What Veterans Should Enter or Cut?? Smash Switch Discussion and Thread

[Elec]

my thoughts on this, any character that isnt mentioned will likely return, as much as i want jigglypuff to be axed from the roster.

most vulnerable:
dark pit and lucina are just blatant clones, they were supposed to be alt costumes anyways so they probably will be. cloud is a third party meaning that they have to get square's rights again to add him in, and seeing as to how little song representation its unsure if he can get in.

slight chance of the axe:
ryu feels out of place in smash 4 so i can see that as reason for him being cut but capcom is so cool with crossovers he can make it back. corrin feels off to be, she doesnt give off that vibe that the other fe characters do, which represent the era of fe games they come from, marth being the (super) famicom games, roy being the gba games, and ike being tellius games. fates is often grouped with awakening due to the same artstyle and mechanics of the games and we already have robin who represents that era. however she is pretty unique with that dragon thing so she could stay for that reason. doc may seem like a blatant clone at first, but he actually plays differently from mario with a couple of different hitboxes and a different down b, along with trading speed and mobility for sheer strength. however even despite that, i can still see him becoming an alt of mario.

will probably stay down:
pichu was just a joke character, and ivysaur and squirtle arent as favored as charizard. there would also be too many pokemon otherwise. snake on the other hand is an interesting case, with whats happened with kojima and the metal gear franchise, it almost seems impossible to bring back snake. but knowing how greedy konami is, sakurai could probably just bribe konami to bring snake in to smash.

has reason to not suffer the fate:
bayonetta is a game series that has become exclusive to nintendo as of late so there is no real reason to cut her from smash, even despite her being unfun to fight and provocative a bit. mewtwo, lucas, roy were all previously cut characters that came back as dlc, it doesnt rly make sense to me to cut these characters again, especially when mewtwo is completely original, lucas has a lot of different moves, hitboxes, and properties than ness, and roy plays a lot more closeup than marth with his sweetspot being the hilt of his blade.

rise once more:
ice climbers were only cut due to 3ds limitations, sakurai will most definitely add them back into smash 5. wolf though, despite him having an almost unique moveset compared to fox and falco other than specials and landmaster, just never got brought back. however he did have a really solid campaign during the ballot and due to his veteran status it almost seems like theres a nice chance of him coming back.

EDIT: forgot young link , toon link exists so i doubt he'll return anyways

 

[FunAtParties]

I say cut them all, just keep the Inklings. They should also replace the mechanics, no one plays fighting games anymore, shooters are where it's at. It has to be kinda different though, no FPS, should be from a 3rd person perspective, and instead of getting kills the focus should be covering territory.

For real though Ice Climbers and Wolf are high on my wishlist

 

[fogbadge]

Why would they cut Shulk; he’s basically XenoMarth, and no other character they could add has anything Shulk has.

It’s the “Theyre gonna cut Marth and add Lucina” all over again. The series symbol is even specifically the Monado.

im just generally worried for all the characters i like to play as who were just added

hope the dont cut the duck hunt duo

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I’m always nervous of cuts, since some of my characters are not as popular.

1. I’d make the clones true alternates again. and especially play just like the parent form, and there is no reason to keep them separate.

2. 3rd parties are always precarious, and a lot will be based on rights. is pretty well safe if Namco is still helping, and everyone noticed the hype when was announced, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back. Is almost definitely in. On the other hand, were DLC, so I’m not sure if they will stick around.

3. Of the Nintendo DLC, we know they were all cut before so it could happen again. I think is the safest of the three, since he’s got more of a unique moveset, and was a Melee vet. On the other hand are more precarious. Our boy is also a Melee vet, but really hasn’t had much import to his series lately, which is slightly disappointing since he was really well Luigified in 4. Mother is pretty well a dead series, and there are also few major differences with Lucas, especially since tether grabs were removed.

4. Last tier of cuts would probably be the ones they put in that were SSB4 only and not incredibly relevant to new games. I’d expect to stick around, since he was an assist in Brawl and has a unique gimmick. was a great choice ao I really hope he sticks it out as an homage to the NES days (better than other robots...), but was a weird and interesting choice that didn’t translate to new and fun gameplay, at least for me. Same could be said for , in that the series changes protagonists all the time, and Robin and Lucy mainly got in since Awekening just came out, and Corrin pulled a Roy and came out before their game. There is also a new Pokémon generation, so is also being overshadowed, but he does have some popularity, but I don’t think it matches Lucario, Mewtwo, or the Zard. is also a big player in his series, so I don’t expect him to go. do seem too relevant to get the axe.

Honorable mentions: has made every game so far, but her popularity in the games and anime are gone by now. was also always a peripheral or an important character from Brawl’s story mode, but DHD makes a better rep for the Nintendo early days since more people know the character as a character and not a toy. is probably not going to get cut after two games, but his series does switch protagonists a lot. is also a two game vet, but with his previous gimmick gone, there’s not really an important reason to keep him around alone.

If I were to be conservative about cuts, since I don’t expect more than an updated port with a few extra characters, I’d expect to go and become alts again, and to need to be re-bought, but everyone else would come back without DLC. A more aggressive set of cuts would probably be the above, plus .

 

[Deleted member]

Disregarding total clones since they're extras anyway, I think the most likely cuts are as follows:



Nintendo will have a much harder time getting Cloud's rights than the other 3rd party characters, and the other two have already been cut before.

And then the characters in less danger of getting the axe but still aren't safe:



I could see 1 Mii returning (either Brawler, an amalgamation of the three, or a new moveset entirely), but the way they work now is dependent on custom moves, which might not even be a thing anymore. Wii Fit Trainer could die with the Wii brand. Corrin, despite being a popular lord from the best selling game in her franchise, is probably a low priority veteran. The 3rd party characters are just obligatory risks due to their status.

As for veterans, the most likely returnees are Wolf and Ice Climbers, but Wolf is more uncertain.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Well ff vii remake still hasn't been released yet and sakurai he was using cloud to hyped that game iirc which is doing square enix a favor.we'll see what happens.

 

[FunAtParties]

Well ff vii remake still hasn't been released yet and sakurai he was using cloud to hyped that game iirc which is doing square enix a favor.we'll see what happens.

I don't think he said that.

 

[roymustang1990-]

I don't think he said that.

Hmm yeah your right though it does seem like square enix is using the inclusion of cloud in smash four to build more interest for ff vii remake release.

 

[FunAtParties]

Hmm yeah your right though it does seem like square enix is using sakurai to hype up ff vii release.

Nah it's been a while but iirc Sakurai chose Cloud because he was the most popular FF choice during the ballot period, and FF requests were popular. Seems like something he just wanted to do, and you can't blame SE for saying yes, you know? Smash is a big deal, everyone wants their characters in Smash.

 

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

Here's my thoughts on the likelihood of a return

 

[FunAtParties]

Here's my thoughts on the likelihood of a returnView attachment 138408

I like the format

 

[Arthur97]

I guess I'm more of the persuasion of, instead of reducing the clones' status, Luigify them (except maybe Doc). What if they had cut Falco because he was a clone? Or even Luigi himself?

I also think Bayonetta is more secure than some people think if not just because of how cozy the series is with Nintendo. If a 3rd party is cut, it will probably be Cloud followed by Ryu.

I also think people are harsh on Robin despite having a rather unique moveset that few FE characters could properly represent due to the sword/magic combo. Anyone that could just isn't as popular.

 

[Banjodorf]

Here's my thoughts on the likelihood of a returnView attachment 138408

>Bowser 90%

But he’s one of the few characters we can 100% guess based on the character silhouettes.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Honorable mentions: has made every game so far, but her popularity in the games and anime are gone by now.

Didn't she appear in the anime again? Not sure to what extend, just heard about it.

Either way Jiggs has definitely seen darker days, every game there's always talk about how she could be cut due to not being relevant anymore, but then she makes it anyway, I don't see why it'd be any different now. She won the lottery when she was chosen to be playable in Smash 64 as it seems to have secured her future in the franchise.

 

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

To elaborate, there's basically no chance that any of the original 12 will be cut, so they're all in the "Guaranteed" category.

 

[Loungemen]

Here are my thoughts:

- Cloud, Ryu, and Dr. Mario will get cut
- Dr. Mario will be an alternate costume for Mario, so technically you can still play as him
- Dark Pit and Lucina will either be alternates for Pit and Marth respectively, or will be semi-clones
- Any existing Fire Emblem character will be scrapped if a new one takes its place. Or if the developers follow the popularity poll from summer of 2017, someone like Lyn will take Corrin's place

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Didn't she appear in the anime again? Not sure to what extend, just heard about it.

Yup, she is back, which was surprising for me.

 

[fogbadge]

animal crossing has become a large part of nintendo since its creation so it makes sense for it to have a fighter in smash


but im still worried theyll cut the villager

 

[True Blue Warrior]

- Any existing Fire Emblem character will be scrapped if a new one takes its place. Or if the developers follow the popularity poll from summer of 2017, someone like Lyn will take Corrin's place

I really doubt Corrin will be replaced, seeing as the only veteran that was replaced was Young Link, but with someone who was conceptually similar to him. If anything, he's more likely to just be cut due to hypothetically being low priority.

 

[GravelerChamp60]

I wouldnt mind seeing the clone trio making their way out or see them as alts.

The Miis and the wii fit trainer are questionable.

When it comes to FE i feel that the definite mainstays are no doubt to be Marth, Ike, and Robin. The other three are a tossup or DLC, but i think one of them definitely needs to go to make room .
Also Mario and Pokemon without a doubt deserve the most reps with 7-8 reps is well deserving seeing how they are still the most popular and best selling franchises. So i dont really see any Pokemon reps getting cut.

 

[eltacoenojado]

No cuts. Bring back Wolf and Ice Climbers. 5 to 6 new characters. That would be perfect .

 

[Megadoomer]

Here's my thoughts on the likelihood of a returnView attachment 138408

Not really sure what makes Bayonetta, Palutena, or Robin unlikely; Palutena and Robin are both incredibly unique and represent games that saved their franchises from obscurity (in Robin's case, Awakening saved the series from cancellation and turned it into a juggernaut of a franchise), and it seems odd to have an extended popularity poll with a ton of fanfare surrounding it only to cut the one character that was added from it in the very next game

I'd question Wii Fit Trainer as well; the only times that an entire series was removed from the Smash roster were a result of technical limitations or licensing issues, and Wii Fit Trainer has none of that.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I could see Pichu returning if the game was a port and they were looking for a really easy way to pad out the "new character" list.

If it's a brand new game I doubt Pichu would be a high priority. Veterans like Ice Climbers and Wolf will get preference.

 

[DNeon]

Anybody saying Greninja is likely to be cut for being from a previous generation is massively underestimating his popularity. In the anime he's practically reached pikachu level, and it's reflected in game with his 'ash' transformation.

 

[OctolingRift]

I think it's time for Pokemon Trainer to return, the only reason he wasn't in smash 4 was because of limitations on the 3DS. If we get Pokemon Trainer back then that's 2 additional Pokemon in one slot.

All I ask is they remove stamina and type effectiveness, then you basically saved 2 slots, that, and everyone gets to keep their normiezard

 

[CaptainAmerica]

All I ask is they remove stamina and type effectiveness, then you basically saved 2 slots, that, and everyone gets to keep their normiezard

I really want the trainer back too, but I really enjoyed those mechanics. It made the trainer unique.

Granted, it could have been way better. Type effectiveness is a bit meaningless when half the cast has fire attacks, but there's literally only one other water-type move, and nothing from grass, so the only time those mechanics affected Squirtle or the Zard was when you played a mirror match (I think one of the static spike things in the Emissary also had a water attack). That did unnecessarily cripple Ivysaur. The stamina was a good way to get switching to happen, since it wasn't ever a huge effect, and usually lasted about a single stock anyway.

I did enjoy the changing mechanic. This is actually one of the main reasons I want it back - there's no point to have them all share a slot if they're all different characters who are completely unconnected, and without that mechanic, there's nothing special about Squirtle or Ivysaur. Charizard is decently popular alone, but Squirtle's been overshadowed by all the other water-type starters, and nobody gives two ****s about the middle evolutions at all. It makes sense that, without the switching, only Charizard came back for SSB4.

I miss Squirtle...The three of them made such a great team, to the extent that I tried to get every team in the main series games to be grounded on Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard. I'd love to see them all come back!

 

[OctolingRift]

I miss Squirtle...The three of them made such a great team, to the extent that I tried to get every team in the main series games to be grounded on Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard. I'd love to see them all come back!

I miss Squirtile too, but smash babies hate transformations now for some reason. Hopefully Sakurai added Pokemon Trainer back (especially because he has a model in SSB4U they can use)

 

[KingDoop]

As a Corrin main it pains me to say she probably won't make it back. Fates wasn't very good and Corrin was a boring character. Had it been released before smash4 no one would have asked for her. So the only thing she has going for her is she's already a smash character. But I think they'll want to make room for a new FE character, and if they don't cut existing characters one day we'll have 10 FE reps

 

[DNeon]

I miss Squirtile too, but smash babies hate transformations now for some reason. Hopefully Sakurai added Pokemon Trainer back (especially because he has a model in SSB4U they can use)

'Smash babies' dislike it because Pokemon Trainer was the only case of people using more than one character and that only happened because they were forced to. If you're hampering your character in order to facilitate them losing a special move then something's wrong there. It's just a nightmare from a balance standpoint and generally unused so why have it when you can better flesh out a character with an additional special.

 

[Spinosaurus]

As a Corrin main it pains me to say she probably won't make it back. Fates wasn't very good and Corrin was a boring character. Had it been released before smash4 no one would have asked for her. So the only thing she has going for her is she's already a smash character. But I think they'll want to make room for a new FE character, and if they don't cut existing characters one day we'll have 10 FE reps

Fates was incredibly successful, and Corrin as a character has been fairly marketed and pushed for a reason even today.

Obviously the game and character are divisive, but I don't think it's fair to say they aren't really popular in their own right. The only reason Corrin would get cut is time constraints, but then they'd be a pretty easy DLC choice, unless there's some technical issues but that's doubtful.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

'Smash babies' dislike it because Pokemon Trainer was the only case of people using more than one character and that only happened because they were forced to. If you're hampering your character in order to facilitate them losing a special move then something's wrong there. It's just a nightmare from a balance standpoint and generally unused so why have it when you can better flesh out a character with an additional special.

I definitely wouldn't go around calling anyone 'Smash babies' for not liking certain mechanics. I fully realize everyone likes different play types. The great thing about Smash is that it's not made for just casuals or just the "Fox-only, No items, Final Destination" crowd.

Personally, I preferred the transformation since I did see it as a viable move. While it may make it tough for balance and usually people stick to a certain form, I thought it made those characters more interesting and fun to play. Then again, I do absolutely nothing competitive or tourney-like; I stick to the single player modes (another thing that I thought SSB4 lacked). For those who are interested in competitive playing, it may have been different if transformations were made instant so you could use benefits from both characters instead of Brawl's wait-a-while-to-get-punished-while-you-sit-there-and-glow, or if the different forms were a little closer together on the tier list and not like Zelda (second best <-> second worst)

After all, I've used Zelda in Melee adventure modes where Shiek took over when speed was needed, but I could play Zelda much better when I needed to fight. Having both made her incredibly powerful. Also, remember her specific Target Mode stage needed both forms? I did find that interesting, and taking that away does make her much more generic of a character for me. It'd be nice to have a way where we don't have to tell one group of fans that their way of playing is stupid and useless.

I think it could be a bit of a compromise if the transformations were left in, but use custom specials to remove them. Each character could be selected from the status screen, whether they shared a slot or not, so those of us who want them can have the mechanic, but those interested in tourneys could get a different tourney legal down-special for those characters. I'd be fine with removing the 'you have to use it' mechanic, but to keep 'you can use it' available.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Character switching is interesting, but it didn't really take off because it's hell to balance.

Zelda's fundamentally flawed lol. There was never a reason to use her outside of like very specific situations, because she's just bad all around. Even separated that's still the case.

Pokemon Trainer is more a case of, honestly, arguably justified balancing. Ivy's kinda niche, but both Squirtle and Charizard were pretty tight. The problem is that stamina mechanic and forced switching meant you were forced to use the other two in situations where they're likely far worse. But I mean, it makes sense, if those mechanics weren't a thing PT would be pretty godlike with few losing matchups since you could always just stick with the right Pokemon for the matchup. But those mechanics also made PT way more frustrating and difficult than he really should be.

I personally want them to revisit PT's concept, but like, I don't even know where I'd go about implementing it properly. Making Zard his own char was prolly the right move in the end, but shame he got gutted in the process anyway lol.

 

[Darkraid]

I really hope they don't bring Pokemon Trainer back. I want my Charizard to be a separate character. Those transformation characters can stay as separate characters as well.

 

[KingDoop]

Fates was incredibly successful, and Corrin as a character has been fairly marketed and pushed for a reason even today.

Obviously the game and character are divisive, but I don't think it's fair to say they aren't really popular in their own right. The only reason Corrin would get cut is time constraints, but then they'd be a pretty easy DLC choice, unless there's some technical issues but that's doubtful.

Not to derail this thread into a Fates discussion...but I do want to point out there's a difference between being financially successful and actually being liked. Did Fates sell well on it's own merit? Or was it because Smash advertised it? Or maybe it was simply because it was the game that came after Awakening.


But the quality of Fates is actually the secondary issue for Corrin in smash 5. Unlike Nintendo's other franchises, FE changes protagonists every game. As such, each new generation of fans will want their favorite in smash. At some point, Sakurai won't be able to keep adding FE characters. So who doesn't make it? The past characters or the current ones? Will the protagonist of Fire Emblem Switch make it in? What about the one after that?


So....yeah. In summary: too many fire emblem characters. Someone has to go to make room for future ones, and I just don't think Corrin is as popular as high sales make it seem

 

[Runic_SSB]

Not really sure what makes [...] Palutena [...] Unlikely

The possibility that custom moves won't return and the backlash against Kid Icarus saturation. I'm not saying she'll be cut, but there's reason to speculate.

 

[BlazGreen]

I highly doubt they'll be any cuts this time and if there are it'll be due to licensing issues. One important fact that people seem to gloss over is that we now have HD models of all the characters making it much easier to bring them over compared with previous entries. Even with the jump from Brawl to Smash 4 we only lost

Licensing issues/ The whole Kojima affair
Technical limitations
Potentially another victim of technical limitations since transformations were cut and we'd end up 8 Pokemon reps, 6 of which would be gen 1.
The only cut that can't be explained.

The clones took a fraction of the time to make compared the rest of the Smash 4 newcomers so there isn't any real reason to remove them especially since bringing them over will be an easy job anyway.

 

[NintenRob]

I think if they decide to scrap customization, which I think is quite possible due to how it was poorly handled, the Mii characters are likely cuts or to be reworked. Especially if you look at the last 3 in 1 character Pokemon Trainer.

I also think we might lose

The clone trio
Cloud
Another Fire Emblem character, possibly Corrin.

 

[Megadoomer]

I figure that, if any Fire Emblem character is going to go, it would be Roy.

Marth, Robin, Ike, and Corrin are likely staying; Sakurai doesn't like cutting characters, since he's aware that they all have their fans, and it seems like that would especially apply for unique characters, who couldn't be easily replaced by the people who play as them.

Between Lucina and Roy, Lucina's popularity is noteworthy enough that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems insisted that she should be included in Fire Emblem Warriors, while Roy was added because he was the most popular Melee veteran who wasn't already in Smash 4 and could be added without technical issues.

This means that he was more popular than Pichu and Young Link. (or possibly just Pichu, if Toon Link is considered an update for Young Link) That's... not exactly a high bar to pass.

That's just my two cents, of course.

 

[SuperPhil64]

I hope If they are building off of SmashWiiU's base that they won't cut anybody however I could see them cut & but even then I'm not sure. I think that Nintendo might legit want them to keep the full WiiU roster just for the fact that they made amiibos for every character and they probably don't want to make people feel like they bought certain amiibos for nothing.

 

[Mario123311]

I figure that, if any Fire Emblem character is going to go, it would be Roy.

Marth, Robin, Ike, and Corrin are likely staying; Sakurai doesn't like cutting characters, since he's aware that they all have their fans, and it seems like that would especially apply for unique characters, who couldn't be easily replaced by the people who play as them.

Between Lucina and Roy, Lucina's popularity is noteworthy enough that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems insisted that she should be included in Fire Emblem Warriors, while Roy was added because he was the most popular Melee veteran who wasn't already in Smash 4 and could be added without technical issues.

This means that he was more popular than Pichu and Young Link. (or possibly just Pichu, if Toon Link is considered an update for Young Link) That's... not exactly a high bar to pass.

That's just my two cents, of course.

Lucina and Roy are the only ones most likely to get the ax IMO, Especially Lucina though whom is one of the most unpopular clones in Smash 4 besides Dark Pit. (at most they will probably domote her to an alt costume like intended with how much more tech capabilities the Switch has) Doc is also fairly in danger for that matter considering, despite retaining his Melee moveset - he had his physics nerfed beyond belief and his recovery is non-existent compared to the oversight in coding for Melee.