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Work In Progress "What? You're just now explaining the controls?" - Falco's Moveset Analysis General

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Hello, everyone! Captain RQ69 here, ready to advance Falco's meta with an exciting totally-not-stolen-from-the-Samus-board idea: analyzing Falco's moveset! Each week, we'll decide on a particular Falco move to talk about and discuss uses, advantages and disadvantages of the move as well as neat combos, video montages featuring that move, and whatever else you can think of! We'll be sure to cover each move as in-depth as we can, including all of Falco's matchups (even the ones that don't have threads yet) and custom moves will get their time in the spotlight! Now, let's keep this in mind:
  • This thread was launched before the release of Mewtwo, meaning we're basing things on 3DS version 1.0.5 and Wii U version 1.0.2. No doubt, there may be new versions down the line and I'll allow revisiting moves as we go on. Information may become outdated in the future, so keep this in mind!
  • The community will vote on what move to discuss next after we've all reached the limit of discussion on our current move or after a week has passed, whichever comes first. This is to encourage continuing discussion and to ensure things don't get stale around here!
  • This should go without saying, but please respect others in discussion and don't get carried away. It's okay to say someone is wrong as long as you can explain why in a respectful manner, but name-calling other people is not okay.
Now, for the first order of business, I think we should begin with Falco's forward tilt (tilt:GCR:+:GCA:).
[collapse=Forward Tilt (22nd of March, 2015)]His forward tilt can be angled forward, downward and upward though the angle the opponent is launched does not change. Its base damage is 9%, and kills above 200% so we won't be using it to finish opponents anytime soon. Its utility in my opinion comes from how quick it is. Starting at frame 6 it's a good option to push people away when they are close to you. Jab is faster, sure, but many characters can interrupt or escape it, so it isn't guaranteed, and forward smash isn't fast enough. It carries more range than up tilt, and is ever-so-slightly faster than down tilt with no need to sweetspot. It's a nice poking tool as well, and can be used to clank with attacks though with what I'll have to look into.[/collapse]
[collapse=Up Tilt (30th of March, 2015)]Up Tilt is a good move for racking up damage at low percents, dealing ~9% if both hits connect. Nearly all characters except for the lightest floaty characters will fall down fast enough to hit another utilt, and maybe even another before you can follow up with nair, uair, or bair. Typically they'll jump away to avoid another utilt, which you can take advantage of by trying for uair or fair depending on what's more advantageous, or even rack up damage with lasers from afar. Utilt can hit prone opponents to send them upward, and according to the frame data on hand it's one of Falco's fastest tilts. It's not something to be tossed out, as opponents who block can punish with a simple grab. Basically, a quick move to pop them in the air for some aerial punishment. Good to have against fighters like Mac and Dorf.[/collapse]
Now that I've opened it up, please feel free to begin discussion and suggest what moves we should cover next! Let's understand our mid-tier bird inside and out!

Oh, and for those who are wondering, the quote comes from a Smash taunt on Corneria. Whip out your 3DS, pick Fox and try to get it!
 
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NotAnAdmin

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I think it's his second best tilt in his moveset.

You've got a very safe poke, for shield pressure or if you want to space yourself.
It has decent knockback at around 45-50% to make your opponent stay back when you go into a defensive mode.
You've also got your pivot ftilt that shows that it works somewhat like his bair, he has one hitbox inside of his body. Also it's pretty nice for mixups.

If there are any other uses for this attack I wouldn't know them.
 

BltzZ

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At lower percents like mid 30s I like to throw out two forward tilts then a down smash. Most people will roll towards you to get behind after the forward tilts. Even at higher percents Falco's back foot from down smash will launch farther and if done at the edge can lead to a gimp since it launches foes diagonally and we can follow with fair or dair
 

Snackss

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At lower percents like mid 30s I like to throw out two forward tilts then a down smash. Most people will roll towards you to get behind after the forward tilts. Even at higher percents Falco's back foot from down smash will launch farther and if done at the edge can lead to a gimp since it launches foes diagonally and we can follow with fair or dair
I try the double tilt to bait a forward roll and then down smash, but I don't think I know of a single situation where it worked for me.

Forward tilt has basically no knockback at starting percents. Does anyone get any kind of followups off of those? I don't think Falco has a frame advantage, but getting hit and not knocked back will probably confuse people.
 

Ffamran

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Ftilt at starting percents might be better as a spacing tool and a way to interrupt people. So, if someone's bum rushing you, Ftilt can stop them and he can sort of Ftilt again or Reflector out of Ftilt.

There's also this which I don't really know how it works and it might be a character-dependent thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uWkQ6z06m9s#t=600.

Also, I've been wondering about Falco's Ftilt when angled. Considering the range, angled up Ftilts might be a way to anti-air in front of you while angled down Ftilts would cover shorter characters and maybe ledge poke? I'm not sure and even then, Dtilt would be better on shorter characters, but Dtilt lacks the angle down since it's just low to the ground rather than poking downwards like Ftilt.
 

NotAnAdmin

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That's a jab reset, I'm not sure if that's what it's called in Smash 4 but that's what it's called in Melee and PM. Anyways, if you use a weak attack, like Falco's ftilt in the video or his jab it causes your opponent to automatically stand straight up, they cannot roll to the right or left. It gives you an easy punish. I believe it only works if your opponent misses the tech upon landing from an attack.
I'm pretty sure that works on everyone and also it works with his laser, with is pretty nice if you anticipate a missed tech.

It got nerfed compared to Brawl because it could cause something like the videos, skip to 0:20 on the first one, it's almost impossible to lock them this way for very long however if you SDI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxiXzgYuS7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
 

Ffamran

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Going to repost this since we're on the subject of Ftilt.
Found somthing new, a 0% I found out that if you opt for a D-throw, instead of going to a jab lock you can hit them with an f-tilt angled upped, then regrab, which allows you to go for another grab combo. All the people I did it to online couln't get out of it online, but I haven't done extended tested yet.
 
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After a week of interesting tilt discussion I've decided the next order of business should be talking about Falco's up tilt (tilt:GCU:+:GCA:).
[collapse=Up Tilt (30th of March, 2015)] Up Tilt is a good move for racking up damage at low percents, dealing ~9% if both hits connect. Nearly all characters except for the lightest floaty characters will fall down fast enough to hit another utilt, and maybe even another before you can follow up with nair, uair, or bair. Typically they'll jump away to avoid another utilt, which you can take advantage of by trying for uair or fair depending on what's more advantageous, or even rack up damage with lasers from afar. Utilt can hit prone opponents to send them upward, and according to the frame data on hand it's one of Falco's fastest tilts. It's not something to be tossed out, as opponents who block can punish with a simple grab. Basically, a quick move to pop them in the air for some aerial punishment. Good to have against fighters like Mac and Dorf.[/collapse]

Now, this doesn't mean we can't discuss ftilt anymore, by all means if you have something to add throw it out there; it means our main topic of discussion is now utilt, so we should prioritize that. I've given up a base for discussion, so let's get to it!
 

BltzZ

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Gotta love Up tilts on battlefield or any stage with a platform above falco. My main use of up tilt is during my startup combo which CAN be DI'd however it has a great success rate against players who try to airdodge into the ground or dair or nair out of it.

At 0-5% Dthrow- Dash attack - up smash - 2x up tilts or 1. Bair or nair. After the bair if you fast fall you can regrab their landing or dash attack again.

If you opt for the nair instead of the bair you can have some serious fun. Fast falling the nair will make you miss the last hit, this will make your opponent land on or by you you can follow up with a regrab or up tilt to up air or nair again. It's hilarious the possibilities are endless but depends on your opponents actions.

Some opponents will jump after the up smash which you can follow with fair up air or nair due to Falco's high jumping capabilities. With falco I like to keep the gap closed and stay in their face. IAP(instant aerial phantasms) to close the gap, quick jumps, full hop lasers on airborne foes then IAP.
 

NotAnAdmin

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I still can't into using uptilt consistently, but uptilt is a good juggle move at low percent, and a pretty useful move for stages like Battlefield, it pokes just enough through the platforms.
Also I tested it kills at around 190+ for high weight characters and around 135 for low weights
 

Ffamran

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Falco's fastest tilt at frame 5 followed by Ftilt (frame 6) and Dtilt (frame 7). I'm not sure if it's disjointed since someone mentioned it, but it was a commentator, so he might have been saying stuff on the fly. If it was disjointed in Brawl, then it's probably disjointed in this game too.

It's probably a safer bet for comboing and anti-air despite being weaker than Up Smash; Utilt does 9%, 4% first hit and 5% second hit, with a full connection while (uncharged) Up Smash does 16%, 4% first hit and 12% second hit. The good thing about it is its speed which makes it so that if you whiff it, you won't be as punished when you whiff Up Smash. Another thing is that it lingers out out more than Up Smash or feels like it since the hitbox isn't as messed up as Up Smash.

Anyone tried pivoting Utilt or using reverse Utilts? Just wondering.
 

SDFox

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If we talking about u-tilts, I have something, though I believe this is else were on the forums, at higher% n-air combos into u-tilt, which you can then string into another n-air.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never done this online but I've done it quite a few times to the practice bot while your waiting for your opponent,
which is up throw at 0% into up-tilt. Never saw a reason to try this to a real person when we have such better options, but just going to throw it out there.
 
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I noticed how in practice mode, utilt into utilt isn't a true combo, but it probably catches everyone who airdodges thanks to the multiple hits. Still, are there any aerials that could beat it? Ness' nair, perhaps?

I hope 1.0.6 gives utilt a damage boost just because.
 
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NotAnAdmin

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I would think Rosy's dair, since it disjoints very far from her hitbox.
 
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It really feels like nothing has happened except some posts on the video thread and approach thread.

Anyway, this will be the last week of discussion until Mewtwo drops (and the balance patch with him), so I'm going to lay out what we'll do:
  • We'll discuss a new move this week like usual, taking into consideration what we know. We'll be on info outdated within the month, but we shouldn't hold back anyway. After all, this move might not be affected by changes and may still have utility in the future meta for Falco.
  • After the balance patch hits, I'll revisit the first three moves if any of them received notable alterations. If none of them received changes, we'll simply move on to a new move to talk about. If they all did, we'll discuss any new uses we may have for them, and then move on.
  • If anyone has concerns they'd like to voice, feel free to post it here or shoot me a message.
With this established, I'd like to begin discussion on Falco's down tilt (tilt:GCD:+:GCA:).

[collapse=Down Tilt (6th of April, 2015)]His down tilt has several hitboxes at the edge of his tail, the length of his tail, or at his body which deal different percents (9%, 11% and 12% respectively.) It's his slowest tilt but only by two frames compared to his fastest. Despite this, it's one of Falco's fastest moves with the ability to send opponents flying upward. According to the frame data thread it's disjointed, so the tail edge hitbox isn't necessarily exclusive to the edge of Falco's tail. As for utility, it's a good way to pop up your opponent if the opening shows itself, giving you the chance to bait out something for a good punish. Perhaps nair or uair are good follow ups? From what I've seen it has comparable range to ftilt, though it may go slightly farther. It's not a tool for poking though. I recommend keeping it fresh at high percents, as dtilt becomes a kill move in the mid-100 percents when you hit with the tail or body hitboxes. There's higher knockback from the base of the tail than the tail edge, so keep that in mind.[/collapse]

There's the facts on dtilt, but how about the utility of it? I like it as a kill move, but I don't think it's the most effective combo starter in Falco's moveset at neutral. What do you guys think?
 
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NotAnAdmin

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The revival of the Falco Boards 2 : Electric Boogaloo.

Anyways, dtilt is my favorite tilt, it's good for spacing, and it's so quick.
It has pretty good grab set-ups that seem to work on every character at low percent. I like to start with a jab then move to dtilt > dash grab > dthrow > dash attack/bair/usmash.
Also dtilt links into itself at low percent so this combo can actually be extended.
Also is it just me or does the dtilt push the opponent away when they shield it?
 

Ffamran

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Also is it just me or does the dtilt push the opponent away when they shield it?
That would need testing and I can't do it reliably since I only have a 3DS.

For comboing into itself, you'd probably need to hit with the disjoint, the 9% hit since the 12% has stronger knockback and knockback growth. At higher percents, it serves as a launcher, so you could follow up with something while your opponent's in the air, but characters with good aerial mobility will probably be able to get away. At even higher percents or kill range, this move kills and deceptively since people probably wouldn't expect it. Just make sure to hit with the body hitbox, the 12% hit.

Because of the disjoint and speed, it's good at catching people off guard and punishing. The only issue which applies to a lot of Dtilts and Down Smashes is don't try using it against people in the air. For one, if Link does his Dash Attack, it'll whiff and not to the mention the range wouldn't even be enough since Link would leap forward with his Jump Attack.

Like Down Smash and Utilt?, Falco can hit people before they grab the ledge with Dtilt. Characters who can't sweetspot the ledge or can mess up their sweetspot like the Pits can be punished with any of those. It's Falco's strongest tilt, so make use of it.
 
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What does your having a 3DS have to do with testing, Ffamran? :O
The revival of the Falco Boards 2 : Electric Boogaloo.

Anyways, dtilt is my favorite tilt, it's good for spacing, and it's so quick.
It has pretty good grab set-ups that seem to work on every character at low percent. I like to start with a jab then move to dtilt > dash grab > dthrow > dash attack/bair/usmash.
Also dtilt links into itself at low percent so this combo can actually be extended.
Also is it just me or does the dtilt push the opponent away when they shield it?
Yeah, I was using dtilt the other day and only then realized that it links to itself at low percents. Easy damage and can be followed up into nair pretty nicely.

Dtilt does push them away a bit, but so do other moves like ftilt. It's unsafe on shield though, seems like characters can land a grab before Falco can jump away, and you need to shield before rolling unless there's a way to buffer rolls that I'm not aware of. Maybe we can jab out of dtilt? At the very least it's not gonna be with the body hitbox, you gotta hit with the disjoint if you want to escape punishment OoS from most characters.
 

NotAnAdmin

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He only has the 3DS version, unless you have 2 3DS you can't test things very well unless the CPU just happens to do what you want.

What does your having a 3DS have to do with testing, Ffamran? :O

Yeah, I was using dtilt the other day and only then realized that it links to itself at low percents. Easy damage and can be followed up into nair pretty nicely.

Dtilt does push them away a bit, but so do other moves like ftilt. It's unsafe on shield though, seems like characters can land a grab before Falco can jump away, and you need to shield before rolling unless there's a way to buffer rolls that I'm not aware of. Maybe we can jab out of dtilt? At the very least it's not gonna be with the body hitbox, you gotta hit with the disjoint if you want to escape punishment OoS from most characters.
Good to know it's technically safe from grabs on shield unless you dash grab.
 
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I won't be updating this thread with a new move to discuss until the patch hits.

We can just keep discussing the merits of Falco's tilts, a core part of his moveset that I personally think newcomers overlook. I'll also update the OP with new 1.0.6 info and testimonials from Falco players who have something to say, so I look forward to the coming week!
 

SDFox

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Just a couple of miscellaneous tilt things I've noticed then.
D-Tilt can shield poke pretty effectively.
U-Tilt can combo into Up smash at low percents on some characters.
thats all I've got. .-.
 

KoiWhite

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How do you guys feel about d-tilt vs side tilt?

Though one frame slower, it feels so much more reliable. Range is constant and don't have to worry about tilting properly. useful for those 1 frame edge grabs, and an actual kill move too. The fact that it decreases your own hit box while throwing out a disjointed one that can combo easily to others makes it seem to be the better spacing tilt objectively. Or is that 1 frame speed really that much better with side tilt?
 

Ffamran

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How do you guys feel about d-tilt vs side tilt?

Though one frame slower, it feels so much more reliable. Range is constant and don't have to worry about tilting properly. useful for those 1 frame edge grabs, and an actual kill move too. The fact that it decreases your own hit box while throwing out a disjointed one that can combo easily to others makes it seem to be the better spacing tilt objectively. Or is that 1 frame speed really that much better with side tilt?
I mentioned this before, but the issue with Dtilt is that it can't hit anywhere, but downwards. That's the main thing and Dtilt vs. Ftilt doesn't really make sense when Dtilt is more of a launcher, kill move, and a "grounded" move while Ftilt is more for spacing and poking people rather than killing or doing anything major. Ftilt functions more like a, "Get back, fool!", while Dtilt is more like, "Die, fool!".
 

theONEjanitor

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Uptilt - I mainly use this as an out of shield punish, particularly when enemies are behind me. this hits behind falco which is pretty cool but you have to learn the range or else it'll whiff and this move is laggy so you'll get punished. as mentioned can combo into itself on most characters at low-mid percents. sometimes dash attack combos into uptilt, but in my experience, people usually DI to avoid that. comes out fast though. (frame 5), kills around 170-ish, but if you're letting people live that long you're playing the character wrong.

D-tilt- does the most damage of the tilts (12%), but does less damage and knockback at the tip. sweetspot kills around 120 and higher depending on characters/stage. really easy kill option at high percents. at 0% dtilt to dtilt, dtilt to jab combo and dtilt to upsmash often works. at higher percents, try dtilt dash attack or dtilt fsmash although they will probably be able to jump or attack out of it. pops them in the air of course which is good and you can go from there how you choose. I like using d-tilt more than f-tilt, because more chance of follow up. i dont know the exact frame data but the windown lag feels identical between dtilt and ftilt (EDIT: it is). both dtilt and low angle ftilt will hit someone hanging from ledge

F-tilt - slightly more range than d-tilt. unsafe on hit at low %, will knock over opponent starting around 70/80% iirc. can be used to "jab" lock/ force get up during the flopping animation from missed tech/footstool. at 0% missed tech on d-throw can lead in to f-tilt lock, and then whatever you want after three hits. Experimenting with ftilt lock x3 to lcancel dair -> follow up. I haven't mastered the lcancel dair yet tho, so usually i go to f-tilt x3 to charge upsmash. easy 0-50%. replace the first ftilt with a dair for even more damage :) easier to do on big characters. most good players are going to tech though obviously. Ftilt comes out quicker than dtilt, so in desperate situations where you are not sure if you can get the punish, i would use this. tbh in most other punish situations I would use dtilt, or something stronger
 
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What's good everyone? It's been a while since I updated this, but with the new patch and such I figured we may as well keep it going! As far as I know there haven't been any changes made to his tilts, but we can discuss them anyway because yeah.

I have been procrastinating a bit on this, but that's because I've begun participating in tournaments and I've been picking up more viable (for me) characters since my Falco is by no means the best Falco even on this board. Doesn't mean I can't talk about him with you guys though, I do play him a lot still! :4falco:

So, let's talk about Falco's Jab and all its elements (:GCA:). That's Jab 1, Jab 2, Jab 3 (the "Falcopter), and Jab 4. We can discuss each part individually or the jab combo as a whole and their utilities, no matter how situational.

I'm of the personal opinion that jab is an effective tool to push people away and rack up a bit of damage. I don't recommend jab cancels a la Fox unless your opponent has no aerials that can hit you before they hit the ground, then you could follow up with dtilt. Jab combos shouldn't be tossed out at random, as if the opponent escapes or it whiffs it leaves Falco open for attack which nobody wants. Falco's jab attack base damage percentages are:
  • Jab 1 - 3%
  • Jab 2 - 2%
  • Jab 3 (Falco's spinning attack) - Data thread states 0.4% for each hit and I'm assuming no change to the jab in 1.0.8
  • Jab 4 (Finisher) - 3%
With this out of the way, may we re-open discussion on Falco's moveset @ Ffamran Ffamran ? Again, my apologies for the absence!
 

Ffamran

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Using frame advantage calculations as an excuse to revive this...

Holy ****, Falco's Dtilt is godplayer. On Mario, so on "average" or on the average punching bag, Falco will get at least +2 on-hit or +10 if he sweet-spots it which requires him to be right next to you at 0%. On-shield and after shield-drop, it's -10 with the disjoint and -9 on his tail and sweet-spotted. Should I mention this move pushes shields? Falco's Dtilt is one ridiculous move.

Oh, and never use his Ftilt at 0%, you're going to be around -11. Acting out of jab 1 and jab 2 are "better" options at -4 and -8, respectively. Or you could Dtilt instead. :p
 
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Blame me being the biggest procrastinator in the history of putting off things to do later. I had a series of "I'll revive this post after I try out Luigi/Olimar/WFT/Shiek/Splatoon" days. >.<;;;;

So basically dtilt is da bess at low percents because it has better frame data than other comparable moves with the advantage of pushing away shields to mitigate the disadvantage on shield. Better hope your opponent doesn't roll!

I'm gonna need to stop being lazy and work on the OP, otherwise this is gonna look more archaic than a Kirby fansite. ;__;
 

NotAnAdmin

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I told you guys the d-tilt was a godsend, it's properties are just right for close range combat.
 

A2ZOMG

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I'm a bit late but:

F-tilt: the most underrated use for F-tilt is up-angled for anti-airs. This is Falco's lowest commitment anti-air, which is really important in some matchups when people will usually try to use SH spacing to avoid Falco's strong ground game.

U-tilt: Pretty good for catching dodges, hitting people above you, platform pressure, strings into itself. Reasonable KO option at high percents and can catch ledge getups fairly easily.

D-tilt: Falco's best poke. Safe on block, good power for its speed, sets up combos, can kill. Abuse this move where applicable.
 

Snipnigth

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I'm a bit late but:

F-tilt: the most underrated use for F-tilt is up-angled for anti-airs. This is Falco's lowest commitment anti-air, which is really important in some matchups when people will usually try to use SH spacing to avoid Falco's strong ground game.

U-tilt: Pretty good for catching dodges, hitting people above you, platform pressure, strings into itself. Reasonable KO option at high percents and can catch ledge getups fairly easily.

D-tilt: Falco's best poke. Safe on block, good power for its speed, sets up combos, can kill. Abuse this move where applicable.
I have considered using my cstick on atack so im able to use tilts faster, a falco that have mastered its tilt moves its really hard to approach, dtilt and ftilt (specialy ftilt) are both dicently safe on block specially if you follow it up with a jab. i belive tilts and rar bair are the main thing any falco needs to master for their neutral game, puts up a nice wall of pain

A nice combination is rar bair then fastfall ftilt, comes out really fast, if your opponent blocks your bair, he will probably try to grab you or jab you, by then youll already be in the floor throwing out your ftilt resulting sometimes in a trade or clean hit depending on how fast your opponent reacts, and if he dosent block your bair and he is at low % youll probably be able to combo your ftilt.
 

GerudoKong

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I honestly don't know whether or not this is a good smash attack or not. I feel like it's relatively fast ending, but has sourspots half the time. Is it a decent kill move?
 

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It is a good kill move, but I have trouble with the reliability of it too honestly. Falco's smashes in general are pretty lackluster for the most part IMO, but F-smash is incredibly powerful if you can get the read.
 

IndigoSSB

Back from the dead
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Apr 14, 2015
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441
It's decent imo relative the other smash attack, at the very least it's more reliable that up and down smash. It works pretty well for reads and catching landings, but like you said it has a big sour spot that pretty much won't kill. Long story short it's not the best but it gets the job done.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Aug 25, 2014
Messages
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Merged with the moveset analysis thread since I don't think Side Smash requires its own thread.
I honestly don't know whether or not this is a good smash attack or not. I feel like it's relatively fast ending, but has sourspots half the time. Is it a decent kill move?
It's decent imo relative the other smash attack, at the very least it's more reliable that up and down smash. It works pretty well for reads and catching landings, but like you said it has a big sour spot that pretty much won't kill. Long story short it's not the best but it gets the job done.
Side Smash is Falco's kill Smash while Up Smash is meant more for anti-airing, land trapping, and ledge trapping and Down Smash is more for trying to hit below the ledge - edgeguarding -, gimping because of its low launch angle, and as a simple get off me option.

Side Smash is frame 17-19 clean and 20 late with a total of 4 active frames, 3 clean, 1 late, 29 recovery frames, and 48 total frames. Clean, it does 15% with 42 base knockback, 90 (hands), 93 (elbows), or 90 (body) knockback growth, Late, it does 10% with 30 base and 90 growth. Both hits launch at 361 degrees - basically pushes forward without lifting people off the ground at low percents and diagonally up at high percents. Both hits are also transcendent.

Hitbox-wise, first off, I never been able to hit with the body hitbox; I don't even know why it even exists. Anyway, the main draw of this move is that it's transcendent which means that Falco cannot clank with this move. He can trade, but he can't clank; he'll just bulldoze through. With the way it hits, Falco lunges forward, lowers his hurtbox a bit, the arcing hitbox, and its transcendent priority, Side Smash can be used as an anti-air, but one based on reading aerial approaches because of its startup. Oh, and the late hit is essentially a tipper. By the time Falco's hands reach the ground, it's at max range and with the way it hits, I doubt you can late hit while his arms are swooping down like that. Still more of a punish move, but Bair can do the same while being frame 10 - frame 6 jump + Bair's frame 4 startup -, safer, and killing ~7% later. Although, Bair lacks Side Smash's range and transcendent priority.


In comparison, Up Smash is frames 8-12 and 12-21 - this never really got confirmed as Thinkaman's data dump for 1.0.8 said the second hit went from frames 13-20 to 12-21, but there was no "real" proof. Not a big deal, though. So, a total of 14 active frames, 5 for the first hit and 11 for the second hit, 28 recovery, and 49 total. The first hit does 4% with set knockback to lead into the second hit which does 12% with 30 base, 98 growth, and launches at 80 degrees. The high active frames makes the recovery low despite its low startup and high total frames. Also, despite doing 16% total, with multi-hit moves, the last hit is what matters. So, even though it does the same total damage as Fox's clean, sweet-spotted Up Smash, has similar knockback - Falco has 4 more growth -, and the same hit angle, it's significantly weaker even to Fox's clean, but not sweet-spotted Up Smash which does 14%. It still kills (slightly?) later than Yoshi's Up Smash which does 14% clean and 12% late with 7 more base, 3 less growth, and launches 5 degrees lower, 75. Up Smash is an anti-air and abusing its active frames lets Falco ledge trap people who try for regular getup and even jump getups. Also, it's a decent combo tool since it chains into itself at low percents on certain characters or can be used as finisher after Utilt at low percents.

Down Smash is frames 7-9, 3 active frames, 37 recovery, and 46 total. It has 2 hitboxes: his legs and his body. With his legs, it does 15% and launches at 25 degrees while his body does 12% and launches at 80 degrees. Both do the same knockback of 20 base and 76 growth. Kind of seems unsafe, right? It's actually slightly faster in recovery than Fox's, but still pretty slow. The thing about Down Smash is that it makes Falco's legs invincible for frames 3-7. So, during its startup, Falco's legs can pretty much challenge anything. This is helpful for hitting recoveries that don't really end at the ledge, but don't clip through too much like if for whatever reason Ness misses the ledge during PKT2, Falco can actually ignore PKT2 and hit Ness. The issue is that it only happens during the startup unlike Fox's which happens during its hit frames of 6-7. Its invincibility is also balanced by its short range - it's even slightly disjointed! -, low active frames, high recovery, and low knockback. Then again... (Dr.) Mario, Luigi, and Rosalina's Up Smash which are all fast, all low recovery, and all make them partially invincible... Still a pretty good get off me option, but beware about its recovery. If some rolls or whatever and they're in front, it might be better to Dtilt instead and if they're behind you, but too far away, Bair might be a better option or a turnaround Dtilt. Otherwise, if they're right next to you, Down Smash if you can't/don't know how to jump cancel an Up Smash out of shield and they're not in front since the back hit of Up Smash probably won't hit until frame ~12.
 
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