,

and

are listed in with this group, but for obvious reasons I'm leaving them out.

Same story as before, this is NOT what you think of them in Smash, but how you feel about them elsewhere. There'll be more "Captain Falcons" the further we go (i.e. a character popular almost solely due to Smash) and there's nothing I can do about that. Also, like before I recommend that you use spoiler tags so this thread is not flooded with walls-of-text. I appreciate it.

Anyways, here's my thoughts. Since none of them are Yoshi, forgive me if I seem not very invested:

Not really much to go with unless you played Paper Mario to be honest. As much as I loathe the ambulance chasers who cry "DAMSEL IN DISTRESS!!!" at every opportunity, with Peach they kind of have a point. In compensation, they sort of developed her personality solely around this quirk. She's girly, she's clean, she loves pink, she likes to cook, you get the point. Now granted, I don't have a hang-up with so-called "stereotypes" like some people. I just don't find that sort of personality appealing to me.

Here's an interesting case study. In some games Bowser is awesome, in others he's bland and boring. Because he is used in Mario games so often without really focusing on him, it comes off as dragging him along for the ride. That being said, when he has a chance to shine, he REALLY shines!!! The RPGs make him out to be a rough but sympathetic old goof (not Dedede levels, but still good). He rivals Luigi for how much character development he got from these games. Considering the RPGs are not what they used to be, I pine for the day Bowser gets his personality back.

So now it begins. One of "those" characters. This might not be fair to the Ice Climbers as they only have one game to their name and it's a primitive arcade-style NES platformer. The only thing I can really gleam from their sprites is the crying animation when they lose a bonus round (which when applied to their losing animations in Smash, makes them come off as unsportsmanlike. Not that you'll ever see them considering tier lists lol.) That's honestly all I have.

Oh boy, if there is a character I consider should've never been in Smash, it's Sheik. She teaches you songs, waxes poetically about basic information, gets her *** beat up by an invisible demon..... and that's it. I don't consider her impressive or bad*** or interesting in any capacity. The moment she transforms into Zelda at the end, I pretty much forget she even existed. If it wasn't for Sakurai wanting to get cute with Zelda's moveset and inventing Ninja bull**** for her, I could see Sheik being as relevant as Marin.

Zelda's great!!! Unlike Link, I can basically lump all Zeldas together as they're pretty much the same (which is not a bad thing). Her regal posture, her stoicism, her importance to the mythos, etc. Some stand-outs are Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild, where you get to spend a considerable amount of time with her and see some of the nuances of her character that a mere one or two scenes won't highlight. She's the title character and she definitely deserved that honor imo.

I'm so confused. I thought Dr. Mario was just Mario? Eh, whatever. Pretty much my feelings I have for Mario apply to Dr. Mario as well.

I distinctly remember Pichu being just as much hot stuff as Pikachu was 18 years ago (yes I'm old). He was used to promote Gen 2's brand new "pre-evolution" mechanic and was everywhere. BOY HAVE THINGS CHANGED!!! If it wasn't for Smash speculation I would've forgotten about the little guy. He was kind of just "there," but to be honest I feel that way about ANY Pokemon.

Like with Fox, I don't really know much about Falco. From what I'm hearing, he comes off as someone who tries to get on your nerves but fails. He also falls into the hothead trope too much for my tastes. And just to let you know, I'm very fond of birds (

is the exception) so I might be a little biased against the dabbing space furry.

Considering how infamously convoluted and over dramatic the Fire Emblem series is, Marth rides to the top of all FE characters merely due to his simplicity. He was deposed from his kingdom and years later proves himself worthy of being a hero by defeating the evil dragon. Simple but effective. Sure he may be similar to Mario in that sense but when you have a series that can go down so many rabbit holes (*cough*Fates*cough*) it's nice to relate to someone who isn't an unlikeable ******* for once.

Back to Link. Like I said before, I look at all 12 Links separately and not as one character. And not all Links are equal. Young Link is based on Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask Link and MM is my favorite game of all time. Unfortunately this Link is probably the most expressionless and dull of all 3D Links. Skyward Sword Link he isn't!!! In Majora's Mask it didn't matter as the player was able to connect with the NPCs regardless of the avatar. But it doesn't bode well for the Hero of Time when he's about as expressive and full of life as the Emoji Movie...

Well, there's always Toon Link...

Despite being the main antagonist of the Zelda series, Ganondorf is not used all that often, and that's a good thing. As a result, when he DOES show up, **** gets real. He chews up a scene extremely well and you feel uncomfortable in his presence. He doesn't have a fleshed out personality, but he doesn't need one. Other villains like Majora and Ghirahim give the Zelda series character when it needs it. Ganondorf is there to raise the stakes. If only other series can learn to hold off using it's main antagonist like Zelda (I'm looking at you Yoshi's New Island!!).

I really don't want to go in full detail with Mewtwo. Let's just say he's the reason I'm not into Pokemon all that much...

This is the Fire Emblem Lord I know the least about. What I can tell is that he's pretty annoying in Binding Blade, but I might be wrong.

Mr. Game & Watch really isn't a "character" outside of Smash, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Part 3 (Brawl 18): https://smashboards.com/threads/whats-your-opinion-of-the-brawl-18-outside-of-smash-part-3.456040/
Part 4 (Sm4sh 21): https://smashboards.com/threads/whats-your-opinion-of-the-sm4sh-21-outside-of-smash-part-4.456127/

Nohbl · Jun 25, 2018

I really need her to dispell the Bowser shipping. TURTLED.com

I feel like he could be a cooler villain than I think he is.

Irrelevant.

I find it hard to believe that Zelda is that agile.

I think it would be cool if they stopped making her a damsel in distress for one game and did a Prince of Persia: Sands of Time style adventure with her and Link, with Ganondorf as the Vizier.

I think they could have come up with a better gimmick.

I wish babymon were treated with more creativity than Gamefreak had. Pokemon Showdown! has Little Cup, while in-game, there's nothing of the sort, so the extra evolution stages add almost nothing to the table. They are just a nuisance.

Seems like a generic tough guy. I almost wish he wasn't in a children's game, so he could be given more depth and such to make him more admirable. That would make him more enjoyable to play.

I know nothing about him.

Neat gimmick.

I ended up reading a lot of the lore surrounding this guy, including a YouTube video about all the timelines; I think he's an excellent character. He's even pretty sympathetic, at least how the videos I watched portrayed him. I like him.

Okay legendary. There's nothing inherently wrong with it. He's also a decent character in the films. I neither hate it nor love it.

Know nothing about him.

Hidan · Jun 25, 2018

: As you said, a damsel in distress. I just finished Mario Odysee a couple days ago and I like how she doesn't fall into the arms of Mario though, so that shows something (at least as of beating the story for the first time)

: He can be very comical, but also has moments of being very threatening. He's very iconic, but I wish there were times where he'd be more serious? But I guess that's the price he pays for being able to be in all of the spin-off games too.

: Don't know them outside of Smash.

: I remember my friend really enjoying Shiek, but I don't have that strong of an opinion, especially since she has such a limited role in the LoZ series (and has probably only survived through the series because Smash made her constantly relevant). So my view is "eh".

: I love Zelda. Honestly, I wish there were a LoZ game where I could play as Zelda, because I find her usually far more interesting than Link. However, I also know that in different incarnations she doesn't fight so that might be hard to shake. Regardless, I'd love it if the formula switched at some point to let us play her.

: Same as Mario...but as a doctor...

: I think he's cute, but unlike most Pokemon, I don't have much of an opinion, so I guess that says something there.

: Like Fox, I haven't played Star Fox, so not much of an opinion. But I guess I think he's slick/reckless. Honestly reminds me of one of my friends, someone who tries to act cool but...is actually sort of lame once you get to know them (in an endearing way).

: Probably one of the simplest Lords for obvious reasons: some may say that makes him generic, but I like him better than some of the more recent protagonists.

: MM is my favorite LoZ game, so Young Link is held in high regard for me, even if he is bland.

: The main villain of the LoZ franchise, and honestly, you can feel the doom and dread whenever something with Ganon is involved. He just has this overwhelming presence that makes you want to see more of him.

: I immediately jump to two events: One, is in my copy of Pokemon Red, where I finally reached Mewtwo in the Cerulean Cave and captured him, and also, Pokemon the Movie, where he was the main antagonist, and ultimately had a change of heart. I've loved him (not as much as Mew though) ever since, and he's easily in my top 5 pokemon. With that said, there's also some mystery about how I feel about him, because I remember there was like a short movie of a clone of Mewtwo or something. idk, maybe I'm getting it mixed up with some sort of Broly sequel, but I just remember not really liking the direction they went with Mewtwo.

: Not too familiar, as expected, because his game was never localized in America.

: I think he's endearing, but what's represented in Smash is what he was beforehand (almost literally translated over), so I can't give much else a comment.

Kevandre · Jun 25, 2018

: I don't have a problem with Peach. I don't use her much in Smash but she's always served as a fine goal for gameplay...

: I guess I like Bowser? Especially Paper Bowser. He's just so strange. Turtle with bull's lips who breathes fire is such an odd villain but somehow it freaking works

: I honestly couldn't care too much for these guys. I was happy to see them back in Smash Ultimate because I just hate cuts in general, but I won't use them much. Also, I feel like Sakurai remade Ice Climber in Melee, but it had more features... lol

: I don't have a real connection to the Zelda series, and definitely not one to Ocarina of Time, but I played a lot of Sheik back in Melee days so I've got a little soft spot for her.

: The first character I played as in Melee. I said above that I played a lot of Sheik, but honestly through that process I got pretty good with Zelda too and ended up playing as her more, swapping to Sheik when necessary. I'm not excited to be losing the

design though, I really really like that version of Zelda lol

: Meh. I was never much into his games.

: Adorable, but I always found added baby pokemon to be just super unnecessary in their games

: Another one of my most played Melee characters for some reason. But I've never really played Star Fox so that's as far as it goes.

: I... don't care for Marth. And it isn't Marth's fault at all, but when I saw my first Melee tier list back in, I dunno, aught six or so, and I saw that Marth was much higher on there than Roy? I laughed myself sick. I thought it was some kind of joke. I'd played a lot of Melee and played a lot of Marth and Roy, and had found that Roy was better just all around. And when I brought this up in a thread (On the myspace smash fan group lol), I was destroyed for not understanding competitive Melee. And something about that experience made me dislike Marth a lot (And also competitive Melee) and cling closer to my boy Roy. But also, outside of Smash? Marth is really boring. Shadow Dragon is really boring.

: I've always been drawn to Majora's Mask for some reason, even if I don't play Zelda games myself. And honestly I'd love Young Link to be altered to be more like a Pokemon Trainer character, swapping between Deku, Zora and Goron forms. I just really like that mechanic. All the same, yeah he's cool I guess.

: Meh. I kind of like how the Smash community views Ganondorf, it helps my liking of him (Especially the version that appears in RelaxAlax videos), but I never really found him to be too intriguing a villain.

: Pretty dope and iconic Pokemon. I recall getting him in Pokemon Blue oh so many years ago and felt like such a badass

: O U R B O Y. I haven't played his game because I'm not too super interested in the older Fire Emblems (Remake it + Blazing Sword into one Awakening style game and I am so 100% in on this though). Though I absolutely bought the Awakening DLC that allowed me to recruit him into my team, and then I realized that he was not a great unit so then he rotted. But still. Loyalty to our boy.

: I played one of those Gameboy G&W collections as a lad and enjoyed it. That's... basically all I got here.

CaptainAmerica · Jun 25, 2018

: Honestly, I think she's an idiot, but in an endearing way. Yes, she's had some games where she was the star, but for most of them she's just there to be kidnapped. Still, I do like her as a character. In the original spin-offs, she was one of my go-tos, but that's cooled off slightly since then. Now, most of what I like about her is Smash related, and that's a lot because she is a fighter who can still rock a gown. Let it not be said that being girly and being badass are mutually exclusive.

Peach is definitely up there for me. Not at the top, but I do like her a lot

: He's grown on me more and more. I don't have much experience with the Mario main-series games, but he seems like that kid-friendly cartoon villain who's mostly bad because the game tells you he is. Yes, he kidnaps the princess (she probably likes it at this point - she's totally into Bowser), but that's some Disney-cartoon level villainy. Again from the spinoffs, I find him cool (which also plays into the idea that 'villainy' is just his day job).

Bowser's cool enough, I guess. Not too high up there, but in the upper half of the cast.

: Smash character, through and through. After learning about their game, I still have little interest.

I guess they're alright, but I mostly missed them for their veteran status.

: I loved Ocarina. Sheik was not much to me at the time, but she's grown on me a bit. Mostly what I liked from her was her alter ego. Otherwise, shiek was just a way for princess badass to go that long under the radar, which I totally respected.

I like Shiek, but between her and her alter ego, there's no contest.

: Another of my absolute favorite video game characters. Zelda's gotten cooler in almost every game I've played, to the point that she's not getting kidnapped without a fight. I love how she's become more and more capable starting with Ocarina in defending herself. My favorite incarnation of her, though, was Twilight Princess. Technically she was never called a princess there (outside of once mockingly by Midna), as she was the full out Queen, and I loved that she also was the first phase of the final boss. Romance subplots in media are also irritating, so it was really cool to see absolutely nothing between her and Link in that game; it was all business.

Zelda's a great example of a strong character who's more tactically intelligent than anything else. I was a bit disappointed in how BotW's Zelda was so inept until she unlocked the romance, and also how girly she was (not to mention her sub par voice acting). Zelda's always struck me as the kind of woman who can do what she needs to in her royal gown, but has moved further and further away from the pink rainbow princessy that Peach has. The two make excellent foils for one another.

I do love Zelda. She's definitely my number 2 after Link.

: Didn't we do him last time? I don't have anything to add, since I never played Mario, MD.

However, I tend to prefer originals over their alter egos, so down to the bottom you go.

: I never really needed more cutesy babyness in my life, so Pichu has always just been there. I get that he was introduced in Gen 2 to show off the breeding mechanic, which was cool enough, but that was at the time that I still hated Pikachu. His companions being the baby pink puffballs also didn't help much. I always took the babies as novelties, and got them long enough to fill my Pokédex.

Still, he's really not much to me. Again, I prefer the originals, so Pichu needs to get in line way behind his older brother.

: Like last time, I've never played a Star Fox game, so Falco's mostly there. I did get to know about him around the time I was 13, when everyone has their 'teenage edgelord' phase (mine was quite subdued, but everyone has one), so I liked him at the time, but not as much as Fox since I preferred the leader. Since then, he's just been this obnoxious hanger-on, until Revali came by and did the brazen personality better - still annoying but endaring too - so Falco's nothing to me anymore.

To be honest, I can't say he's ever been in my top 50%, and he's just gone down slightly from there.

: Marth debuted in Smash Bros. It didn't end up getting me into Fire Emblem either, so most of what I know of Marth is the Awkward Zombie cartoons, which misrepresent his personality. Otherwise, he's completely generic anime bishi, and I don't have time for that.

Eh...I recognize his importance, but he's nothing to me.

: Talk about the comeback kid! I loved Ocarina and Majora's Mask, but of course adult Link was my go to choice. Young Link in MM was still awesome with the whole transformation mask mechanic (yes, I would go around the game as Zora link as much as possible since he was by far the coolest). In Ocarina, he was more of a means to getting to Adult Link, but I did still enjoy my time at the kids' table.

I can't say he was high on my list in Melee, but now he's way higher than that fake one, and also since he's keeping his correct hand, he's shooting up the charts.

: Such a great (and underused) villain! I do like that he's more humanoid - generic monster villains don't really do too much for me, so the fact that all of this evil is coming out of a person is much more interesting. Again, I thought he was at his best in Twilight Princess. I didn't really see him coming, so that was beyond awesome that he was just a puppet in the wings the entire time. He's always been one of the coolest bad guys, and I'd like him to show up properly in a game again.

But the Hyrule Warriors version? Beyond awesome. It was a similar storyline to Twilight Princess in that he was secretly controlling everything behind that scenes, but with the added benefit of him looking amazing (why wasn't that his Smash Ultimate look?) and getting to play as him were unbelievably cool. It didn't hurt that his moves are all feral and amazing at the same time.

I love Ganondorf as a villain. His pig form is nothing special to me - it's another generic enemy beast. But the humanoid form? That's such a great villain in every way. He's way up there with the rest of the Triforce set on the top of my favorites.

: As much as I hate every other person's favorite character being legendary, I did it too. But when I was a kid, this was the legendary I grew up with. And he's so cool. Again, I can't speak much for the anime since I didn't watch that as a kid (I have seen it a few years ago, and I've gotta say that the first movie is the preachiest, most annoying movie I've ever seen. Movie 3 was way better), but in the games he was the final end boss. Also, I loved the Pokémon Stadium games (we need a remake of those too - we had Battle Revolution, but I liked the whole 'rental Pokémon' thing so you could still play it without filling your Pokédex), where again Mewtwo was your final challenge. All of that together made him the epitome of badass in the Pokémon world.

Mewtwo is another one of those characters who sits on top of my favorites list.

: Isn't he a Smash OC?

Realistically, I do place him above Marth though, especially after his upgrade in the last game. He just comes off as so much cooler.

: He's a meme, and doesn't mean much to me.

I guess there are worse options, but he's in the lower echelons of my bracket.

Crap-Zapper · Jun 25, 2018

Princess Peach -
Being a boy in the 90's of course Peach was never cool. It was not until I grew up I appreciated girls, as every boy does, and Peach was no exception. I was more of a Donkey Kong and Luigi guy, but now, I do enjoy using Peach in the old Party Games. I think she was seen as weak, since she got kidnapped all the time, but Melee did show me that she could fight, which was a turning point for my views on her.

Now, I think Peach is a cute character, with a lot of "Sw-eet" attributes.

Bowser -
Always the bandit, I don't really thought too much on Bowser, he was the villain, I did not like him at the time. His message sound and laugh in Mario 64 used to haunt me, and I hated him for that.

Later I've come around to appreciate Bowser, and what importance he holds in the series. I always liked the fact that I could use him in the Spin-Off games.

Ice Climbers -
My attatchement with them are from Melee. I thought thier Break the Target was special/different from all the others. They were a duo type, and I think that was special. Their absent in Smash 4 was heartbreaking ... Glad they are back.

Sheik -
Had no idea who Sheik was, as I only played Majora's Mask, and really did not care OoT. She was a complete shock to me in Melee, but I've come around to the idea, and I think she is fine.

Zelda -
She was just the Peach of Link's game. That's how I viewed her, but for some reason, I liked her better than Peach, because of her moves in Melee. I started using her more, and found her magic to be powerful. At least a female who could defend herself I thought.

The newest Zelda is the cutest Zelda, and perhaps the one I like the best too.

Dr. Mario -
I was thrown off seing Doc for the first time. I never played any of his games, and I thought why it was just a Mario in a doctor outfit. Now, I appreciate him for the gameplay in Smash, but outside of that I don't care too much for Doc.

Pichu -
Pokémon Gold was my first traditional Pokémon game, and I always thought Pichu was cute. His inclusion in Melee was bittersweet, but really glad that it came back for Ultimate. Outside of all that, Pichu has never excited me as a Pokémon, more fan of Pikachu.

Falco Lombardi -
As with Fox, I did not know who Falco were outside of Melee, and that time I tried StarFox 64. I think Falco is much cooler than Fox in the "cool" dude appartment, but outside of that, I don't have much connection to the guy.

Marth -
Who now!? I was so confused about this character, but I remember thinking he was cool, another sword fighter which was not Link's was geat diversity. Never have I played a FE game, so I can't tell too much out of Smash, but he was one of my favourite fighters in Brawl.

Young Link -
Yet another one I was confused with in Melee, same with Doctor Mario. Two Links?! Still, as I played Majora's Mask, I liked Y-Link better. Still, I think it was unecessary at the time. Really glad he is back in Ultimate tho.

Ganondorf -
OMG A DUDE WITH A GIANT SWOR-- ... Well, Melee again was the first exposure to Ganondorf. My villain was Skull Kid, not Ganon. Still, I knew who he was from my friends playing OoT. I thought he looked evil, badass and powerful, which he were, and as a clone of Falcon he became even more BADASS. Not what I think now, but as I loved using Falcon in general back in Melee, a more powerful version was not bad lol.

Mewtwo -
LOVING The hell out of the first movie, I was so happy, and surprised to see Mewtwo in the games. At the time I did not have Mewtwo ingame, as I played Gold first, and later Yellow. Still, his moves and motives from the movie made me really happy to see Mewtwo in game, and this has continued to be the case. I really love Mewtwo.

Roy -
Again ... Who!? I never knew Fire Emblem, like most people in Melee, and first seeing Marth, then Roy made me more confused. I liked Marth more because of his moveset, but I loved Roy's attitude for some reason. More than this, I can not say, as I've never played their games.

Mr. Game & Watch -
Oh Boii ... What on Earth is this!? I was caught off guard, as he was the last character I unlocked, and he was 2D !!! I really liked his bizzare appearence. I did play a Mario game on the GameBoy Advance which had some of the Game & Watch games on it, that was the first time outside of Smash I saw something of his. Love him in the current Smash Games. Think he is cute.

Kotor · Jun 25, 2018

- I remember before playing Odyssey that Peach would turn down Mario's wedding proposal. Playing the game it was more Mario and Bowser butting in to get Peach's attention, but she turned both down.

- I enjoy Bowser in games where he isn't just a "generic villain." Games such as Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario (excluding SS & CS), and Mario & Luigi (never touched Paper Jam) shows a different take on the Koopa King. Even Super Mario Sunshine Bowser just wanted to give his son a nice family vacation. His only real sin he committed in Sunshine was telling Jr. Peach was his mom.

- Just there.

- LttP design is cute. Not a huge fan of the Twilight Princess design. I liked the more vibrant designs of Zelda. Yes, Twilight Princess Zelda works for the setting of the game, but comparing it to the other Zeldas. It's just not good to me.

- Happy to see the Doctor costume is in Odyssey.

- Just there.

- Favorite color is blue. Falco's main color is blue. He's good.

- It is amusing that his fans have twice screwed themselves out of a Marth alt when Fire Emblem Heroes hosted a popularity poll. You see, Marth is the star of two FE games, but the votes for Marth were split to the two versions of Marth that appeared in both games. Fans complained that the vote splitting screwed Marth, and that IS should've combined the votes for both games. Personally, I wouldn't do it since not everyone appears in two games. Ike also appeared in two games, but Micaiah only has Radiant Dawn as her game appearance. Funny thing about Ike, while Marth two game appearances screwed him twice, that did jack to Ike. Ike placed 1st & 5th on Male's side of the first FEH popularity poll.

- Young Link is amazing in Hyrule Warriors. In truth, the real character is Fierce Deity Link, but you're stuck as the kid. You need to activate Young Link's focus spirit to become Fierce Deity Link. You could achieve infinite focus forever staying as Fierce Deity for the entirely of a mission. Observe!

- Would be nice to see Ganondorf make a return appearance. Maybe bring him back in a new Zelda game but with a tragic twist to him slowly succumbing to Demise's curse.

- Not my favorite legendary.

- He's actually caught some flack with the FE fandom (the American side at least). The issues players had with Binding Blade was that Roy's growth rates suck and many players were plagued with a terrible Roy by the end of the game. It's interesting to see the Smash and FE fandoms have different opinions of the guy. Intelligent Systems expressed interest in remaking Roy's game, so hopefully everyone here would be able to try it out. Intelligent Systems is also known for being very faithful to these remakes. Perhaps too faithful if the flaws of Shadows of Valentia are anything to go by.

- I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

Pippin (Peregrin Took) · Jun 25, 2018

- I grew up primarily on the Mario side games, so Kart, Party, sports, etc. And almost every single time I would play as Peach. I’m still not 100% sure why; maybe it was a crush, maybe it was defying masculine stereotypes, I don’t know. But because I saw her kick butt alongside the men in those games I tended to see her as more than just a damsel in distress. So when I found out she was gonna be in Smash I was of course ecstatic and she did not disappoint. She’s been my Melee main since the beginning, though I cared for her less in the latter games mainly because of the voice change.

- I do have to give a small shout out to Daisy since I loved that particular costume for Peach in Melee, especially since not a lot of other Smash players used it. Really happy to see her in as an echo now; probably gonna play her over Peach if the latter retains her Brawl/Smash 4 voice.

- not much to say outside of Smash since I never got into Fire Emblem, but his design is worth mentioning. Like I mentioned with Peach, I’ve wrestled with my masculinity for a while now but Marth’s been kind of an inspiration for me. I can still be a warrior without necessarily being a brute, ya know?

- I actually have more recent memories of Mewtwo because of Ultra Sun. I tried not to play with legendaries much in previous games because I thought it broke away from the realism. How am I the only trainer in the region to encounter all these unique Pokémon? But I went and caught Mewtwo in Ultra Space, EV trained it on Poke pelago and everything, and I just couldn’t hit hard with it apart from Mega Evolution. I’m pretty sure his IVs were good to but I’m not gonna reset a ridiculous number of times for the “right nature”, so maybe that’s where I went wrong. But still, talk about disappointing

- one of my first games ever was Game and Watch Gallery so I knew about the series that way. Mr. Game and Watch was definitely a cool shout out and I loved how different he was from all the other characters in Melee. He’s getting a new lease on life in Ultimate thanks to his redesign and I’m really excited about it. Can’t wait to give him a try

Opossum · Jun 25, 2018

So I wanted to talk about three of these guys, but one in particular. Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, and Marth.

- There isn't a whole lot to say here beyond the fact that I am probably one of the few people who like Ice Climber. It's a clunky arcade-style platformer, but I love those kinds of games. It's a nice sort of downtime game like Tetris for me.

- Pokémon: The First Movie was a very big deal for younger me. Mewtwo is awesome, and pretty much the OG legendary.

- And now for the main reason I wanted to post here. I'm a big fan of Fire Emblem. There's over eight hundred named characters in the franchise, and at least seventy that I really like.

And among those Marth is my fifth favorite, behind only Chrom, Virion, Celica, and Merric, in that order. I swear it's probably just coincidence they all come from the 8-4 localized games.

"But why Marth?" you may ask. Well for one, like how Shadow Dragon is given a lot of undeserved flack (it's an incredibly underrated game), Marth gets a lot of undeserved flack as well, namely in how easily people write him off as "generic." He may have started an archetype, but he's an incredibly well written character.

Shadow Dragon's prologue sets the stage for Marth. We only get a few small tidbits of what Marth was like before this, mainly from Merric (his best friend) and Elice (his older sister). From that we can see that he was always an incredibly kind child, given that he and Elice were the only people who supported Merric in his dream to become a mage instead of a knight. But during e prologue, Marth has his castle invaded by Gra, a nation that had always been Altea's ally. His father is killed in battle, Falchion wrested from his hands by Gharnef. His mother was taken prisoner by the manakete Morzas. His sister stayed behind to ensure Altea still had a ruler. Marth was forced to flee because he is now the only person capable of wielding Falchion. During his escape, Frey (one of his closest knights) was left for dead to buy him time to escape.

In such a short amount of time, Marth's entire world crumbled before him. He had fought off Gra's soldiers and escaped, but there was now blood on his hands.

He was also fourteen years old.

And yet, despite this, he assures Sir Jagen that he would return to Altea and free her from Gra's control. He's vengeful. For the next two years, he trains on the island kingdom of Talys (meeting his future spouse Caeda in the process), and then finally sets out after freeing Talys from a pirate raid.

What happened during the Fall of Altea stuck with Marth and gave him the courage to stand against the forces that allied themselves with Dohlr, be it Gra, Grust, or Macedon. Marth isn't incredibly strong. This is shown through gameplay, where outside of normal mode and maybe hard one, he needs to solely rely on effective weaponry to do meaningful damage. Marth's whole deal is the strength he gives to his allies. His presence, his aura, it's the embodiment of hope itself.

Eventually on his quest to stop Medeus and the kingdom of Dohlr, he liberates Altea after more than two years of tyranny...only to find out that while he was forced to flee, his mother was killed by Morzas and his sister Elice was abducted by the Dark Pontifex, Gharnef, who may as well be Anime European Fantasy Palpatine. And then we get one of my favorite scenes in a Fire Emblem game.
-----------------------------

Malledus: "Sire, might I have a moment?”

Marth: “All the moments you want, Malledus. What is it?”

Malledus: "Your people have gathered outside the castle. They are overjoyed to be free again, sire, and would like very much to see their prince.”

Marth: "All right, then. I’ll go at once.”

Nyna: "Marth…perhaps you should let that wait, just until you are able to share their joy with them. We could send someone in your stead-“

Marth: "No, that would not do. Today is a momentous day for my kingdom and my people. I must celebrate with them now, not later. Anything else would be a disservice to those who died to save Altea. I am a prince before I am a son or a brother. Come, Malledus. Let us go greet my people.”

(Switches to a scene with Marth waving to crowd. Dialogue runs from a narrator on the top)

Narrator: “Thus Altea was liberated. Its people, ragged from years of Dohlrian tyranny, scrambled to the castle and flocked beneath its walls, eager to celebrate what, for many, would be remembered as the happiest days of their lives. They clapped each other on the back, laughed; and when Marth, their prince, appeared up above, they saluted their hero with a thunderous cheer:
“Glory to Marth, our prince of light! Glory to our star and savior!”
Marth smiled down at his people and waved. The great commander’s last victory of the day was commanding his tears not to flow.”

---------------------------------

That scene comes moments after Marth hears about what happened to his mother and sister. He's heartbroken. And his own war is not yet over, as although Gra was defeated, Macedon, Grust, and Dohlr itself still stood in the way. And despite this devastation, he knows this day is of utmost importance to his people. He puts on a brave face for their sake, for he knows his job is to give them hope.

During the War of Heroes (New Mystery of the Emblem), taking place three years after the War of Shadows (Shadow Dragon), Marth watches helplessly as a previously close ally, Hardin, became a mad tyrant. Unbeknownst to Marth, it is because Hardin was brainwashed and manipulated by the Darksphere. In the climactic battle between the two, Marth strikes him down, and as he's dying, Hardin comes to his senses, breaking free of the control. He only lives long enough to apologize for what he had done, and thank Marth for killing him, for sparing him from committing any more atrocities. He then dies in his arms. This gives Marth the resolve to finish his second war and slay both Gharnef and Medeus for good and all. He does so, and is crowned the King of Archanea, now overseeing the entire continent.

Marth isn't without his more lighthearted moments either. During chapter thirteen of Shadow Dragon, he gives us this gem.

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Nyna: "Humanity's hopes rest on your shoulders. I would sooner not see them crushed."
Marth: "Which? Humanity's hopes, or my shoulders?"
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As well, his relationship with Caeda is heartwarming as hell, and paints Marth as a total dork. And that's wonderful. At the end of Shadow Dragon he tries confessing his feelings for her and, well, this happens. For context, this happens after Marth totally missed all the hints Caeda dropped about having feelings for him.

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Marth: "Caeda…might I, er, have a moment?”
Caeda: “…..?”
Marth: "I did not speak with my heart before. When I said I would go to Altea, I… Well, I had meant… I hoped you would be at my side.”
Caeda: “…..!”
Marth: "As you said, we have not spoken much since Talys. With you, I felt I never had to say a word. If the battle started to take its toll, you were always there…close by…I would see you there, so beaut- ahem, so brave… and I would, um,….derive! Yes, derive great strength! Derive… ….Ugh, why is this so difficult?! Caeda, I’m just trying to tell you I-"
Caeda: “Marth… Shh. Me too… Me too.”
----------------
So he's a dork and they get together. But what's really refreshing is how their relationship is portrayed, making Marth and Caeda probably my favorite canonical couple in the franchise. This Warriors support between them is essentially a reselling of their support conversation in New Mystery, which shows how much they care for each other.

So yeah they're wonderful.

In essence, Marth is hope. Once his father King Cornelius was killed, he was the last person able to wield Falchion. And with that came a hefty responsibility he was thrust into. He knows it's his job, and his alone, to keep his people and his party safe from harm, even in the heat of battle. His famous Smash taunt, "Minna, meitetikure," (that's definitely not spelled correctly but you know what I mean) usually translates to "Everyone, look at me" if you go by a strictly literal definition. This often gives people an innaccurate view of Marth, thinking he's a show off. However, it can also mean "Everyone, eyes on me." This is far closer to Marth's actual character. He's not a cocky show off. He's telling his allies to watch him, so he can guide them through the battle safely. The new English version of this line, "Keep your eyes open," reflects this meaning even more closely.

And when it came to Awakening, a game that takes place 2000 years after the War of Heroes, Marth's name went down in history as the Hero-King. He also gained another epithet, the Lodestar. And what is a Lodestar? The guiding star that ship captains use to navigate. This is the perfect title for Marth. He inspires hope in others, leading them into battle while assuring them that he will guide them safely home, so that none of his allies will fall. A beacon of hope in the darkest of times.

Of the characters playable in Smash Bros., Marth is easily my favorite from a character perspective, a position that can only be taken if Chrom or Celica makes it in (considering Virion and Merric are no-hopers). He's a wonderful character from a sorely underrated game. And honestly Shadow Dragon has a lot of well written characters. Marth, Caeda, Nyna, Merric, Minerva, Lena, Julian, Cain, Ogma, and Camus are some of my favorites in the franchise, while New Mystery also does a lot for Jeorge, Jagen, and Hardin, adding them to the list.

Also he gets points for being Chrom's great great great great great great...great grandfather.

MrRoidley · Jun 25, 2018

- I absolutely love playing as her in SMB2 and SM3DW, plus the little Paper Mario segments. I wish she was more fleshed out in other main games, but Odyssey's post-game was a step in the right direction

- even if he's really bland sometimes I can't not love him. At this point I consider him more of a clueless guy than an actual villain. He's just too goofy

- I love them in Smash yes, but in their main game? It's a somewhat fun game to play sometimes, but idk.

- Sheik is actually one of my favorite characters in Zelda! I love her monologues and her role in that game.

- I think I love all incarnations of Zelda. I just hope she gets bigger roles in main games (not counting stuff as Sheik and Tetra), but I like her role in BOTW

- Oooooooh boy, I love him as an entity separate of Mario. Dr. Mario 64 was a huge part of my childhood, so whenever a new Dr. Mario game is out, I get really excited. (Still waiting on a Switch Dr. Mario btw)

- I actually prefer it over Pikachu. It's cuter

- Probably my favorite Star Fox member, I love he's snarky, kinda rude, but at the end of the day a good comrade and competent fighter

- Let's get out of the way that I absolutely love his design. But I don't know him much outside of what is said from him in Awakening, Tokyo Mirage Sessions and the 2-part anime. He sounds like a really cool character though! I gotta wind up and play New Mystery of The Emblem

- I really like the child/adult Link concept! I prefer other designs such as Toon Link or ALTTP/ALBW Link, though

- after I recently made a Ganondorf-related project for university, I started loving him more. In a Smash-related note, I think Ultimate finally matches Ganondorf's portrayals with the source material

- I have little to no recollection of its movie, so... I really don't have any connection to it aside from the fact I think its cool.

- To me, the closest thing of a Smash OC bar Captain Falcon and Mr Game & Watch. All I know his design and personality differ from his actual game, and I heard from many he's the worst lord, so idk... Gotta play his game to see it for myself.

- He's barely even a character, the biggest Smash OC ever I guess. I love his concept though, of paying homage to the Game & Watch era... Even if it's an era I never actually experienced

Wyoming · Jun 25, 2018

- Her personality in the spin offs are much better than in the main games, since she is mostly an objective to obtain in the latter. Enjoyed her in Super Paper Mario as well, and in general her character shines through more in that series.

- big boi Bowser stealing your lovers and coins, Always a blast to thwart his latest creative scheme. Cool design.

- well my first exposure to them was in Smash. Wobblers and chain grabbers throughout their Smash journey. And yes, I had a pocket ICs in Brawl for that reason. They are charming, and an unique character, so I like their inclusion in Smash. I'd be interested in a hiking adventure game with these two.

- vastly indifferent to her in OoT. Smash made her into more she would have been otherwise. Neat in Hyrule Warriors. I enjoyed her in Melee but after that she was too gimped or changed.

- Peach but with more of a fighting spirit. Love her interactions in the story outside of being a damsel in distress. My favorite Zelda character.

- Ha! I used to rent Dr. Mario 64 as a kid. Definitely have some fond memories of the good old Doc. I wish he was in spin offs.

- Gen 2 is my jam, but I didn't care much for baby Pokemon. Like ICs and Sheik, Smash made it more interesting. Love its cute demeanor and has a solid design. I tend to like the Pikachu evolution line in my team, so I'll catch it.

- Star Fox's sarcastic joker. A hard fella on the outside, but secretly has a soft spot in him. Fox's best teammate and deserving to be in Smash before Krystal, Slippy, and Peppy. Low-key want a Star Falco game (it's canon!) but first a Star Wolf game...

- First exposure was in Smash. I've never played a Fire Emblem game. His design is slick and I enjoyed him in Melee.

- Eh neat to play as the protagonist of OoT and MM despite never truly being in love with those games.

- Now the villain, on the other hand, is sick...Ganondorf is a villain with solid presentation and design. Being able to play as him was a treat. Loved his Hyrule Warriors reveal and abilities. And THAT Windwaker final boss...so cool and atmospheric.

- Man THE Pokemon of Gen 1, in my Smash?! Loved beating him in Puzzle League on Hard despite how frustrating that was. Stadium appearance was a surprise. The movie was also something I greatly loved as a kid. Got a soft spot for the fella.

- Who? Don't like him much in Smash due to being a worse Marth that focuses on getting close. Outside of Smash, largely indifferent and probably down there in the veterans I'd be the least disappointed to see go, but his presence is still ok with me.

- Lol when my cousin tld me the last character was a "guy who uses trash cans" I was so perplexed. Then I unlocked him and got this...thing? The first prime example of Smash making a character more endearing than he should be.

YoshiandToad · Jun 25, 2018

- Having played SMB2, I knew she could do some things even if outside her floating ability she was basically useless in that game(slow AND weak with average jumps? yeesh) and I'd grown up on Super Mario Bros. Super show so I was familiar.
Never really saw her as a fighter though, and honestly even post Smash that's remained the case, although I did enjoy Super Princess Peach and 3D World's playable roles and my opinion of her has improved. Wish she'd let Toad be his own fighter already though.

- One of the few I desperately wanted to play as after Smash 64, loved him as "King Koopa" in the Super Show, and one of the few villains I could name going into Melee. Bowser's a really fun character who's had a lot of bizarre development in the RPGs and even platformers, but I do love that no matter what he's considered a good papa. Nice characterization on the guy.

- I actually played Ice Climbers prior to their Smash reveals, but god damn did I despise this game. Nana and Popo don't really have personalities in their actual game and are too forgettable for mainstream media to develop them. Even the SSE wasn't sure what to do with them. Genuinely didn't miss these guys in Sm4sh. Simply forgot they existed.

- Sheik teaches you songs on a harp. That's it. That's the entire role. Say what you will about the state of people wanting Zelda newcomers, Sheik's entire schtick was playing a harp and being vague. Can't say I care much for this one time cross dress.

- Zelda meanwhile I have a lot of time for. I always felt she was a little more active than Peach with her magic abilities but with really crappy luck. Zelda remains one of my favourite Hyrule Warriors characters to play as, and with outings as Tetra boosting her coolness levels(but not Sheik, just seemed useless) Zelda shot up to my favourite Nintendo Princess for a good while. Twilight Princess and Hyrule Warriors had the best designed Zelda IMO, but I'm not against the current look. Hate the Skyward Sword look for her though.

- It's Mario with a new profession. Music is catchy, game is fun(although I preferred Wario's Woods for my Mario based puzzlers). Glad he's an alt outfit in Odyssey, doesn't warrant a character slot in Smash frankly. Dr. Mario isn't THAT big a deal.

- Cuter than Pikachu, had some adorable merch, then sort of vanished for a while until notch eared Pichu appeared. Honestly prefer the design of Pichu(and Raichu) to Pikachu.

- If there's one character archetype I cannot stand, it's the cool 'rival' friend who tries to outshine the protagonist, acts cocky and generally is a massive douchebag. Falco, as far as I'm led to believe(I'm not mega familiar with Starfox), is the very epitome of the douchey Vegeta-esque rival to Fox. Dislike.

- Who is Martha? Okay, outside of Smash I had no experience with Marth. Thought he was a woman for ages due to the hairband and girly boy looks. Having looked into him, Marth is still my least favourite of the Smash Bros. FE characters.

- Young Link himself is absolutely fine and I like the idea of setting off on this epic quest as a young boy and overcoming huge odds. Like Doc, I didn't see the point in Young Link when Link is right there and literally the same person in Melee.

- Didn't really know much about Ganondorf when Melee came out, although I was familiar with Ganon. I'd witnessed the Deadman Volley around a friends and thought he was a nifty boss but didn't realise he had a lot more to him than just being a cool boss fight. Now he's one of my favourite Nintendo villains just behind Bowser and fellow Zelda villain Vaati. Twilight Princess design is awful though.

- Ok, I was a huge Pokemon nerd as a kid so Mewtwo was pretty hype. I loved his movie, and I loved Psychic types being a big fan of Alakazam's line, and Mewtwo always came off as this severely menacing final fight monster(until Gold and Silver ****** him with the Dark and Steel types). Absolutely loved Mewtwo in Pokemon...can't say it translated well to Smash for me though.

- Like Marth, but cooler and with fire. Roy's actually my favourite Fire Emblem character in Smash with the very limited knowledge I have of him I know he's supposedly not very popular in the FE community...although Japanese polls heavily disagree with that statement so who knows? Glad he returned in 4 though.

- I'd actually played a Game and Watch when I was very young but didn't twig this was a character from them until I saw the name reveal. He's...well, like Roy, Falcon, Marth and Ness he may as well be a Smash OC to me.

TL;DR favourites to least favourites:

nirvanafan · Jun 25, 2018

- She has her occasional great moments like her sassiness in mario strikers or the ending of odyssey.

- I always have for some reason always enjoyed playing as the villain no matter how great or lame they are.

- Ice climber is an okay game, would have never thought they would turn into a cool smash fighter.

- Think of her as a one timer who should just fade like the others and let impa have more of the spotlight.

- I tend to like character who use magic, tends to be a very cool and interesting character in each game.

- I tend to lean towards using the less recognizable iterations of characters for some reason.

- Kind of wish wolf would take some of his spotlight since i like his personality more and the fact that he is a rival/villain.

- One of my favorite franchises, like Marth's personality and play style better but overall i do tend to like the supporting cast in the series more.

- Really creative, cool, unique character, that i really appreciate, never got around to playing any G&W games yet though.

MarioMeteor · Jun 25, 2018

- A character I'm utterly indifferent to outside of Smash.

- Never played his games.

- She didn’t really do anything in Ocarina. My only real opinion of her is that it triggers me when people misspell her name as “Shiek.”

:drmario:

- I like the Dr. Mario games, and I like Doc as a character. He’s Mario, but a doctor. He needs more games.

- Never really cared about Zelda, but I won’t deny that she has much more personality than Link. I like her in Breath of the Wild, though.

- One of Nintendo’s better villains. He can be funny, and he can be threatening. What’s not to like about him?

- No opinion on Mewtwo at all, except for “ow, the edge.”

- He’s a competent villain and he’s almost always the best part of the games he appears in. That said, I like Vaati more.

- This character... doesn’t really exist outside of Smash, does he?

- Who?

- Peach is usually just the girl that you save at the end of Mario games, but I like her in the games that give her personality.

- Never played his games, but I like his design.

- He’s Link, but young.

Vanguard227 · Jun 25, 2018

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Nintendo's own Han Solo. I like Falco a lot. He belongs to the hot-headed, overly confident badass archetype, which is a character type that I don't really care for, but for me, Falco isn't as extreme as other characters that fall into this archetype. He perfectly balances out the team. 8/10

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Despite being my main in Melee, Brawl, and 4, I've never played one of his Fire Emblem games. Although from what I've read/seen of his character, I'm loving it. Humble, noble, and kind-hearted. People may find Marth to be a little on the bland side, but I've always had a soft-spot for these characters. 9/10

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Sheik's one of those characters who you remember being amazingly badass, but in reality doesn't really do that much, aside from teaching you warping songs. Despite this, I still really liked her in Ocarina of Time. Her design is slick, and her dialogue is really memorable and poetic. She also has a really cool design in Hyrule Warriors. 8/10

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Owned Dr. Mario 64, but I suck at puzzle games. XD Other than that, there's not really much to say about the doc. He's the one character that I always forget is even IN Smash. 4/10

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Zelda is either hit or miss for me when it comes to her different incarnations in the Zelda series. She's really great in Wind Waker (As Tetra), Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword and especially in Breath of the Wild; but I find her pretty boring in Ocarina of Time (Although her being Sheik really helps), most of the 2D games, and in Twilight Princess. I'd give her a 6/10

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I really like Bowser. Especially when he has a personality other than "Bwahaha, I'm EVIL". He's pretty funny in the Mario RPG games. But even in the games where he's just your typical villain, there's something about Bowser that I find endearing. His design is also great. 8/10

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Never cared for Pichu. 2/10

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Since i'm not big into the Pokemon games, I know Mewtwo more from the movie he's tied to. He was pretty cool in that movie. He's got a really cool design too. Reminds me of Frieza from DBZ. 7/10

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The King of Evil. I freaking love Ganondorf. I love all versions of the character. You got OoT Ganondorf with his awesome design, plus the fact that he physically plays his own music in his castle on an organ is so badass. you got WW Ganondorf who is by far, the most well-written version of Ganondorf in the series, who has a pretty relateable motivation. you got TP Ganondorf, who, despite being the least cool version of the character, is still pretty boss. He stops his own execution after being impaled for crying out loud. Then you have his amazing Hyrule Warriors design. So good. 10/10

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Not much to say about G&W. It's cool that Smash pays homage to one of Nintendo's first IPs, but other than that, meh. 3/10

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Same as with G&W. But their absence in smash 4 just didn't feel right. Glad to have them back. It would be cool if Nintendo rebooted Ice Climbers and turned it into an adventure climbing game or something. 4/10

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Peach is pretty good in the Paper Mario games, but I find her incredibly bland in the mainline games. 4/10

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I really like Roy's design (Especially in smash 4), and I do enjoy playing as him, but outside of Smash he's one of the worst lords in the Fire Emblem series. He's essentially a more dense version of Marth, personality-wise, and has an insanely late promotion. His only saving grace is the Binding Blade. So outside of Smash, I'd give him a 5/10, despite me liking him a lot in Smash.

-

I love Young Link, especially in Majora's Mask, where he kind of has the personality/experience of an adult, but is still a kid, due to OoT's ending. I really wish Smash Ultimate had Young Link use the Gilded Sword and Mirror Shield from MM. Although I like Adult Link a little more, Young Link is still awesome for all the same reasons that I stated in the previous character opinion thread. 9/10

From favourite to least favourite:

ThyCheshireCat · Jun 25, 2018

Man the heap of characters added that i can't say much on made this difficult to make meaningful... well, at least next time i'll have at least three characters that i could write whole essays on.

I love Bowser, he's manages to be badass, intimidating and adorable in design alone, and his personality shows traits of all three. Bowser is also a sympathetic character, he hasn't had a traumatic past or anything but he's probably the most human Mario character, he may be a dictator but he's also a great father and has many sides to his personality compared to a lot of the other characters who are just 'Yea, Wahoo' cherry all the damn time.

I don't have much to say about Peach but I really don't like her very much. She's annoying, a bit of a douche and she gets kidnapped so much that she probably spends more time at Bowser's Castle than her own. Also she's probably a much worse ruler than Bowser, way, by that i mean, she's bad at ruling, i mean Peach really sucks as a ruler, she doesn't have half an army, keeps paintings that let villains literally just drop into her kingdom, has literally nothing but a drawbridge to stop Bowser from just walking in and taking her. She's lucky Mario doesn't just get annoyed and leaver her.

Dr Mario is just Mario with a doctor suit, that's really all he is, read my opinions of Mario on the 64 one for more information. Dr Mario is my favourite puzzle game series though.

While i don't know much about TLoZ, i do know that Ganondorf is a very intimidating figure, he's not and ordinary main villain by Nintendo standards, most Nintendo villains have a charming and comedic personality but Ganondorf is different, he's probably rivalled by only Ridley for how dark he is. and yes in some games he is given personality but in most he's just a plain badass. Ganondorf does need much of a personality, he's still both a freaking badass and a likeable villain without it.

Ok she plays the harp and teaches you a few things, why the heck is she considered important enough for Smash, i get that she makes Zelda more interesting to play as but Zelda herself is perfectly fine without Sheik taking up a move slot, but this is outside Smash so.... i have literally nothing to say.

I like Zelda more than Peach by a huge margin.... that's literally all i can say, I don't know why but she just appeals to me more than Peach does.

He's Link... but young... and wears masks... not much to say about him.

I know literally nothing about Fire Emblem.

Eh, they're not much outside of Smash, i could probably write more about the duck from Duck Hunt than these guys, they jump, club seals, yetis, and polar bears, throw a hammer around and are eskimos... that's literally everything to them, so like the FE characters i have no opinion on them.

It's literally just a Pikachu but way worse in every way, stats, design, there's literally nothing cool to it.... except the one with the ukalele in that one Pokemon Ranger game, that's kinda cool.

Eh, Mewtwo's pretty cool, he's no Rayqauza but he's powerful, looks awesome and he's a psychic type, which is always a bonus... megas leave something to desire though, i mean MMY is kinda cool but MMX is just boring.

Falco looks pretty freaking cool to be honest, and he's got a cool personality.... but when it comes to blue birds this guys not nothing on the king. Nevertheless despite not be a Dededeity like Dedede, Falco is still cool... (i really shouldn't be comparing him to Dedede should i....) He's pretty cool in StarFox from what i've seen.

This guy's underrated, yeah he's a flat person that does cartoony things but you lot better thank this guy for your Mario, Kirby, Link and Pikachu. this guy represents Nintendo's early years in gaming and i love him for it.

From fave to least fave

/

Zinith · Jun 25, 2018

Opossum said:
So I wanted to talk about three of these guys, but one in particular. Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, and Marth.

- There isn't a whole lot to say here beyond the fact that I am probably one of the few people who like Ice Climber. It's a clunky arcade-style platformer, but I love those kinds of games. It's a nice sort of downtime game like Tetris for me.

- Pokémon: The First Movie was a very big deal for younger me. Mewtwo is awesome, and pretty much the OG legendary.

- And now for the main reason I wanted to post here. I'm a big fan of Fire Emblem. There's over eight hundred named characters in the franchise, and at least seventy that I really like.

And among those Marth is my fifth favorite, behind only Chrom, Virion, Celica, and Merric, in that order. I swear it's probably just coincidence they all come from the 8-4 localized games.

"But why Marth?" you may ask. Well for one, like how Shadow Dragon is given a lot of undeserved flack (it's an incredibly underrated game), Marth gets a lot of undeserved flack as well, namely in how easily people write him off as "generic." He may have started an archetype, but he's an incredibly well written character.

Shadow Dragon's prologue sets the stage for Marth. We only get a few small tidbits of what Marth was like before this, mainly from Merric (his best friend) and Elice (his older sister). From that we can see that he was always an incredibly kind child, given that he and Elice were the only people who supported Merric in his dream to become a mage instead of a knight. But during e prologue, Marth has his castle invaded by Gra, a nation that had always been Altea's ally. His father is killed in battle, Falchion wrested from his hands by Gharnef. His mother was taken prisoner by the manakete Morzas. His sister stayed behind to ensure Altea still had a ruler. Marth was forced to flee because he is now the only person capable of wielding Falchion. During his escape, Frey (one of his closest knights) was left for dead to buy him time to escape.

In such a short amount of time, Marth's entire world crumbled before him. He had fought off Gra's soldiers and escaped, but there was now blood on his hands.

He was also fourteen years old.

And yet, despite this, he assures Sir Jagen that he would return to Altea and free her from Gra's control. He's vengeful. For the next two years, he trains on the island kingdom of Talys (meeting his future spouse Caeda in the process), and then finally sets out after freeing Talys from a pirate raid.

What happened during the Fall of Altea stuck with Marth and gave him the courage to stand against the forces that allied themselves with Dohlr, be it Gra, Grust, or Macedon. Marth isn't incredibly strong. This is shown through gameplay, where outside of normal mode and maybe hard one, he needs to solely rely on effective weaponry to do meaningful damage. Marth's whole deal is the strength he gives to his allies. His presence, his aura, it's the embodiment of hope itself.

Eventually on his quest to stop Medeus and the kingdom of Dohlr, he liberates Altea after more than two years of tyranny...only to find out that while he was forced to flee, his mother was killed by Morzas and his sister Elice was abducted by the Dark Pontifex, Gharnef, who may as well be Anime European Fantasy Palpatine. And then we get one of my favorite scenes in a Fire Emblem game.
-----------------------------

Malledus: "Sire, might I have a moment?”

Marth: “All the moments you want, Malledus. What is it?”

Malledus: "Your people have gathered outside the castle. They are overjoyed to be free again, sire, and would like very much to see their prince.”

Marth: "All right, then. I’ll go at once.”

Nyna: "Marth…perhaps you should let that wait, just until you are able to share their joy with them. We could send someone in your stead-“

Marth: "No, that would not do. Today is a momentous day for my kingdom and my people. I must celebrate with them now, not later. Anything else would be a disservice to those who died to save Altea. I am a prince before I am a son or a brother. Come, Malledus. Let us go greet my people.”

(Switches to a scene with Marth waving to crowd. Dialogue runs from a narrator on the top)

Narrator: “Thus Altea was liberated. Its people, ragged from years of Dohlrian tyranny, scrambled to the castle and flocked beneath its walls, eager to celebrate what, for many, would be remembered as the happiest days of their lives. They clapped each other on the back, laughed; and when Marth, their prince, appeared up above, they saluted their hero with a thunderous cheer:
“Glory to Marth, our prince of light! Glory to our star and savior!”
Marth smiled down at his people and waved. The great commander’s last victory of the day was commanding his tears not to flow.”

---------------------------------

That scene comes moments after Marth hears about what happened to his mother and sister. He's heartbroken. And his own war is not yet over, as although Gra was defeated, Macedon, Grust, and Dohlr itself still stood in the way. And despite this devastation, he knows this day is of utmost importance to his people. He puts on a brave face for their sake, for he knows his job is to give them hope.

During the War of Heroes (New Mystery of the Emblem), taking place three years after the War of Shadows (Shadow Dragon), Marth watches helplessly as a previously close ally, Hardin, became a mad tyrant. Unbeknownst to Marth, it is because Hardin was brainwashed and manipulated by the Darksphere. In the climactic battle between the two, Marth strikes him down, and as he's dying, Hardin comes to his senses, breaking free of the control. He only lives long enough to apologize for what he had done, and thank Marth for killing him, for sparing him from committing any more atrocities. He then dies in his arms. This gives Marth the resolve to finish his second war and slay both Gharnef and Medeus for good and all. He does so, and is crowned the King of Archanea, now overseeing the entire continent.

Marth isn't without his more lighthearted moments either. During chapter thirteen of Shadow Dragon, he gives us this gem.

---------------
Nyna: "Humanity's hopes rest on your shoulders. I would sooner not see them crushed."
Marth: "Which? Humanity's hopes, or my shoulders?"
---------------

As well, his relationship with Caeda is heartwarming as hell, and paints Marth as a total dork. And that's wonderful. At the end of Shadow Dragon he tries confessing his feelings for her and, well, this happens. For context, this happens after Marth totally missed all the hints Caeda dropped about having feelings for him.

---------------
Marth: "Caeda…might I, er, have a moment?”
Caeda: “…..?”
Marth: "I did not speak with my heart before. When I said I would go to Altea, I… Well, I had meant… I hoped you would be at my side.”
Caeda: “…..!”
Marth: "As you said, we have not spoken much since Talys. With you, I felt I never had to say a word. If the battle started to take its toll, you were always there…close by…I would see you there, so beaut- ahem, so brave… and I would, um,….derive! Yes, derive great strength! Derive… ….Ugh, why is this so difficult?! Caeda, I’m just trying to tell you I-"
Caeda: “Marth… Shh. Me too… Me too.”
----------------
So he's a dork and they get together. But what's really refreshing is how their relationship is portrayed, making Marth and Caeda probably my favorite canonical couple in the franchise. This Warriors support between them is essentially a reselling of their support conversation in New Mystery, which shows how much they care for each other.

So yeah they're wonderful.

In essence, Marth is hope. Once his father King Cornelius was killed, he was the last person able to wield Falchion. And with that came a hefty responsibility he was thrust into. He knows it's his job, and his alone, to keep his people and his party safe from harm, even in the heat of battle. His famous Smash taunt, "Minna, meitetikure," (that's definitely not spelled correctly but you know what I mean) usually translates to "Everyone, look at me" if you go by a strictly literal definition. This often gives people an innaccurate view of Marth, thinking he's a show off. However, it can also mean "Everyone, eyes on me." This is far closer to Marth's actual character. He's not a cocky show off. He's telling his allies to watch him, so he can guide them through the battle safely. The new English version of this line, "Keep your eyes open," reflects this meaning even more closely.

And when it came to Awakening, a game that takes place 2000 years after the War of Heroes, Marth's name went down in history as the Hero-King. He also gained another epithet, the Lodestar. And what is a Lodestar? The guiding star that ship captains use to navigate. This is the perfect title for Marth. He inspires hope in others, leading them into battle while assuring them that he will guide them safely home, so that none of his allies will fall. A beacon of hope in the darkest of times.

Of the characters playable in Smash Bros., Marth is easily my favorite from a character perspective, a position that can only be taken if Chrom or Celica makes it in (considering Virion and Merric are no-hopers). He's a wonderful character from a sorely underrated game. And honestly Shadow Dragon has a lot of well written characters. Marth, Caeda, Nyna, Merric, Minerva, Lena, Julian, Cain, Ogma, and Camus are some of my favorites in the franchise, while New Mystery also does a lot for Jeorge, Jagen, and Hardin, adding them to the list.

Also he gets points for being Chrom's great great great great great great...great grandfather.

May I request that you put that whole Marth section under a spoiler tag? That's quite a large wall-of-text

Pyra · Jun 25, 2018

: Honestly, the most boring of the Nintendo princesses. Her Smash Bros incarnation is my favorite, especially in Ultimate, so outside of it she's not super appealing to me. Thinking about it, she's rather bland and Super Princess Peach was a weird idea. It didn't make her more interesting to me. She's more okay in the RPG games, but so is everyone else.

: Bowser, on the other hand, is real fun to me. Mostly because of the (better) Paper Mario games as well as the Mario (and Luigi) RPG games, he's portrayed as kind of a lovable airhead. I find him funny, and he's a fun character to play in other games.

: Ice Climber was a fun game I played 5 minutes of.

: I love Sheik. Sheik is just OoT Zelda but the implications behind her existence is awesome (she hasn't made a proper appearance since, right?). It just reinforces the fact that Zelda is a badass.

: Zelda in general, I think, is a good Nintendo Princess. I like her various incarnations (...Especially as Sheik). Tetra is cool, and I think BotW Zelda is pretty neat too. I just really like Zelda, haha.

: I'm not sure. I don't have a problem with him, but it's just odd to me that Mario has a doctorate and thinks pills the size of his head are a good idea.

: I dislike Pikachu. Pichu and Raichu I like. Though, I only like Pichu because of Smash.... so...

: I was never exposed to Star Fox as a kid. I wouldn't know. I guess from what I know from playthroughs of Star Fox I've seen fairly recently, I'd say that he's... "cool"? Peppy is better.

: I don't know about his game, I've not played that Fire Emblem.

: Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game. Young Link, in that game, is one of my favorite iterations of Link. My favorite is BotW Link, though.

: Ganondorf has always been one of my favorite fictional villains. When I was younger, and I beta tested Club Penguin, my username was "Gannondorf" (yes, with the typo).

: I think Mewtwo is a cool legendary, though I'm not super fond of Kanto. I also like Team Rocket more than some of the other teams despite not being super fond of Kanto. I think both Mega Mewtwos are silly looking but I like the fighting type one more from a conceptual standpoint. It's also weird that there are apparently more than one...

: I don't know about his game, I've not played that Fire Emblem. This time with fire.

: They should release more GnW devices, and not Game and Watch collection games for handheld consoles.

Keeshu · Jun 25, 2018

I don't care about Peach at all. I do know people that do like her though. Never played her game either.

I don't care about Bowser. He's just a big dummy that tries to win with brute force. I can't get behind that. With that said, he does have his moments.

Ice Climbers don't even pair up in their original game! They don't really have any personality in their game either. I remember having a blast with their old game, but was shocked when they got in smash because I was the only person who knew about their game out of everyone I knew..... Hell, that's still the case today!

Ninjas are cool. Sheik is pretty much a Ninja. Thus, I think Sheik is cool......... Yeah that's pretty much about it. Sometimes you don't need something super deep to love something.

Most Zelda interpretations make Zelda this incredibly boring serious character. So I didn't care about Zelda for the longest time, but I did appreciate that sometimes she actually gets stuff done, unlike Princess Peach over there. However, Skyward Sword and beyond they've kind of made her a bit more human. So I like her now. Also Tetra turning into Zelda making her a boring character really made me hate all zeldas for a while because Zelda in that game was boring (minus ganondorf fight... she was cool there. but I blame tetra for that).

Mario as a Doctor, but without all the joys of Charles Martinet's fun voice..... Pass. Dr. Mario is a really fun game though.

I don't remember anything about Pichu outside of Smash to be honest (minus that gif of Pichu smacking it's butt from one of the moves that everyone loves to post). Though if I remember right, pretty much a cute underdog type of character. So I guess I like Pichu.

I love Falco's personality. He's the best sarcastic arse friend to have your back.

Marth is an incredibly generic anime swordsman. I just don't care about him at all. That's actually one of the reasons why I don't play him much in Smash because I can't care about Marth at all as a character despite his gameplay in Smash feeling basically perfect. I've never played Fire Emblem, but I am interested. That perma-death mechanic looks very appealing as I like having a reason to care about my units. Hated the grindfest that is the mobile game is though.

Safe to say Young Link is the most experienced of the Links because of all his time shenanigans, so seeing little touches to reflect that is nice. Like those sweet flips he does instead of normal jumps in Majora's Mask. It's weird seeing a serious kid, and Young Link looks weird because he looks kinda chubby because his arms and legs are so thick. Other than that not much to say about Young Link because he doesn't really have a personality cause he's mostly a blank slate character. I love the concept behind Majora's Mask, but there are a few pretty bad game mechanics I hate (doing the Zora Egg quest with 1 bottle made me stop Majora's Mask and I've yet to pick it back up.... I do want to go back to it eventually though)

Ganondorf? More like GANONDORK! But seriously, I just can't handle just how much cheese this guy applies to his lines (though pretty much all villains that talk in Zelda are cheesy as hell. It's so weird). Considering how serious everyone acts normally, seeing his lines seem really out of place both in Ocarina and in Twilight Princess...... Though I ****ing love his speech in Wind Waker, makes him a bit more human and a more interesting character. I can't tell if I like or dislike his design, but it is unique for sure.

Mewtwo probably has the biggest story of the Smash cast for me. Mewtwo was going to be my main once I found out he was an unlockable in Melee. Since I was a kid, I loved him because of the movie for being the bad guy and the thought of being so smart that you can blow things up with your mind was extremely awesome. If Pikachu/Kadabra were not my first level 100 Pokemon, then Mewtwo definitely was my first Level 100 Pokemon and I farmed the Elite Four with him. My love for Mewtwo died once I played him in Melee. Unlike literally every other character in Melee, I just could not even do decent with mewtwo and he was the character I probably had the lowest win ratio with. Then I realized how foolish it was to like a character because of how powerful they were. So I didn't care for Mewtwo for a while until I saw the part of the first pokemon movie that was cut which makes Mewtwo a completely different character, as opposed to the "Mr badass in control, cannot lose" type of dude he was. So then I really liked Mewtwo again for different reasons this time since I knew the reasons why he was so pissed off at everyone.

Basically same thing I said about Marth, except Roy has a bit more flare to him.

No personality, nothing to look at visually. Don't really care about him at all. I could have seen myself enjoying his games back in the ancient times of video gaming, but I'm just not interested in playing his games now.

Krysco · Jun 26, 2018

Peach is...okay. Spends a bit too much time being nothing more than the goal of Mario games though. Not much of a personality either, partially due to the issue mentioned in the second sentence.

He's awesome in Paper Mario 1-3 and M&L BiS and can even end up menacing like in Galaxy but other times he's...Sunshine and Sticker Star Bowser.

Never played the Ice Climber game outside of the little demo that was in Brawl so I can't exactly say much on how they are outside of Smash. Wasn't an NES kid growing up.

Melee was my first exposure to her so when I finally got around to playing OoT, she wasn't a big surprise to me at all. If anything, she's proof that some incarnations of Zelda can do more than get kidnapped and possessed.

Well Toon Zelda isn't a character so I can talk about her here. Toon is adorable with Tetra being a neat alter ego. TP one has the best design imo although BotW one has a nice outfit. Didn't really get much of a personality till BotW from what I recall and...it's just okay. Oh wait, SS exists, let me quickly forget it does again because the less I think about that game, the better for me.

Never played the games. No comment. Thoughts on OG Mario are in the other thread.

A cuter bugger than the other one though again, his anime appearance is his best one, namely that short where the two Pichu bros run away from the Houndour. Never bother to get one in any games because I don't have the patience for breeding. Spiky ear one is neat.

I mostly love him for Smash but in Starfox, he's alright. He's 100% inferior to Wolf in Assault's multiplayer and I remember his ship in Command being decent. Quite enjoy his cocky attitude otherwise.

I've only played Shadow Dragon out of his games (and partially the Famicom original) and I can't read Japanese so I can only base my opinion of him off that and...I guess Codename Steam and his dlc appearances in other FE games. A pretty lackluster lord but there's an amazing exploit in the Famicom game where the enemy will always attack him if they can, allowing injured units to get away or get healed. Not much of a personality and he doesn't even do most of the recruiting from what I recall, Caeda/Shiida does.

He exists in OoT and **** MM. Love him in Smash but outside of it? I'll stick to the still young but fatter headed Link tyvm.

Love him in Smash but outside of that, he's just okay. Nearly every game is him trying to take over Hyrule or someone trying to bring him back so he can do that. Has a pretty stupid moment in WW when he allows the King to touch the Triforce before him. Pretty neat how in BotW, he's pretty much turned into nothing more than a raging, hating beast.

Cool in the anime, never used one in games and I probably never would as I'm not a fan of legendaries.

No comment till I get around to playing his game. Got a translated physical version of his game so I'll actually be able to form an opinion on his personality whenever I get around to it.

Never played one, not even the collections that are available today. I'd give them a shot if it didn't cost me anything. Can't exactly say much on design or personality.

Impa4Smash · Jun 26, 2018

Okay in normal Mario games, but in Mario/Paper Mario RPGS I love the guy

Actually a big fan. I had Dr. Mario 64 as a kid and played the game all the time. Probably in my top 10 64 games

My favorite member of Star Fox. I like his Han Solo attitude. Plus his design is dope

Eh. He's great in Wind Waker (when he actually has a reason for being the way he is), but honestly he's overused. There's far too many interesting Zelda villains - Ghirahim, Zant, Vaati, Skull Kid/Majora, Veran - that either get relegated to being his lackeys, or just get stuck as one-offs. I'd like less Ganondorf, unless they really make him more interesting.

The OG. Not my favorite lord, but - to be honest - there's no lord I dislike. Shadow Dragon is probably one of my least favorite Fire Emblem's though.

I still remember getting to him as a kid. And him being the villain in the first Pokemon movie. Good times. Great legendary

I mean, he exists. But I didn't know he existed before Smash

She's okay. I prefer Daisy

Adorable. Maybe too adorable. They were so preoccupied with whether or not they could make something cuter than Pikachu, that they didn't stop to think if they should.

I love them both. Zelda best Nintendo princess. And the Sheik twist got me as a kid. Plus, Impa practically raised Sheik so that makes her even cooler

Can't say. Never played his game.

I love him mainly because I'm such a big fan of both OoT and MM.

I know nothing about them outside of Smash, except that they have one game. They should bring the series back. They're adorable. I'd play it

RouffWestie · Jun 26, 2018

He was at his best in Bowser's Inside Story. He had some awesome, memorable moments, and it was fun to fight as him.

I liked her portrayal in TTYD and Super Paper Mario.

They must have fun coming up with new designs for her every game.

I still wish they had a comeback in some way. Though i feel that way about most forgotten Nintendo IPs.

I've always found it to have a strange design and name.

The N64 version of Chill is definitely my favorite. My only issue with it is that some of the instruments are a little "fuzzy," but I don't know about game music enough to go into depth about it.

It's crazy that he goes through all that stuff in OoT without even being slightly intimidated.

Game & Watch games are very well designed; easy to pick up and play, can occupy you for long stretches of time, and get more challenging the longer you play. They're fun and could have been pushed as a mobile franchise, but Nintendo missed the boat in my opinion.

I don't have an opinion on them though I've played some of their games.

I've never played a Fire Emblem game.

Zinith · Jun 26, 2018

Here's Part 3 (Brawl):
https://smashboards.com/threads/whats-your-opinion-of-the-brawl-18-outside-of-smash-part-3.456040/

AlphaSSB · Jun 27, 2018

- The classic damsel in distress. Although I do like her, she's never been too interesting to me. Being nothing more than an objective in the games doesn't leave a lot to work with.

- The classic big bad. I like Bowser, although not necessarily a fan of how he's been portrayed as more goofy as of late. Still though, one of my favorite gaming villains.

- I've really no opinion of Popo and Nana outside of Smash. Never played Ice Climber, and was first introduced to them in Melee. The best thing I can really say is that I supported them to return when they were left out of Smash 3DS/Wii U.

- My first impression of Sheik was thinking she was a boy. Melee's transformation mechanic and trophies taught me otherwise. Never played Ocarina of Time all the way through, so Smash is what taught me Zelda was Sheik. Otherwise, she's one of my favorite Zelda characters, with a great design and interesting abilities.

- Oh, the girl is Zelda was my first impression of her growing up. Zelda has always been a character I've liked, throughout many of her iterations. I always liked Twilight Princess's Zelda incarnation, which was more stoic and powerful. She was my favorite until Breath of the Wild, whose incarnation of Zelda has become my favorite. Breath of the Wild did a lot to give Zelda more personality, and made her a much more likeable character. Still sad we didn't get Zelda based off her Breath of the Wild design in Smash.

- Just Mario in a doctor's coat. Played the games, which were fun, sure, but there's nothing much to say here. It's just Mario. In a doctor's coat.

- I remember Pichu from the Pokemon show, movies, and games. I think most of my experience with Pichu came from Pokemon Channel, which had clips of 'The Pichu Bros.' in it, if my memory serves. Always a cute little thing, hard to hate it.

- Falco is another one of my favorite characters in gaming. He's like the 'older brother' type character, where he's a bit of a ****, but is there for you when you need him. He's the best pilot on the team, and he's not afraid to show it. He's also had some good character development in the series, where his loner tendencies are at odds with him being with the team he loves. Eventually, he may leave the team, but it's a matter of time before he comes back.

- Nothing too interesting about Marth if you ask me. He's a hero, has great fighting abilities, and speaks Japanese. Pretty cool, but that's all I can say. I've no interest in Fire Emblem, so I'm sure there's more to him, but I don't care to learn.

- I was always confused why there was a 'young' Link in Smash. Only made sense to me when I was older. Young Link is pretty cool, going through time and fighting against enemies despite being just a kid. Not to mention persevering through an inbound apocalypse.

- Power. Raw power. And I like that. Ganondorf is a badass in just about any iteration. Twilight Princess showed this best, where he survived being impaled with a sword, killed the Sage who drove it through him, and kept the thing as a trophy. Not to mention this guy has a swine version of lycanthropy, where he's able to transform into a giant, deadly beast. One of my favorite villains in gaming, without a doubt.

- THE Pokemon legendary. Mewtwo was always a favorite of mine growing up. His elusiveness, his strength, the fact that he's a legendary, etc. The movies based off him made him even greater for me. Mewtwo in simply awesome.

- Never cared too much for Roy. I've no interest in Fire Emblem, so I know nothing of him outside of Smash. His design is alright, and fire abilities with his sword is pretty cool, but that's all I have to say for this character.

- 'Black cartoon guy' was the best I could say for him when I was younger. Never played any of the Game & Watch games, never cared too much for him in Smash otherwise.

PF9 · Jun 27, 2018

Mewtwo was the main villain in the first Pokemon movie. I have fond memories of that movie.

Pichu is my favorite baby Pokemon, and my favorite G2 Pokemon. Pichu, being the baby form of Pikachu is even cuter. You could say the Pichu Bros. adventures are classic Hollywood cartoons meet Muppet Babies (since much of the Pichu Posse are really young, and the situations they get in remind me a lot of classic cartoons).

DreamcastBoy99 · Jun 28, 2018

- I’ve played the NES game and watched the 1996 two-parter. I don’t care about his games, he just sounds cool. Not much I can say about him.

- he’s just a stick figure that jumps out of buildings or airplanes.

- this guy is awesome. His backstory was original for the time and then Sega took it and ripped it off and made Shadow.

- “Hey Einstein, something’s wrong with the G-Diffuser!” I know it’s from a YTP but still. Falco is kind of a jerk.

TMNTSSB4 · Jun 29, 2018

- all legends due to my Mario bias

- game is nice

- Zelda is 90% waifu (TP, CD games, and the og cartoon versions don’t matter), Sheik is cool, Link=Link...so he is great, and Ganondorf needs to win more often tbh

- Pikachu >

- cool rebellious like pilot...hands off his bread though

- thank you guys for introducing me to Fire Emblem guys

- awesome Pokémon movie

- Granddaddy

Zinith · Jun 29, 2018

Part 4 (Smash 4) is up:
https://smashboards.com/threads/whats-your-opinion-of-the-sm4sh-21-outside-of-smash-part-4.456127/

ZagarTulip · Jun 29, 2018

- Peach is going to probably still remain a fun smash character with as much interesting moves as she had. I am wondering however about the changes to the Toad move, but she still could remain fun nevertheless. I have seen her be super useful in battles before.

- Bowser is one of my mains in rotation, he will always be one of the characters to play although now in SSBU, I would have to unlock him, which isn't too bad because I never have a "set in stone" main but he definitely will be on my unlocking radar.
:drmario:

- Not too much to say about Dr. Mario although when he was added in SSB4, I was glad he kept his down-b and not give him a Doctor version of FLUDD. But not too much new to say.

- Zelda, according to fans, seem like she has more competitive potential. I am not too picky about that because I like to play Smash for fun and I feel that Zelda is just a fun character.

- Not much to say, she seems solid

- Still curious about what his final Smash will be, and he seems different enough from Link to make them different characters, Young Link could be on my unlocking radar when the game comes out tbh.

- Ganondorf now uses a sword in his smash attacks which is nice because I remember when SSB4 had an unlockable custom move where Ganondorf used a Sword. But overall, I just want to give Ganondorf a chance for him to be better.

- Pichu, I am just glad he is in because he was just a fun character to play in SSBM. No real competitive comments to say there.

- Not too much to say, he seems solid

- Not too much to say

- Marth definitely could be good like he always has been. He was a very popularly played character in SSBM, so it is possible for him to be a good in SSBU.

- Not too much to say

- Mr. G&W's new aesthetic changes is interesting for sure, I haven't been a very extensive Mr. G&W player.

- Ice Climbers is nice to see again. I feel they could be pretty good.

Diddy Kong · Jun 30, 2018

: She made lots of sense, and wasn't all too surprised to see her as a newcomer. Her moves are very fitting, even if most is creative liberty. Her roles in the Mario games aren't anything special, but she sometimes has a little surprise going for her. Enjoyed her most in the Paper Mario games, especially Super Paper Mario.

: Nintendo's biggest villain, again no surprises when I first saw him included. Was also happy to see another heavy weight. As far as his character goes, he's insanely enjoyable in the Mario games most of the time. More so than Mario. Really liked Bowser's Inside Story as well. Blunt, silly, brutish and sarcastic, what's not to love?
:drmario:

: Wasn't a big fan of him, never played a Dr.Mario game before. Still didn't. Not my favorite alternative version of Mario either, that would easily go be Paper Mario.

: Was quite a surprise to see her become playable honestly! Only played Ocarina of Time, and Link's Awakening before Melee. But her Ocarina of Time role left an impression. Was kinda bummed when I discovered Din's Fire didn't work like in Ocarina of Time however.

: Another big surprise. And retrospectively, it's very logical to just about everyone. Ocarina of Time was great, but never bonded with the character untill later, when I understood more of the debt of the story of OoT.

: At the time I wasn't surprised, felt he was fitting for Smash. Retrospectively, it's close to a miracle he happened at all. Had a great experience battling him in Ocarina of Time. Always wanted to teach him a lesson since the second cutscene with him as Young Link. Very well written character in Ocarina of Time.

: Was happy with his inclusion. Never played Majora's Mask, but watched a friend play the game quite a lot. Liked him better than Adult Link back then.

: Yes, loved him as well! Pokemon Gold was probably the one game I played the most prior to Melee. And therefore I also played Pichu a great deal, Pikachu was also my favorite Pokemon and I liked his pre-evolution.

: My favorite big surprise for Melee! Was extremely excited to see him in Melee. The thought passed me whilst playing Smash 64, that Mewtwo would be awesome in Smash but probably "too powerful" :laugh:

Look how that turned out. Now he's my favorite Pokemon. But before he was also at least in my Top 3, and of course Pokemon The First Movie also left it's impact, as well as the battles in Pokemon Stadium, and Generation 1 of Pokemon in general. Most hyped newcomer till Diddy came to Brawl.

: Didn't know who he was before Melee. After I've played Star Fox Adventures, Command, and a little 64, I like the character a lot. Probably most in Adventures and Command honestly. And what's not to love?

: Of course I didn't know of him before Melee. Played Shadow Dragon and FE12 ever since though. And began to like his character. He's not generic by any means. FE12 is probably one of my favorite Fire Emblem titles as well. Around Top 5 of my favorite Fire Emblem Lords.

: Mah Boi since FE6 got a fan translation. Well.. probably a bit later than that. But FE6 is a great game regardless, and Roy is a well written character and quite underrated. Most satisfying promotion in all of Fire Emblem.

: He's not really a proper "character". But well, he made a cute cameo in DKC Returns.

: Till this day, I still care very little for them. Their inclusion confused me.

Luigi player · Jul 1, 2018

It's nice that she's there, because I like Mario games. She's usually just the princess that's getting rescued, though. But I do think it's nice to have her in playable roles too. Like in Mario Party and other spinoffs, as well as SMB2 and 3D World.

Pretty cool to have Marios "Boss" character in Smash! So you can play like being one. Besides him being there and being a cool boss he's not particularly special to me.

I did play the Ice Climber game on the NES a few times.. it's difficult since you have no control if you jump, but it was still pretty fun. I kinda like them and it's cool that they're two, so they're a pretty unique character and style. I was a bit sad when they didn't make Smash4 and I wanted them back. While i did know them since their beginning and somewhat like them in Smash, I don't really feel too much about them.

I have no connection to the character besides Smash, but she is fun to play in it.

No connection to her again. I like her new look more than the old ones (though I wanted Botw), but other than that I don't really care.

It's really hard to rate these clones for me. He's basically the same character as Mario.. so technically I should like him about the same. But since he's just an additional Mario in a different outfit I don't care about him. I did enjoy the Dr. Mario games, though - fun times.

Pikachu clone that's pretty bad and useless. I like Pokemon, but it's a baby I don't really care about... It would get a 1 or 2, but I still like it more than the Zelda characters, lol. That being said, I'm kinda hyped about it in Ultimate. Could be fun to troll around. ^^

Ah, Fox' comrade. I think I always liked Slippy the most since I like frogs, but Falco's pretty cool, too! He had a fun playstyle in Melee as well, which is where I started liking him even more. Still, I only played Starfox 64 a bit with friends and borrowed it once, but never owned it, so there's not too much of a connection to him.

Didn't know him before Melee, but I guess he was(/is) decently fun to play in Smash.

Hard to rank, because he's the same character as Link, except his younger version. I'd rate him like 0, since I think he's the most unneeded character in the game, but I still kinda liked him more than his older counterpart, since he's a bit quicker and stuff.

No connection and don't really care about him.

My favorite character in Melee (2nd/3rd are Luigi and DK). I always loved how powerful Mewtwo was/is in the Pokemon games. The Stadium games (especially the first one) really made me like it a lot!

Didn't know him before Melee (kinda obvious since his game wasn't released lol). I think I might like him just a tiny bit more than Marth, since he seems cooler.

Pretty unnecessary addition in my opinion. While he does represent the G&W era/games and I did have/play some of them, he is basically almost "nobody" to me.

Ganondorf My MAN · Jul 2, 2018

- Bad.

Tried fighting against Ganondorf one time when he captured her.

- Just Link except has a better bladder and is in OOT.

- OOT Ganondorf is an elite character. Best king of Gerudo Valley ever, and should have killed Link when he first saw him… too bad he always loses to that elf.

Zinith · Jul 6, 2018

I'll use my Yoshi powers to FLUTTERJUMP this topic up!!!

FirestormNeos · Jul 6, 2018

: it's a link, but smol.

: Personally, I prefer Galaga.
:drmario:

: My health insurance can't afford this doctor, so I wouldn't know. "Thanks," American Healthcare System.

: He was... Actually, I can't remember what exactly he did in Fire Emblem Warriors. I just know that he was often in my team toward the end.

: Wasn't in Fire Emblem Warriors, so I know nothing about him other than "he was in a game or something."

: I prefer Daisy tbh.

: Varies from incarnation to incarnation, but most of them are cinnamon rolls whose smiles I want to protecc.

: If we're supposed to interpret Sheik as "Zelda likes to crossdress/is genderfluid/some other LGBT+ representation-related thing" then I'm down with that. If we're supposed to interpret Sheik as "See? Zelda's not a Damsel in Distress! She's independant!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... that's cute.

: Yawn. Can we please get Giga Bowser in a main series mario game yet?

: He's an alright villain, but I still prefer Darth Vader.

: Not in my Top 5 Legendaries, but he is in the Top 10.

: Adorable. Was made slightly less adorable by being useless in Melee, but adorable nonetheless.

: ARE YOU SUPPPOSED TO BE SIBLINGS? MARRIED? WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO EACHOTHER? AND WHY ARE YOU HARASSING POLAR BEARS AND NAVY SEALS?

: In trying to pretend to have an opinion on this character, I realized that Samus has been a character that exists longer than I've been on this planet. That's just surreal.

Zinith · Jul 28, 2018

Bump this topic because it's been 3 weeks :yoshi:

Apollo500 · Jul 28, 2018

Getting around to this one, too! Same as I did with the 64 lot, a focus on my thoughts outside of Smash. then a brief inside Smash bit to compare and contrast. Fair warning, this one gets really... really long.

Peach is a fun character. She has a bright and memorable design, and despite playing the role of damsel in distress way too frequently, she's shown numerous times she can do plenty of stuff, whether it's her playable role in SMB2 and SM3DW, sneaking around Bowser's Castle in Paper Mario or being the main protagonist of Super Princess Peach. It'd be nice to see her in action a bit more often, since she still spends a whole lotta games just sitting around, which is a shame, but I do appreciate what she's accomplished. (disclaimer: I haven't played Odyssey yet so I don't know if she does some cool stuff in that game!)

In Smash, I think she has a cool moveset, but I've never got the hang of playing her. I kind of want to use Daisy in Ultimate, though, so I'll be practicing her playstyle in the future.

Bowser is a weird one, since his competence as a villain can vary wildly from game to game. I really like his design, as I think it's just the right blend of goofy and threatening, which perfectly complements his personality as a goofy, sometimes bumbling bad guy who's nonetheless ruthlessly ambitious. He's a great character in Bowser's Inside Story, and surprisingly scary in Galaxy (also dat battle theme! :love:

), though he's... less than stellar in some other games like Sunshine, where he's absent until right at the end and has a terrible voice. His variable quality as a character has sadly led to me never care too much for him, even though he really can be great at times.

In Smash, I always really disliked his old moveset. It was clunky and felt awkward, both to play, fight against and look at. Luckily, the massive overhauls he got in Smash 4 were a huge improvement, and he's much more fun to play in that game. He's one of my favourite characters to fight against and watch in Smash 4. I still don't play as him myself all that often, though.

They have almost no characterisation outside of a handful of funny animations, and I think Ice Climber is a terrible game, so I have basically no opinion on them outside of Smash.

In Smash, though, I actually quite like them. They're fun and unique, and even though I rarely play as them, I was legitimately sad to see them gone in 4. The roster felt somehow incomplete without them. I'm glad they're back for Ultimate.

Ocarina of Time is one of my favourite Zelda games, so I appreciate Sheik being a consistent representative for it. But I've never found Sheik herself all that interesting. I've always seen her more as a 'character' being played by Zelda, a 'character in a character', so to speak, so I've never thought about her much. She doesn't get much screentime, either, just showing up a few times to say some stuff about saving the world, then teaching you a song and then disappearing. I have to appreciate Zelda's guts in defying Ganondorf by brazenly appearing out in the open just wearing a disguise, though. A magical disguise, but just a disguise nonetheless. She is fun to play in Hyrule Warriors, though. She's got one of my favourite movesets there.

In Smash... eh. I've always thought her moveset felt a bit bland, and she's a bit TOO fast for me. I've never liked playing as her.

Zelda is a great character in a lot of Zelda games. She may have been just another damsel in distress in the first few, but really comes into her own starting with Ocarina of Time where, as I mentioned above, I have to respect her defiance of Ganondorf's reign of terror. She's particularly great in games like Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild, where she gets a more richly developed personality and character, as well as more fleshed out relationships with Link. Breath of the Wild Zelda is a particular favourite, feeling the most human of the bunch, with her struggles to come to grips with what she's supposed to do, and defiant preference for study and research over her duty as princess. I do think it's a shame her story is told almost entirely through flashbacks and we don't get to see it develop in real time, but that's just the nature of BotW's story and an unfortunate necessity. I also have a soft spot for Spirit Tracks Zelda, even though I don't like the game that much, since she's charming and finally has consistent screentime throughout the game and does a bunch of cool stuff. Like possessing suits of armour.

In Smash, I have always disliked Zelda's moveset... I have always thought it was clunky, entirely not fun to use and I never had any interest in playing her whatsoever... until now. Ultimate Zelda has charmed me entirely, and the huge sweeping changes and buffs to her moveset (Din's Fire no longer puts her in freefall... FINALLY) make me legitimately excited to play as her. And her new design is just... the most adorable Smash Bros human design ever made. Borrowing aspects from both her ALttP and ALBW designs, I almost consider Ultimate Zelda to be an original Zelda made just for this game. She looks clearly older than she did in ALttP and ALBW, maybe in her late teens, and she has a distinct feel and personality compared to other Zeldas. And that's fine in my book, since the Zelda series is always reinventing its characters. Hyrule Warriors did it, too, so I'm perfectly okay with Smash doing it too.

Dr. Mario is probably my favourite puzzle game, and is my go-to game when I just want to wind down. I love just playing a few rounds of Dr. Mario and just thinking about things. Other than that, he's literally just Mario, so the same stuff I said about him before applies. Only I like Doc a bit more because he really suits the doctor look.

In Smash, I prefer playing as Dr. Mario to Mario. I really like his moveset, and I prefer Doctor Tornado to FLUDD. I also just enjoy the sense of irony in beating people up with a doctor. I'm really excited for his new dunk Dair! Looks so fun to use!

Pichu is just ridiclously adorable, so I like it just for that. It's truly awful in the Pokemon games, with horrible stats all around, making it a massive pain to train, but I also kind of enjoy the challenge of it. The payoff is worth it, since Pikachu's surprisingly strong with a Light Ball, and beyond that, Alolan Raichu is a legitimately great Pokemon. Never cared much for regular Raichu, though... poor thing.

In Smash, I've always found Pichu hilarious to use thanks to its self-damage mechanic making it a liability to itself. It's such fun to win with Pichu, and while I can kind of see why some people are annoyed we have a "pointless" joke character back, I'm actually really happy to have Pichu back exactly because it's such a weird and jokey character. It's very much a just-for-fun kind of thing, and I'm okay with that.

Like I said with Fox, I'm not a fan of Star Fox, and I have no attachment to its characters at all. That said, I do enjoy Falco's cocky and self-assured personality, so I'd say I like him more than the other characters in the series. I also like his design. It has nice use of colours and I like birds. I still have no attachment to him whatsoever, though.

In Smash, it's the same story. No attachment, I don't play him. His multi-hitting aerials are quite cool, though.

Okay, so this might be a weird opinion, but I'll say it now: Marth is a tragically underrated character. Also Shadow Dragon is an underrated game. I've seen a lot of people dismiss Marth as just a generic RPG hero, and I would disagree. I actually think Shadow Dragon tells a really compelling story for Marth, particularly with the added Prologue chapters. You see an innocent young Marth have his kingdom suddenly ripped away from him, and the game actually explores his reactions to it and feelings about it. One of my very favourite lines in all of Fire Emblem is this:

""Surely"? Why do words of such conviction smack so much of uncertainty when spoken? Not surely, Jagen. Assuredly. Gra will pay for their acts. Today, though, allow me to wallow in this pain, to feel every awful twist of it. I never want to forget."

Marth actively WANTS to explore his own pain and sense of loss, so that he will never forget it, and so he will always hold those feelings all the closer to his heart when it comes time to take up arms and reclaim his home, his life. That, in my opinion, is a very interesting way of writing a character's response to losing their entire livelihood, especially when it's all they've really known until then. Now, I'm gonna skip ahead to the liberation of Altea. There's plenty I could talk about up until then, like how Marth is surprisingly witty and likeable, but I just want to point out another important bit of his character. Slight spoiler warning ahead (though Shadow Dragon's story is basic enough that I doubt it's a big deal):

Marth finally returns home, hoping to be welcomed back to some small fragment of his old life, only to find that his mother has been slain and his sister taken hostage. Understandably grief-stricken by this, he's tempted to just sit and wallow in his grief. But he can't, because he just liberated his kingdom. The game outright says this is the happiest day of his subjects' lives, and he addresses them grace and dignity, smiling and waving at them all. Yet, well...

"The great commander’s last victory of the day was commanding his tears not to flow."

Daaaamn. What a guy. What a champion. Held up by Shadow Dragon's surprisingly fantastic writing, Marth looks all the more like an actually complex and interesting hero. It's great stuff.

Suffice to say, I truly think Marth is much more interesting than a lot of people say he is, and is way more than just your typical RPG hero. If you've never played Shadow Dragon because you were put off by all the criticism it gets, I honestly recommend giving it a try. The gameplay may feel archaic and poorly balanced, and to be fair, it kind of is, but the writing's a real treat. And if you have played it before and didn't like it, try it again. Really pay close attention to the game's writing. The way the words flow, the way the world is built up and the way Marth is written. I'll admit that virtually every character aside from Marth, Minverva, Camus and Nyna are very bland and underutilised, but those four are really well done imo.

Unfortunately, I think Marth is a lot less interesting in New Mystery of the Emblem due to Kris upstaging him. Not to mention Marth's overly strong trust and affection for Kris, because Kris was the writers' pet. But I'd really rather not talk about NMotE's writing. It has great gameplay, for sure! But the writing is... a lot less great.

So, anyway, after that spiel, what do I think of him in Smash? Well... I like him. It might be surprising to hear after all the praise I had for him as a character, but as a fighter in Smash, I've never felt particularly strongly about him. I like him, sure, but I've never got into his playstyle. Maybe I'll check him out again in Ultimate, see if my feelings change. Especially now he has English voice acting! I'm a longtime fan of Yuri Lowenthall so I'm looking forward to how he plays Marth in Smash.

It's my boy! Like I mentioned earlier with Sheik, Ocarina of Time is one of my favourite Zeldas, and Majora's Mask is even more so. I consider YL to be a joint representative of both OoT and MM, so he means a lot to me. OoT and MM were major cornerstones of my childhood, and with Young Link being a young boy himself, he reminds me a lot of my own childhood. Young Link in particular is a character steeped in nostalgia for me, and for that, I'm stoked for his re-inclusion to Smash. It really is like my childhood is coming back to visit me in this game. I didn't think about it back when he was in Melee, since I was still a child then, but now that I'm an adult, I'm ready for the blast to the past YL is bringing to the table in Ultimate.

Needless to say, I fully plan to use YL in Ultimate. It's not just the nostalgia fuel, either; like I mentioned with Link, I do like Link's moveset, but regular Link feels oddly slow and clunky to me. Young Link is smaller and more agile, so I'll be using him as my main Link. As much as I like Toon Link, he feels too floaty for me, but I'll talk more about that in the Brawl writeups. But yes, I'm very, very excited to play as the young boy in Ultimate.

It's my main GAN, Ganondorf! Sorry, that was a terrible joke. Anyway, Ganondorf is a great villain, probably one of Nintendo's best. He's consistently threatening, and whether it's Gerudo Ganondorf or beast Ganon, Nintendo has never been afraid to show us exactly what he can do if he's left unchecked. From ALttP's Dark World, to OoT's post-timeskip wasteland of a Castle Town, to BotW's outright post-apocalyptic Hyrule, it's made abundantly clear that Ganondorf is a genuine and very serious threat. But I think Wind Waker is where he really shines. Not only do you see the most extreme result of his evil, with the Goddesses flooding Hyrule just to try and seal Ganondorf away forever, he reveals that he actually has surprisingly sympathetic and human motivations for going down the path he did. Seemingly led to despair due to the Gerudo's ostracisation from the rest of society and poor living conditions, it seems like he originally only wanted to better his peoples' lot in life, then became corrupted by anger, jealousy and power somewhere down the line. That doesn't excuse what he's done by any means, of course, but it's a much, much more interesting story than "he's evil because the writers said so". He also has a great design, making really good use of dark, threatening colours combined with an absolutely gargauntuan stature. He always carries himself with a certain poise and dignity, which really sells his position at the King of Evil. He's a very well-realised villain in a lot of ways.

In Smash... *sigh* where do I even begin? I'll say it upfront: I don't like Falcondorf. I really don't. I have no issue with some of his moves; his Ftilt is perfectly okay because 1: The Sparta Kick is just plain awesome and 2: He actually does the same kick in Twilight Princess, and Flame Choke is fine because it's near identical to what to used to attack the Sages in Twilight Princess. But a lot of his moves just... don't work. His Up tilt is stupidly slow, his neutral B being a knockoff of Falcon Punch and not, you know, Dead Man's Volley is outrageous and Wizard's Foot just feels uninspired. His extreme slowness was also a big factor in me not liking him, because he really isn't all the slow in Zelda. Plus the silly, huffy, 'old man' run. Ultimate is a significant improvement for sure, with his greatly increased speed, better looking run cycle, and of course, his sword smash attacks. I still just wish he had Dead Man's Volley instead of Warlock Punch, though. Is it really a true Ganon fight without Laser Tennis?

Mewtwo is definitely one of my favourite Gen 1 Pokemon. Its insane power is so satisfying to use, and its design is very simple but effective. It's also a surprisingly good character in the movies due to its struggle with its violent nature and gradually becoming more compassionate. I can't really go into detail there, because to be honest, I haven't watched anything to do with the anime, including Mewtwo's movies, since I was a kid. But anyway, Mewtwo's a great Pokemon a deserves the respect and popularity he gets.

In Smash, I really didn't like him in Melee, but he's a lot better in Smash 4. His regular moveset is awesome, but I've never been a fan of his specials. Shadow Ball is great, but I don't really like using any of his other specials, and that puts me off using him. Which is a shame because his normals and aerials really are great.

Another controversial opinion: Binding Blade is one of the best Fire Emblem games and Roy is a good character. He's a bad unit in gameplay for sure, but the thing is... that's kind of the point. Roy isn't a master swordsman or muscleman, he's a 15-year old boy who specialises in academics and tactics. His talents don't lie in his combat skills, they lie in his ability to use his brain. He's kindhearted and thoughtful, and his focus is on leading his troops to victory as their commander rather than being the mighty warrior at the forefront. And I think that's okay. Even his supports and role in the story make frequent references to him as the commander and tactician, so it's clear that was the intent. I know a lot of people find it annoying to baby him because he is a bit rubbish in combat, and I can't blame them, but I kind of like the challenge of protecting your main Lord and keeping them out of harm's way, just sending them in to pick off stragglers or weaken enemies to get him EXP as opposed to being able to recklessly throw other Lords into the fray that's in a lot of other games. Maybe that's just me, though.

In Smash, I've always enjoyed Roy. He was my main back in Melee, and I used him a bit in Smash 4 as well. Given that he's a highly offense-based and strong fighter in Smash, you might think I dislike how he's portrayed in Smash, but due to the fact he looks markedly older in Smash 4, I like to think of Smash Bros Roy as a more matured and experienced Roy than he appears as in Binding Blade. I think of Smash 4 Roy as how he is a few years after the conclusion to his story, far stronger and more experienced in battle than he was at the start of the game.

It's... kind of hard to have an opinion on Mr. G&W outside of Smash, considering he's essentially a Smash original. He's really more of an amalgamation of concepts rather than a set-in-stone character. Plus, the only Game & Watch game I've ever played was Helmet, and while it was kinda fun, it's too basic to have a strong opinion on.

In Smash, G&W is honestly one of my favourite fighters. He stands out wonderfully from the rest of the cast with his 2D design and wonderfully silly animations. He has a fun moveset, and it's remarkable how much personality they managed to give to a character who isn't even really a character per se. I love what they've done with his animations in Ultimate and I can't wait to see all of them in action.

Wow, that got more analytic than I intended it to, especially Marth! And I don't see that changing for the Brawl set, considering I like a whole lot of characters there and it includes my absolute favourite Smash character. But I think I'll take a break before I do them!

Zinith · Jul 28, 2018

Apollo500 said:
Getting around to this one, too! Same as I did with the 64 lot, a focus on my thoughts outside of Smash. then a brief inside Smash bit to compare and contrast. Fair warning, this one gets really... really long.

Peach is a fun character. She has a bright and memorable design, and despite playing the role of damsel in distress way too frequently, she's shown numerous times she can do plenty of stuff, whether it's her playable role in SMB2 and SM3DW, sneaking around Bowser's Castle in Paper Mario or being the main protagonist of Super Princess Peach. It'd be nice to see her in action a bit more often, since she still spends a whole lotta games just sitting around, which is a shame, but I do appreciate what she's accomplished. (disclaimer: I haven't played Odyssey yet so I don't know if she does some cool stuff in that game!)

In Smash, I think she has a cool moveset, but I've never got the hang of playing her. I kind of want to use Daisy in Ultimate, though, so I'll be practicing her playstyle in the future.

Bowser is a weird one, since his competence as a villain can vary wildly from game to game. I really like his design, as I think it's just the right blend of goofy and threatening, which perfectly complements his personality as a goofy, sometimes bumbling bad guy who's nonetheless ruthlessly ambitious. He's a great character in Bowser's Inside Story, and surprisingly scary in Galaxy (also dat battle theme! ), though he's... less than stellar in some other games like Sunshine, where he's absent until right at the end and has a terrible voice. His variable quality as a character has sadly led to me never care too much for him, even though he really can be great at times.

In Smash, I always really disliked his old moveset. It was clunky and felt awkward, both to play, fight against and look at. Luckily, the massive overhauls he got in Smash 4 were a huge improvement, and he's much more fun to play in that game. He's one of my favourite characters to fight against and watch in Smash 4. I still don't play as him myself all that often, though.

They have almost no characterisation outside of a handful of funny animations, and I think Ice Climber is a terrible game, so I have basically no opinion on them outside of Smash.

In Smash, though, I actually quite like them. They're fun and unique, and even though I rarely play as them, I was legitimately sad to see them gone in 4. The roster felt somehow incomplete without them. I'm glad they're back for Ultimate.

Ocarina of Time is one of my favourite Zelda games, so I appreciate Sheik being a consistent representative for it. But I've never found Sheik herself all that interesting. I've always seen her more as a 'character' being played by Zelda, a 'character in a character', so to speak, so I've never thought about her much. She doesn't get much screentime, either, just showing up a few times to say some stuff about saving the world, then teaching you a song and then disappearing. I have to appreciate Zelda's guts in defying Ganondorf by brazenly appearing out in the open just wearing a disguise, though. A magical disguise, but just a disguise nonetheless. She is fun to play in Hyrule Warriors, though. She's got one of my favourite movesets there.

In Smash... eh. I've always thought her moveset felt a bit bland, and she's a bit TOO fast for me. I've never liked playing as her.

Zelda is a great character in a lot of Zelda games. She may have been just another damsel in distress in the first few, but really comes into her own starting with Ocarina of Time where, as I mentioned above, I have to respect her defiance of Ganondorf's reign of terror. She's particularly great in games like Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild, where she gets a more richly developed personality and character, as well as more fleshed out relationships with Link. Breath of the Wild Zelda is a particular favourite, feeling the most human of the bunch, with her struggles to come to grips with what she's supposed to do, and defiant preference for study and research over her duty as princess. I do think it's a shame her story is told almost entirely through flashbacks and we don't get to see it develop in real time, but that's just the nature of BotW's story and an unfortunate necessity. I also have a soft spot for Spirit Tracks Zelda, even though I don't like the game that much, since she's charming and finally has consistent screentime throughout the game and does a bunch of cool stuff. Like possessing suits of armour.

In Smash, I have always disliked Zelda's moveset... I have always thought it was clunky, entirely not fun to use and I never had any interest in playing her whatsoever... until now. Ultimate Zelda has charmed me entirely, and the huge sweeping changes and buffs to her moveset (Din's Fire no longer puts her in freefall... FINALLY) make me legitimately excited to play as her. And her new design is just... the most adorable Smash Bros human design ever made. Borrowing aspects from both her ALttP and ALBW designs, I almost consider Ultimate Zelda to be an original Zelda made just for this game. She looks clearly older than she did in ALttP and ALBW, maybe in her late teens, and she has a distinct feel and personality compared to other Zeldas. And that's fine in my book, since the Zelda series is always reinventing its characters. Hyrule Warriors did it, too, so I'm perfectly okay with Smash doing it too.

Dr. Mario is probably my favourite puzzle game, and is my go-to game when I just want to wind down. I love just playing a few rounds of Dr. Mario and just thinking about things. Other than that, he's literally just Mario, so the same stuff I said about him before applies. Only I like Doc a bit more because he really suits the doctor look.

In Smash, I prefer playing as Dr. Mario to Mario. I really like his moveset, and I prefer Doctor Tornado to FLUDD. I also just enjoy the sense of irony in beating people up with a doctor. I'm really excited for his new dunk Dair! Looks so fun to use!

Pichu is just ridiclously adorable, so I like it just for that. It's truly awful in the Pokemon games, with horrible stats all around, making it a massive pain to train, but I also kind of enjoy the challenge of it. The payoff is worth it, since Pikachu's surprisingly strong with a Light Ball, and beyond that, Alolan Raichu is a legitimately great Pokemon. Never cared much for regular Raichu, though... poor thing.

In Smash, I've always found Pichu hilarious to use thanks to its self-damage mechanic making it a liability to itself. It's such fun to win with Pichu, and while I can kind of see why some people are annoyed we have a "pointless" joke character back, I'm actually really happy to have Pichu back exactly because it's such a weird and jokey character. It's very much a just-for-fun kind of thing, and I'm okay with that.

Like I said with Fox, I'm not a fan of Star Fox, and I have no attachment to its characters at all. That said, I do enjoy Falco's cocky and self-assured personality, so I'd say I like him more than the other characters in the series. I also like his design. It has nice use of colours and I like birds. I still have no attachment to him whatsoever, though.

In Smash, it's the same story. No attachment, I don't play him. His multi-hitting aerials are quite cool, though.

Okay, so this might be a weird opinion, but I'll say it now: Marth is a tragically underrated character. Also Shadow Dragon is an underrated game. I've seen a lot of people dismiss Marth as just a generic RPG hero, and I would disagree. I actually think Shadow Dragon tells a really compelling story for Marth, particularly with the added Prologue chapters. You see an innocent young Marth have his kingdom suddenly ripped away from him, and the game actually explores his reactions to it and feelings about it. One of my very favourite lines in all of Fire Emblem is this:

""Surely"? Why do words of such conviction smack so much of uncertainty when spoken? Not surely, Jagen. Assuredly. Gra will pay for their acts. Today, though, allow me to wallow in this pain, to feel every awful twist of it. I never want to forget."

Marth actively WANTS to explore his own pain and sense of loss, so that he will never forget it, and so he will always hold those feelings all the closer to his heart when it comes time to take up arms and reclaim his home, his life. That, in my opinion, is a very interesting way of writing a character's response to losing their entire livelihood, especially when it's all they've really known until then. Now, I'm gonna skip ahead to the liberation of Altea. There's plenty I could talk about up until then, like how Marth is surprisingly witty and likeable, but I just want to point out another important bit of his character. Slight spoiler warning ahead (though Shadow Dragon's story is basic enough that I doubt it's a big deal):

Marth finally returns home, hoping to be welcomed back to some small fragment of his old life, only to find that his mother has been slain and his sister taken hostage. Understandably grief-stricken by this, he's tempted to just sit and wallow in his grief. But he can't, because he just liberated his kingdom. The game outright says this is the happiest day of his subjects' lives, and he addresses them grace and dignity, smiling and waving at them all. Yet, well...

"The great commander’s last victory of the day was commanding his tears not to flow."

Daaaamn. What a guy. What a champion. Held up by Shadow Dragon's surprisingly fantastic writing, Marth looks all the more like an actually complex and interesting hero. It's great stuff.

Suffice to say, I truly think Marth is much more interesting than a lot of people say he is, and is way more than just your typical RPG hero. If you've never played Shadow Dragon because you were put off by all the criticism it gets, I honestly recommend giving it a try. The gameplay may feel archaic and poorly balanced, and to be fair, it kind of is, but the writing's a real treat. And if you have played it before and didn't like it, try it again. Really pay close attention to the game's writing. The way the words flow, the way the world is built up and the way Marth is written. I'll admit that virtually every character aside from Marth, Minverva, Camus and Nyna are very bland and underutilised, but those four are really well done imo.

Unfortunately, I think Marth is a lot less interesting in New Mystery of the Emblem due to Kris upstaging him. Not to mention Marth's overly strong trust and affection for Kris, because Kris was the writers' pet. But I'd really rather not talk about NMotE's writing. It has great gameplay, for sure! But the writing is... a lot less great.

So, anyway, after that spiel, what do I think of him in Smash? Well... I like him. It might be surprising to hear after all the praise I had for him as a character, but as a fighter in Smash, I've never felt particularly strongly about him. I like him, sure, but I've never got into his playstyle. Maybe I'll check him out again in Ultimate, see if my feelings change. Especially now he has English voice acting! I'm a longtime fan of Yuri Lowenthall so I'm looking forward to how he plays Marth in Smash.

It's my boy! Like I mentioned earlier with Sheik, Ocarina of Time is one of my favourite Zeldas, and Majora's Mask is even more so. I consider YL to be a joint representative of both OoT and MM, so he means a lot to me. OoT and MM were major cornerstones of my childhood, and with Young Link being a young boy himself, he reminds me a lot of my own childhood. Young Link in particular is a character steeped in nostalgia for me, and for that, I'm stoked for his re-inclusion to Smash. It really is like my childhood is coming back to visit me in this game. I didn't think about it back when he was in Melee, since I was still a child then, but now that I'm an adult, I'm ready for the blast to the past YL is bringing to the table in Ultimate.

Needless to say, I fully plan to use YL in Ultimate. It's not just the nostalgia fuel, either; like I mentioned with Link, I do like Link's moveset, but regular Link feels oddly slow and clunky to me. Young Link is smaller and more agile, so I'll be using him as my main Link. As much as I like Toon Link, he feels too floaty for me, but I'll talk more about that in the Brawl writeups. But yes, I'm very, very excited to play as the young boy in Ultimate.

It's my main GAN, Ganondorf! Sorry, that was a terrible joke. Anyway, Ganondorf is a great villain, probably one of Nintendo's best. He's consistently threatening, and whether it's Gerudo Ganondorf or beast Ganon, Nintendo has never been afraid to show us exactly what he can do if he's left unchecked. From ALttP's Dark World, to OoT's post-timeskip wasteland of a Castle Town, to BotW's outright post-apocalyptic Hyrule, it's made abundantly clear that Ganondorf is a genuine and very serious threat. But I think Wind Waker is where he really shines. Not only do you see the most extreme result of his evil, with the Goddesses flooding Hyrule just to try and seal Ganondorf away forever, he reveals that he actually has surprisingly sympathetic and human motivations for going down the path he did. Seemingly led to despair due to the Gerudo's ostracisation from the rest of society and poor living conditions, it seems like he originally only wanted to better his peoples' lot in life, then became corrupted by anger, jealousy and power somewhere down the line. That doesn't excuse what he's done by any means, of course, but it's a much, much more interesting story than "he's evil because the writers said so". He also has a great design, making really good use of dark, threatening colours combined with an absolutely gargauntuan stature. He always carries himself with a certain poise and dignity, which really sells his position at the King of Evil. He's a very well-realised villain in a lot of ways.

In Smash... *sigh* where do I even begin? I'll say it upfront: I don't like Falcondorf. I really don't. I have no issue with some of his moves; his Ftilt is perfectly okay because 1: The Sparta Kick is just plain awesome and 2: He actually does the same kick in Twilight Princess, and Flame Choke is fine because it's near identical to what to used to attack the Sages in Twilight Princess. But a lot of his moves just... don't work. His Up tilt is stupidly slow, his neutral B being a knockoff of Falcon Punch and not, you know, Dead Man's Volley is outrageous and Wizard's Foot just feels uninspired. His extreme slowness was also a big factor in me not liking him, because he really isn't all the slow in Zelda. Plus the silly, huffy, 'old man' run. Ultimate is a significant improvement for sure, with his greatly increased speed, better looking run cycle, and of course, his sword smash attacks. I still just wish he had Dead Man's Volley instead of Warlock Punch, though. Is it really a true Ganon fight without Laser Tennis?

Mewtwo is definitely one of my favourite Gen 1 Pokemon. Its insane power is so satisfying to use, and its design is very simple but effective. It's also a surprisingly good character in the movies due to its struggle with its violent nature and gradually becoming more compassionate. I can't really go into detail there, because to be honest, I haven't watched anything to do with the anime, including Mewtwo's movies, since I was a kid. But anyway, Mewtwo's a great Pokemon a deserves the respect and popularity he gets.

In Smash, I really didn't like him in Melee, but he's a lot better in Smash 4. His regular moveset is awesome, but I've never been a fan of his specials. Shadow Ball is great, but I don't really like using any of his other specials, and that puts me off using him. Which is a shame because his normals and aerials really are great.

Another controversial opinion: Binding Blade is one of the best Fire Emblem games and Roy is a good character. He's a bad unit in gameplay for sure, but the thing is... that's kind of the point. Roy isn't a master swordsman or muscleman, he's a 15-year old boy who specialises in academics and tactics. His talents don't lie in his combat skills, they lie in his ability to use his brain. He's kindhearted and thoughtful, and his focus is on leading his troops to victory as their commander rather than being the mighty warrior at the forefront. And I think that's okay. Even his supports and role in the story make frequent references to him as the commander and tactician, so it's clear that was the intent. I know a lot of people find it annoying to baby him because he is a bit rubbish in combat, and I can't blame them, but I kind of like the challenge of protecting your main Lord and keeping them out of harm's way, just sending them in to pick off stragglers or weaken enemies to get him EXP as opposed to being able to recklessly throw other Lords into the fray that's in a lot of other games. Maybe that's just me, though.

In Smash, I've always enjoyed Roy. He was my main back in Melee, and I used him a bit in Smash 4 as well. Given that he's a highly offense-based and strong fighter in Smash, you might think I dislike how he's portrayed in Smash, but due to the fact he looks markedly older in Smash 4, I like to think of Smash Bros Roy as a more matured and experienced Roy than he appears as in Binding Blade. I think of Smash 4 Roy as how he is a few years after the conclusion to his story, far stronger and more experienced in battle than he was at the start of the game.

It's... kind of hard to have an opinion on Mr. G&W outside of Smash, considering he's essentially a Smash original. He's really more of an amalgamation of concepts rather than a set-in-stone character. Plus, the only Game & Watch game I've ever played was Helmet, and while it was kinda fun, it's too basic to have a strong opinion on.

In Smash, G&W is honestly one of my favourite fighters. He stands out wonderfully from the rest of the cast with his 2D design and wonderfully silly animations. He has a fun moveset, and it's remarkable how much personality they managed to give to a character who isn't even really a character per se. I love what they've done with his animations in Ultimate and I can't wait to see all of them in action.

Wow, that got more analytic than I intended it to, especially Marth! And I don't see that changing for the Brawl set, considering I like a whole lot of characters there and it includes my absolute favourite Smash character. But I think I'll take a break before I do them!

I'm gonna come clean with ya. Whenever I hear people praise Bowser's reworked moveset in Smash 4 and not realize Yoshi went through the exact same rework, I get sad.

Apollo500 · Jul 28, 2018

Zinith said:
I'm gonna come clean with ya. Whenever I hear people praise Bowser's reworked moveset in Smash 4 and not realize Yoshi went through the exact same rework, I get sad.

It's unfortunate, but I might like Yoshi more if I liked his recovery. Maybe I'll give him another go in Ultimate and see how I feel.

Zinith · Jul 28, 2018

Apollo500 said:
It's unfortunate, but I might like Yoshi more if I liked his recovery. Maybe I'll give him another go in Ultimate and see how I feel.

If his recovery is your only hang-up with the character, then I don't see how that'll change this time around. I will say that his recovery isn't as crappy as people have claimed it to be considering the tools he DOES have other than his Up B

And honestly if anything is holding Yoshi back, it's his grabs not his recovery

Apollo500 · Jul 28, 2018

Zinith said:
If his recovery is your only hang-up with the character, then I don't see how that'll change this time around. I will say that his recovery isn't as crappy as people have claimed it to be considering the tools he DOES have other than his Up B

And honestly if anything is holding Yoshi back, it's his grabs not his recovery

It isn't really so much that I find his recovery bad, more that I've never been good at getting to grips with nonstandard recoveries, i.e. characters whose Up B doesn't just send them upwards. I think I remember Yoshi's Up B now giving him a slight vertical boost in the air in Smash 4, which is nice. But I appreciate your passion for the character. I think it's nice when people have something they're really, unwaveringly passionate about.

But yeah, tether grabs feel weird... that's the one thing about Young Link I'm not looking forward to, haha.

What's your opinion of the Melee 14 OUTSIDE of Smash? (Part 2)

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