What's different about melee from most games

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

When you stop and think about it what does ___________ do? let's take falco what does falco do? falco's goal is to lock them down so they can't attack and combo to death or some people's goal is to camp them to death. Really there's no between your hardcore camping or locking them down for combos. All at the same time trying to not get hit.

However what's amazing is how if you had 2 falcos the matches could vary so much that if you played 100 matches they would all be fairly different in soooo many ways. everything changes you won't always start off with lasering sometimes you run to powersheild their laser, shine or wait for their mistake maybe lasering forward, in place or away, or maybe you'll get on a polatform for safely from their lasers for to come donw shine dair them if they try to atytack you on the platform.

in JUST falco dittos there are countless mix-ups of the same few things that great options.

falco goals may be the same but there are so many ways to play as falco it's insane. will you Wd, run, sheild, jump, attack, projectile, dodge,approach, or nothing because you know it's a bait for one of them.

how does everyone play what's their goal? puff may try to keep you out and force you to the edge where you will mess up and punish you for any mistakes you make, or will puff trick you a lot into combos and pressureing your sheild?

what's everyone's goal and just think about all the different ways people do it. falcon wants a grab and we could play falcon dittos all day and play every match totally different maybe you'll moonwalk into a falcon kick to f*** with them. How will he DD? will he also add a few WD in there to make it harder to read or are they points where must people react to attack? my fox is set-up so it looks like you can tell when to attack but my movement will lie. I Dd closer than normal and you try to dash attack when I WD backwards my WDs and DDs together are very hard to read.

my goal may be to bait as fox that could be done with countless ways of movement, lasers, lagy attacks, or a percent lead may force them to attack.


i'd like to hear how everyone thinks their charcters goal is. really when I play I never have a plan I just adapt to them how I need to. as fox I won't just go for combos nor lasers I'm aimless so it's hard to predict same for my pichu.

 

[n1000]

The term "goal" necessarily refers to the end, the purpose of the strategy as opposed to the strategy itself. "Falco's goal" is the same as any other character's goal (more precisely, the player's goal since the characters obviously don't intend anything) to reach the winning condition, to hold stock while your opponent loses theirs.

You can't describe your goal in any other way, otherwise you're not playing to win, you're dancing for the combo video, studying the game, etc.

So it's not the end that changes, but the means. The variety you wrote about is in our strategies, not goals. And how can anyone who's played this game for any real amount of time simply describe their strategy? We can look at it microscopically: my strategy features adaptation. Unpredictability is only a facet of my gameplan.

That Melee has strictly homogeneous goals coupled with a staggering diversity of strategies is certainly "what's different about melee from most games," it is also by definition what makes Melee a good game: complexity.

tl;dr: one's "goal" is trivially easy to describe while one's strategy is mountainous difficult.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Our game is ruled by a fruit.

 

[BEES]

well the number of attacks and the variety of combos are very limited compared to other fighting games, so the depth is mostly made up by the freedom of movement, the unique strategies of edge play, and the variety of different approach patterns

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

falcon's combo game=d/up-throw, d-tilt/up-smash vs FFers. all airs=all airs. side-B on non-floaties jabs set-up grabs/knee/falcon kick. dair sets up punch. some fighting games have set combos so really it may feel like only a few combos because if you do his you should ALWAYS do this unless they blockedit or something but then it's you should do this.

falcon niar percents and dis and who you pick nearly infily mixs up everything makeing it a quick reaction game to pick the BEST option whoever unlike their set combos 3 of 4 options could kill them nair them off the stage to knee/upair/dair/weak knee. However sometimes one option is easy or better or may not work.

falco shine dair up-tilt/shine for different results.

f*** even pichu has some mix-ups for combos i discovered last night that the last hit of thunder sets up combos on FD even for jigglypuff tested at 20% so i you tricked puff into it on a platform stage you may be able to get thunder up-smash as a legit combo.


also there are some mindgame prediction combos i've goten nair upair 2nd jump to high knee but I predicted my brother would 2nd jump into the knee and he was killed from trying to recover way to soon If you saw it it wouldn't have worked anyother way.. take puff also di totally changes up her combo game like when puff gets a 4 hit combo from purely bairs it's due to di.

stages bring on different combos as well just watch a ssb match on hyrule or comapre falco from FD and battlefeild and ridebow ride. I'll go watch a random SF match and a random falcon match both at high levels of course and the options are clearly different combo wise.

 

[Doc King]

The fact that you have to get your foe off the screen to win instead of ranking up damage.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Our game is ruled by a fruit.

quoted for emphasis

 

[Nø Ca$h]

this game sucks compared to smash64

 

[Kanelol]

Our game is ruled by a fruit.

This times about a billion trillion

Smash is a very unique game though. More movement and attack options, and a really strange win/loss system based off multiple lives and a lack of an arbitrary health bar

 

[Wretched]

Our game is ruled by a fruit.

mango?
uh, smash is a conceptual game that has no precedents to work by. it has so many options and so many things you can do so the scale of skill is almost limitless.
Actually, i would say the sole reason that melee is so amazing and popular is because of the skill scale. everybody keeps getting better.

 

[n1000]

smash is a conceptual game that has no precedents to work by.

what the hell is that supposed to mean?

 

[Stratocaster]

The varying knockback leads to different combos at different percents on characters with greatly varying fallspeeds, none of which are really canned combos, also DI is an interesting mechanic for avoiding combos and surviving. I don't think either of those concepts are in any other fighting games. The ledges, edgeguarding, recovery, freedom of mobility and direction (can face away from opponent), platforms, bubble shields, and the nintendo all-star characters are more interesting than muscle man #6, dark swordsman #11, and scantily clad woman #69

Spoiler

lol 69

 

[Jonas]

It's not all that different actually. Yeah, it's worlds different from Street Fighter, but there's also great variety withing the "normal" fighting game genre. For instance, Street Fighter is very much unlike Tekken. You can't generalize fighters like that.

Smash is not the only fighting game where you can double jump. It's not the only one with ring-outs. It's not even the only fighting game where you can be four on the screen at one time. It's not the only mascot fighter either. Other fighting games have great freedom of movement too.
Like other fighters, it's a game about spacing/zoning, prediction, covering your opponents options etc.
I think what makes Smash most unique is the damage system and the edge game.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

in bushido blade you can edge gaurd, trip(not randomly), and camp with a gun brawl wasn't creative.


but KK is right there is like no limit to this game.

 

[NixxxoN]

Its basically an evolution of ssb64 with better stuff AND worse stuff at the same time.
Still I think that SSB64 is a bit better because of the great combos, but should have more DI.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Our game is ruled by a fruit.

but KK is right there is like no limit to this game.

I guess I can see how these are equivalent statements, yeah.

?_?

 

[omnibus2]

Its basically an evolution of ssb64 with better stuff AND worse stuff at the same time.
Still I think that SSB64 is a bit better because of the great combos, but should have more DI.

I am not an expert on ssb64, but I think there was too much hitstun in it. Melee has a near perfect hitstun system, but it's just not balanced enough. Still amazing how quickly the game was rushed, though.

 

[Wretched]

what the hell is that supposed to mean?

Smash had no idea what would happen coming out of development. the concept could be trash.
No game had ever worked with the "knock your opponent off the stage" or "you go further with every hit" concept.
A precedent is an example to work by.

 

[Jonas]

You could say that about other fighters, like Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter.

 

[Wretched]

Can I ask what the point in saying that is? I didn't say smash was the only game to be original.

 

[Jonas]

I just wasn't sure why you even brought it up.

 

[Wretched]

What's different about melee from most games

this .

 

[M.A.T.spam]

Our game is ruled by a fruit.

No, it's ruled by a person that goes by the alias of Mango. Not an actual fruit.

 

[Ace55]

^thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Jonas]

Yeah, I was really confused about that one.

 

[Geist]

Does anyone know other fighting games with mechanics like DI? I can't think of any.

 

[n1000]

ah I see, you meant "work from" what a r-- oh wait more lulz:

Can I ask what the point in saying that is? I didn't say smash was the only game to be original.

Behold the man who has the the linguistic ability to construct sentences without any content.

now I want you to explain what a "conceptual game" is.

 

[Wretched]

We'll, its when a game pioneers into a new concept as an experiment to see if it is viable as a franchise or has marketability.
For example, progressive genres of music do such.
There's no need to flame or insult either.

 

[TL?]

Dynamic combos. In most fighters you might as well put your controller down once you get hit by the combo starter.

 

[n1000]

So you've created the term "conceptual game" with "concept car" as a precedent to work by. You mean to term it a novel or original game. A "conceptual" game would be one that only exists as an idea or perhaps a game which deals specifically with concepts (I'll think of an idea, then you think of a similar but more ridiculous idea, we go back and forth. That would be a conceptual game)

Dynamic combos. In most fighters you might as well put your controller down once you get hit by the combo starter.

There have been some games with overpowered juggle systems but it's hardly the rule for fighting games. It's this sort of unabashed ignorance that maintains Smash Bros. players' status as the butt-of-all-jokes in the fighting game community.

Our game is awesome, complex, fast paced and original in all the right ways. That's why we play it, it's not because the other fighting games are over-simple, imba or unoriginal. Imagine if someone serious about Street Fighter who hadn't played much Smash ended up playing Fox vs Marth/Peach on FD? They'd immediately feel the same sentiment, "you might as well put your controller down once you get hit..." We would read this as an ignorant statement by someone who's lacks the knowledge to make sweeping claims.

*cough*

 

[Wretched]

You seem to have created a reproach for me using a term to descibe smash that was conceived in my efforts to explain why I like the game. My intentions were all but good and we're on the same side as far as liking this game for the same reasons, but you seem to be bent on just being ****ty about smash terms.

Edit: I understand if you felt like I was being sarcastic and acting like you were stupid when i was explaining, but I wasn't.

 

[n1000]

my last post wasn't a flame. We must be persistent in the precision of our language when theorizing. It's ok to fudge terms in regular conversation but when expressing new ideas (i.e. when answering conceptual questions like ICG's) any ambiguous or obscure language undermines communication.

 

[BEES]

Dynamic combos. In most fighters you might as well put your controller down once you get hit by the combo starter.

Other games have bursting instead of DI. Also, air teching, and techable vs untechable followups. The system of depth is different but equivalent.

 

[ranmaru]

TL;DR

It's nintendo characters fighting to the death. Like if you play Soul Calibur two it doesn't look as serious as melee, but you are doing the same thing, KNOCK OUT OF STAGE lol.

Although SC2 is beast as well.

 

[NixxxoN]

I am not an expert on ssb64, but I think there was too much hitstun in it. Melee has a near perfect hitstun system, but it's just not balanced enough. Still amazing how quickly the game was rushed, though.

Melee has not enough hitstun. You have limited combo possibilities and you can't be as creative.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

lol stomp a fox with falcon at 70% and tell him that he should of have had more hit stun so you could set up your 10second knee combo.

 

[ranmaru]

So you've created the term "conceptual game" with "concept car" as a precedent to work by. You mean to term it a novel or original game. A "conceptual" game would be one that only exists as an idea or perhaps a game which deals specifically with concepts (I'll think of an idea, then you think of a similar but more ridiculous idea, we go back and forth. That would be a conceptual game)



There have been some games with overpowered juggle systems but it's hardly the rule for fighting games. It's this sort of unabashed ignorance that maintains Smash Bros. players' status as the butt-of-all-jokes in the fighting game community.

Our game is awesome, complex, fast paced and original in all the right ways. That's why we play it, it's not because the other fighting games are over-simple, imba or unoriginal. Imagine if someone serious about Street Fighter who hadn't played much Smash ended up playing Fox vs Marth/Peach on FD? They'd immediately feel the same sentiment, "you might as well put your controller down once you get hit..." We would read this as an ignorant statement by someone who's lacks the knowledge to make sweeping claims.

*cough*

Well let me tell you something. I don't play fighting games, because I don't know how to play them well. I have Street Fighter II World Warrior for Snes but was never good at it.

Smash bros seems more like a party game, not a fighter. I saw that there are only two button inputs (the main ones I guess) and it didn't SEEM like a fighting game... Err, it's hard to explain.

I mean if there was no smash, I wouldn't really be trying to get into other fighting games the way I got into smash. I mean I try to play Soul Calibur II, and I try to reference back to Smash bros, like stage knock out.

I don't think it would be our fault for 'ignorance' of fighting games. Some might take initiative, some might not.

Nothing you can do, and vice versa for people who usually play Sf and starts getting ***** by fox dair>shine combos and starts whining.

 

[Professor :3]

the main difference is that...

every other game is boring.

 

[melee43vr]

one of the greatest things about melee is wavedashing.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Melee has not enough hitstun. You have limited combo possibilities and you can't be as creative.

man

what a bad attempt