What's one change...

[Locke17]

...that would instantly make Ike become an S tier character (Sheik tier), and one change that would make him the worst in the game?

Just a fun topic, I want to see how good or terrible you guys can make Ike.

 

[Arrei]

Hmm... in just one change? Assuming the idea is to take it at least halfway seriously instead of going full hog overpowered, perhaps making FSmash as fast as Roy's, but without losing any of its power or reach? As for one horrible, critical nerf... Aether loses its ability to ledge grab, at all, forcing Ike to recover back onto the stage every time only to get swatted off again, repeating ad infinitum.

 

[Linkmario00]

For the S tier I'd say QD Jump cancellable, but I'm not sure if it would be enough...it's difficult to make something this big happen with one change man

 

[Mario766]

Ike would need a huge speed buff on his smashes to he S tier instantly. If he had like frame 15 F-Smash, frame 12 U-Smash and Frame 7 D-Smash he'd be stupid to play.

But yeah, if Aether can't grab the ledge you basically die any time you're off stage and can't QD.

 

[Trueblade]

Giving him the Brawl jab combo with its damage and cancels in tact in this game where SDI is nearly nonexistant. EZ%.

Make his run speed equivalent to Shield Monado Shulk's walk speed.

 

[John12346]

Let's see if I can get creative, yet concise here...

S Tier: Dthrow has 0 knockback growth.
Bottom Tier: Jab 1 startup increased to frame 7.

 

[PyroTakun]

Make Ike's U-Smash frame data the same as Mario's.

 

[Mario766]

Let's see if I can get creative, yet concise here...

S Tier: Dthrow has 0 knockback growth.
Bottom Tier: Jab 1 startup increased to frame 7.

Dthrow having 0 KBG wouldn't change much. You get throw combos but Ike's grab game isn't good enough to make that really good. Combat Walking is a better option because Ike would get a much easier to perform Fox Jab Cancel combo that would go straight into tilt -> Aerial finisher for a kill.

Jab 1 being slow would kill Ike though, 100 percent.

Another really strong upgrade for Ike would be to steal from the OTHER really good up tilt in Brawl.

I'm talking Snake. Give Ike's up tilt absurdly wide disjoints *even more so than now* make it hit behind him even more so, frame 6. Still does 14 percent *Snake's did 13.* FAF 39 *9 frames faster*

 

[John12346]

Doesn't Dthrow confirm into Bair at low percents? 0 KBG would allow it to confirm at ALL percents, which would be epic for Ike's killing potential. I guess that's not enough for S Tier though, huh?

I like that idea of making his Usmash have Mario frame data though LMAO

 

[Rebel13]

S tier: give all his smashes super armor like little mac

Bottom tier: give him Robin's grab - frame data and range.

And lol at the Mario frame Usmash. That might make him more than S tier.

 

[Mario766]

Doesn't Dthrow confirm into Bair at low percents? 0 KBG would allow it to confirm at ALL percents, which would be epic for Ike's killing potential. I guess that's not enough for S Tier though, huh?

I like that idea of making his Usmash have Mario frame data though LMAO

I guess that'd help, but you'd still have to get them into a position for the kill and get the grab which is the hard part. Ike already has a decent way of getting a kill confirm off up throw f-air on fast fallers, though getting a guaranteed kill confirm would be nice. However less KB would also reduce the hitstun which would likely make down throw useless outside of high percents and remove Ike's footstool combo starter.

 

[san.]

0 frame endlag on pretty much anything, lol.

QD being able to cancel into other things would make him top 5. It would take 2 changes to make him S (reducing the startup/how the hitbox interacts or hitbox damage).

I guess that'd help, but you'd still have to get them into a position for the kill and get the grab which is the hard part. Ike already has a decent way of getting a kill confirm off up throw f-air on fast fallers, though getting a guaranteed kill confirm would be nice. However less KB would also reduce the hitstun which would likely make down throw useless outside of high percents and remove Ike's footstool combo starter.

It would be the same knockback as dthrow at 0% (along with rage), which you can combo everything into. It's not as great as it seems, since uthrow covers most things dthrow lacks, but it will give us instant kills above 80% where you need to be within a few frames to get the kills with uthrow.

 

[Mario766]

Does 0 KBG mean set KB?

Unless it'd be extremely small KB increases for big amount of percentages.

 

[san.]

Does 0 KBG mean set KB?

Unless it'd be extremely small KB increases for big amount of percentages.

There's base knockback, the knockback when you hit people at 0%.
Then there's knockback growth that increases with %.

Rage multiplies total knockback to my knowledge and hitstun is proportional to knockback.


So with 0 knockback growth, it'll just work as if you used dthrow on an opponent at 0% each time.

 

[Mario766]

I heard Rage only affects BKB personally.

 

[san.]

I heard Rage only affects BKB personally.

It affects total knockback. It has a larger effect on high base knockback moves because the total knockback is higher at lower to even middle-high %s for some moves.

Ex. Ike's uair is stronger than charizard's until ~70-80%, but with high rage Ike will be killing that early anyways, even though charizard's is better at low rage since it kills earlier in the 100s.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Fsmash is now a 360 degree AoE attack.

So now you can piss off people just like Robin's Dsmash.

 

[Baggy]

Best (had to pick two):
Counter is now rest
Luma

Worst:
1.0.0 Ike, everyone else 1.0.8

 

[Mario766]

Best (had to pick two):
Counter is now rest
Luma

Worst:
1.0.0 Ike, everyone else 1.0.8

Okay that just makes no sense.

 

[Baggy]

Okay that just makes no sense.

He'd be S though

Sonic Run speed
Shiek fair, Ike fsmash damage

Little Mac up B range

This is kind of fun

 

[Locke17]

What if Ike got a tipper like Marth, and his current damage remained the same?

 

[Arrei]

I don't think it'd push him to S tier, but it'd be a pretty big buff, especially because a couple of Ike's tippers, namely FSmash and USmash, are actually his sourspots, so to turn those into even stronger sweetspots... USmash would be a terror to behold and Ftilt would pretty much be Marth's Fsmash without the arcing hitbox.

 

[Mario766]

Up Smash just shouldn't have a sour spot at the end of the hitbox.

It used to be like F-Smash now, you actually got MORE damage off the end hitbox, now you just get a really weak 10 damage off a 30 frame smash attack. How is THAT okay.

 

[san.]

*shrug* Someone must've gotten salty on the balance team. Better the smash attacks sacrificed even though it feels terrible to land the sourspot, like the game is laughing at you. A compromise would've been making the sourspot have huge range like DDD's fsmash.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Give QD the same options as Sonic's Side B.

Mario's Usmash? Try Dr. Mario's Usmash now that its buffed.

ZSS's Dsmash.

 

[Rebel13]

@ Nidtendofreak We were only talking frame data, not the actual move. I believe Dr. Mario's frame data is the same as Mario's. Were talking buffs to moves not changing them completely.

Also thought of interesting one: Jump cancelable Aether (like once he regrabs his sword). The edgeguards possible would be disgusting, and you could probably combo the toss into forward air.

 

[AGreatProcrastinator]

Best: Control a pair of Ikes at once. Turn him into the Ike Climbers. Make the dream real

Worst: Ike's sword now has hitboxes like Metaknight's; only half of the sword actually does damage and the rest is imaginary.

 

[Baggy]

Shield breaking smash attacks. Smash attacks would be more rewarding and he'd gain an additional mixup game (use feints and set ups that force the opponent to land near you, then guess a roll, sidestep, or perfect shield to avoid getting hit or getting shield broken). It would also force opponents who are good at rushing him down (ie: everybody fast) to give him a little space so they don't get caught blocking a smash attack. Plus, I'd think it'd be a thematically appropriate attribute for him to have.

Worse: I don't know anything could make him the worst. Uh.

Back strain passive: Whenever Ike uses Usmash, Dsmash, Fsmash, or Bair, there's a chance the move won't come out and he takes 20% damage.

 

[Locke17]

Best: Control a pair of Ikes at once. Turn him into the Ike Climbers. Make the dream real

Worst: Ike's sword now has hitboxes like Metaknight's; only half of the sword actually does damage and the rest is imaginary.

Something like this lol

 

[ReroRero]

Buff : All of Ike moves where he swings his swords can launch a laser beam

Nerf : 1.0 Ike

 

[MasterExocuter]

Buff: Ike has aura so when he gets damaged, his sword grows BIGGER and he becomes FASTER and STRONGER and his recovery is BETTER

Nerf: Give 10 frames to each of his aerial's landing lags

 

[AN(M)ist]

Buff: Just give Ike his actual game stats (from path of radiance)

Nerf: Take away his sword.

 

[Tino]

S tier: Having a tipper like Marth's sword and his moves still having that devastating K.O. power from Brawl.

Worst: All of his movests having more endlag.

 

[NintendoKnight]

The best: Ultra Aether Buff. Can grab the edge backwards, heals the same percent it deals, breaks shields, etc.

The worst: All of his moves requiring a tipper sweetspot to kill, souspots are completely ineffective. Except for Fsmash, that one requires a hilt sweetspot.

 

[hotdogtaco4321]

Best: Ike's sword breaks other swords/limbs/hammers/luma/anything that has an active hitbox when it comes into contact with his sword. Making it unusable.

Worst: 1 BKB on all of his kill moves