what's wrong with cloned movesets?

[DynamiteSpoony]

This was an ignorant statement and you know it. While clones dont take as much TIME to create as an original character, they do in fact take as much space and room in the game to implement. And the only things that dont take as much time to implement for them are move animations. With Subspace Emissary and such, any character implemented needs to have their own path or involvement with the story etc...

And Im sure I wasnt the only one who didnt like seeing Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link on Melee's roster. It just looked messy.

^QFT

And again, I say with ATs and bosses, clones will more or less be a thing of the past. It eliminates throwaway characters, and are much easier to program.

And with that, I leave this thread. 'Night, y'all.

 

[Ghost07]

This was an ignorant statement and you know it. While clones dont take as much TIME to create as an original character, they do in fact take as much space and room in the game to implement. And the only things that dont take as much time to implement for them are move animations. With Subspace Emissary and such, any character implemented needs to have their own path or involvement with the story etc...

And Im sure I wasnt the only one who didnt like seeing Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link on Melee's roster. It just looked messy.

Sorry but your statement is ignorant. There are pleny of people who like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link. Clones don't require as much work as originals but of course they take some. Read your statements before you post them.

Yeah we want every character to have an oringinal moveset but God is not creating this game. Show me a fighting game that has no clones/or coppied moveset.

 

[DynamiteSpoony]

Sorry but your statement is ignorant. There are pleny of people who like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link. Clones don't require as much work as originals but of course they take some. Read your statements before you post them.

Yeah we want every character to have an oringinal moveset but God is not creating this game. Show me a fighting game that has no clones/or coppied moveset.

Hrm. I seem to have time for one more post.

Isn't it so easily to dismiss someone's arguments as "ignorant"?

Clones DO take work and they DO take away time that could be spent developing original movesets. That's all there is to it.

And it's not even like they're making original movesets for everyone anyway. Almost all the veterans have their same moves from Melee anyway, and if they only add a few more characters from the current newcomers, it won't be too much trouble.

 

[El_Duderino]

Ganondorf? No. Falco? Yes. With all that time they spend not working on Falco, they could give Ganondorf an awesome moveset with his sword.

Ok. So the model makers, sound technicians, texture artists and God knows who else take two weeks off so they don't have to do Falco. And this gives the animators more time to do Ganondorf's moveset and add his sword...how? Oh wait, all those other guys could cram themselves into the animators' office and offer helpful advice, right? That oughtta cut down on the time needed for Ganondorf's wicked awesome sword moveset.

 

[Ghost07]

Hrm. I seem to have time for one more post.

Isn't it so easily to dismiss someone's arguments as "ignorant"?

Clones DO take work and they DO take away time that could be spent developing original movesets. That's all there is to it.

And it's not even like they're making original movesets for everyone anyway. Almost all the veterans have their same moves from Melee anyway, and if they only add a few more characters from the current newcomers, it won't be too much trouble.

Of course they take work, its just alot easier to make a clone. When did I ever say thay where making original movesets for veterans, we're talking about clones.

Again read your post before you post them because your reply is very ignorant.

 

[Chepe]

Sorry but your statement is ignorant. There are pleny of people who like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link. Clones don't require as much work as originals but of course they take some. Read your statements before you post them.

Yeah we want every character to have an oringinal moveset but God is not creating this game. Show me a fighting game that has no clones/or coppied moveset.

Never in my post did I say that no one liked the clones, I only said that I was confident I wasnt the only one who didnt. And "Clones don't require as much work as originals but of course they take some" had nothing to do with anything I said. I merely said that with space issues, clones take up as much room on the disk than their counterparts. Nothing about work done to create them, and I actually agree with that statement you made...

Follow your own advice about reading...

 

[Ghost07]

Never in my post did I say that no one liked the clones, I only said that I was confident I wasnt the only one who didnt. And "Clones don't require as much work as originals but of course they take some" had nothing to do with anything I said. I merely said that with space issues, clones take up as much room on the disk than their counterparts. Nothing about work done to create them, and I actually agree with that statement you made...

Follow your own advice about reading...

Did I say you said that no one likes clones. Please READ! I said They're are people
who like them. Come'on space issues, I don't think they have a problem with that
if they can make crappy items like team healer.

 

[Chepe]

Did I say you said that no one likes clones. Please READ! I said They're are people
who like them. Come'on space issues, I don't think they have a problem with that
if they can make crappy items like team healer.

Looks like we were both implying stuff about the other in our posts without realizing it then...

Perhaps space issue isnt a matter, but we cant know that for sure. I guess this wont get us anywhere. For my final word, if clones can be as different from their counterpart as Ganondorf and Falco, I support them. If we would get filler crap like Young Link or Pichu or Dr. Mario who have pretty much exactly the same animations and similar stats though, I dont want them. So there.

 

[Ghost07]

Looks like we were both implying stuff about the other in our posts without realizing it then...

Perhaps space issue isnt a matter, but we cant know that for sure. I guess this wont get us anywhere. For my final word, if clones can be as different from their counterpart as Ganondorf and Falco, I support them. If we would get filler crap like Young Link or Pichu or Dr. Mario who have pretty much exactly the same animations and similar stats though, I dont want them. So there.

Now thats a good statement. I respect that at least you give good reasons instead of saying clones suck and are a waist. I agree if theres gonna be clones. I hope they're like Falco and Ganondorf.

 

[Mario77]

Fox and Falco being clones is fine with me, they are praticaly the same person, both have blasters, and have the same gear, so I'd expect them to have similar moves... Mario and Dr Mario are the same person... so of course they are going to have the same moves. I just get realy annoyd how they made Ganondorf and Captain Falcon almost the same, but they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Ganondorf and Captain Falcon should have completely different moves...

 

[antimatter]

i dont like clones for the reason that i prefer completely unique movesets.

 

[Chiastic]

Fox and Falco being clones is fine with me, they are praticaly the same person, both have blasters, and have the same gear, so I'd expect them to have similar moves... Mario and Dr Mario are the same person... so of course they are going to have the same moves. I just get realy annoyd how they made Ganondorf and Captain Falcon almost the same, but they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Ganondorf and Captain Falcon should have completely different moves...

i totally agree with this dude... cept for dr. mario, that clone sucks. actually the only clones i really enjoyed in melee were Ganondorf and Falco, and maybe roy.
I agree Ganondorf should have is own moveset. but i would love to get a character that fights like melee ganondorf in brawl. that slow/strong/heavy version of cpt falcon was awesome. i guess black shadow would be the man for that moveset.
once again. i do preffer getting an all-new-original moveset for any character over a clone, but i dont mind getting a few clones since you might actually like the clone more than the original (like myself).

 

[shinhed-echi]

How are Fox and Falco the same person? That's like saying Sonic and Knuckles are the same, since they both curl up into balls...

Seriously, Falco now has a rocket launcher esque thing... The shine will probably be back, but I doubt they'll give him back that annoying laser of his.

To me, the order of clone wtfness goes like this..

1.- C.f & Ganondorf... wth? A racer and a legendary evil warlock share the same moves?

2.- Marth & Roy ... two swordsmen from two different eras, different sword styles, fight the same way...

3.- Fox & Falco... yes, they're different people, one's a fox, the other's a bird. At least they went to the same academy... but Falco now plays a different style as in SF Assault.

4.- Pikachu & Puchu... Ok, so they're the same species, it's kinda hard to give them new moves..

5.- Link & Y.Link... come on, give the guy a break! He just pulled the master sword out of the stone and you expect him to have endured 7 years of training? It's natural his fighting style hasn't changed at all!

 

[Chiastic]

hahah "wtfness", gotta love that word.
actually if falco is gonna have a rocket launcher instead of a blaster, that would own, its the smash kicks and a few special attacks that should remain. just my opinion though. i wont go all drama-queen if we get an all new falco, i just believe we're going to get a clone, and i love it....... and i do believe we will get a few drama queens around the web once we get a cloned falco in brawl.

 

[shinhed-echi]

^

All I really ask is, they take off that Spike. Really, that's all I ask. They can keep those spammy lasers, and shine, and smash attacks... But the Spike is simply cheap!

I mean, how can any character recover faster from an aerial down A coming from a half-ton weighting warlock (Armor included), than a 100 pound bird? It makes no sense! XD

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

Clones only existed because of a limited budget and timespan. That won't be a problem with Brawl, so don't expect clones.

 

[El_Duderino]

Clones only existed because of a limited budget and timespan. That won't be a problem with Brawl, so don't expect clones.

That's a mighty big assumption you've got going there. Every game ever made has those problems.

 

[DemonicDragon]

Clones suck because they are reptetive and waste character slots. Honestly,who want to unlock character only find that character is but a clone of another, its so boring. Although, I do support heavily modified clones such as Luigi, who isn't really a clone at all.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

That's a mighty big assumption you've got going there. Every game ever made has those problems.

They've had years to make it, it's not a problem with Brawl

 

[Storm Eagle]

For all the Young Links and Dr. Marios, there is going to be at least one Ganondorf, and that alone will be worth it.

QFT! And don't forget: There are some characters who actually would work pretty well as clones! Felix could be a clone of Isaac and Black Shadow could be a clone of Captain Falcon.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

But we don't need them, so I expect all characters to be unique.

 

[brawl_maniac]

i'm not against clones,it's just that they are boring to use.

Plus,Sakurai said that no clones will be put into the game.

 

[Zenigame]

Plus,Sakurai said that no clones will be put into the game.

Lies. Link plz.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Lies. Link plz.

Maybe there is no link, but I sure don't see any clones or hint at them in Brawl, so it's safe to assume that all characters will have a unique moveset.

 

[Big-Cat]

Maybe there is no link, but I sure don't see any clones or hint at them in Brawl, so it's safe to assume that all characters will have a unique moveset.

And we don't see a hint about them not being in Brawl either. Face it, we have no idea if clones are in or not. For all we know, part of the three month delay involved adding characters like Kumatora, Wolf, and Dark Samus as playable clones. Also, maybe Sakurai likes clones.

 

[Zenigame]

Maybe there is no link, but I sure don't see any clones or hint at them in Brawl, so it's safe to assume that all characters will have a unique moveset.

That is a fairly large assumption to make, and is the opposite of safe. Almost every fighting game every made has had clones, and they are nearly always unlockable. And since Sakurai seems to only be showing starting chars + 3rd party chars.....

 

[El_Duderino]

They've had years to make it, it's not a problem with Brawl

Having had years to make Brawl does not lead to Brawl not having a limited budget or time span.

This is just going in a huge circle. There's three arguments that clone opponents keep bandying about, over and over and over again, and no matter how many times they're debunked they just get repeated without any acknowledgment of the evidence to the contrary.

"Brawl has had a lot of development time" - Clearly it was not enough, because it was delayed.

"Sakurai said he didn't like clones" - He did not. There's a whole thread over in General about that.

"I don't like clones" - That's not a reason.

It's been like this, in a giant circle, for this entire thread. And I'm done. If you want to believe there will be no clones in the final game, fine. But I reserve the right to laugh like a hyena if/when we find out there are.

 

[courte]

unlike in other fighting games, the characters in Smash aren't defined or given life via their moves are technique. They are all given birth in their ow franchises, each character with a unique personality. The moves they use in smash is somewhat of a homage to everything about that character. Their techniques are based off of their history. Movements sprites made in past games, such as Link's D-Air=Zelda 2, Marth's Shieldbreaker=Crit, Samus Running Attack=Speedbooster/Shinespark. So for a few of these chars, Doctor Mario for instance, to simply come along, change most of the moves, for better or worse is all a matter of opinion and playstyle, when all they really ever did was...

Pop. Pills.

It doesn't feel like proper homage to said character...(i can see a fox running faster than a falcon, and a bird jumping higher than a fox, but the up+B??!))

at least that's just my two cents

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Having had years to make Brawl does not lead to Brawl not having a limited budget or time span.

This is just going in a huge circle. There's three arguments that clone opponents keep bandying about, over and over and over again, and no matter how many times they're debunked they just get repeated without any acknowledgment of the evidence to the contrary.

"Brawl has had a lot of development time" - Clearly it was not enough, because it was delayed.

"Sakurai said he didn't like clones" - He did not. There's a whole thread over in General about that.

"I don't like clones" - That's not a reason.

It's been like this, in a giant circle, for this entire thread. And I'm done. If you want to believe there will be no clones in the final game, fine. But I reserve the right to laugh like a hyena if/when we find out there are.

Ever figured the delay was because of Galaxy, problems with Wi-Fi or something else. Your only assuming they didn't have enough time, b/c they delayed it? The delay could be b/c of many different things and not just time.

 

[Zenigame]

Ever figured the delay was because of Galaxy, problems with Wi-Fi or something else. Your only assuming they didn't have enough time, b/c they delayed it? The delay could be b/c of many different things and not just time.

Now you are just joking, right? A delay for something other than working on the game (aka, time)?

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Now you are just joking, right? A delay for something other than working on the game (aka, time)?

It can happen. Would you want to clash Brawl with another huge Nintendo title(Galaxy)? Or delay it and maybe work on Wi-FI problems and finally add some finishing touchs. Maybe time is the reason, but I'm sure after having years of development, that that will have anything to do with clones

 

[StarshipGroove]

Sakurai did tell Famitsu, in an interview, that he was still adding characters. If he doesn't meet his character expectations even after the delay, he will probably resort to clones.
And what he said was that he found creating clones to be "lazy".

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

And we don't see a hint about them not being in Brawl either. Face it, we have no idea if clones are in or not. For all we know, part of the three month delay involved adding characters like Kumatora, Wolf, and Dark Samus as playable clones. Also, maybe Sakurai likes clones.

And who exactly would Dark Samus be a clone of?

 

[Jackal478]

Why does it even matter?!

Sakurai said that there will not be clones in Brawl.

Find something else to complain about.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Sakurai did tell Famitsu, in an interview, that he was still adding characters. If he doesn't meet his character expectations even after the delay, he will probably resort to clones.
And what he said was that he found creating clones to be "lazy".

When was this interview?

 

[Zenigame]

Why does it even matter?!

Sakurai said that there will not be clones in Brawl.

Find something else to complain about.

Lies. Link plz.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Are you insisting that there should be clones?

 

[courte]

Main reasons for delay
-Wi-Fi
-Subspace Awesomeary

Things to do in your spare time if you're not working on the wi-fi
-Making new chars and breaking them
-Subspace Awesomeary=10 hours?!=1000's or hours of work

 

[Big-Cat]

Are you insisting that there should be clones?

I thought this was obvious since he/she started posting in here.

And who exactly would Dark Samus be a clone of?

Samus but I know Dark Samus can easily have her own unique moveset.

 

[Zenigame]

I'm not insisting on anything, I realize that what I write here is meaningless, as it has no affect on the outcome. I'd like there to be clones, as clones add in characters who otherwise wouldn't be in, and give players different playstyles to try out.

And, as much as people like to think they do, clones do not take up space that other, completely new, characters could have had. They are added when there isn't enough time to build/balance entirely new movesets.