What veteran would you change move set wise?

[firebro17]

Ever since Smash 64 most veterans have gotten some kind of tweak to their moveset. In smash 4 however I am seeing less characters getting tweaks which is frustrating me. Especially Mario's down B being the F.L.U.D.D AGAIN! So with that being said, what veteran so far that has been comfirm would you change up a little bit? Reasons could be for the character to be stronger, to reference a certain game like Luigi's vacum from luigis mansion dark moon, or just for no reason. I'm curious of what the community thinks.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sonic - Give him something else other than just rolls and spins.
Wario - Inject a perfect balance of WarioWare and Wario Land into his moveset.
Ganondorf - Give him a moveset akin to a mixture of Ike and Zelda. A slow sword and magic user.
Luigi - Further divide him for Mario.
Wolf - See Luigi but wih Fox in Mario's place.
Toon Link - Keep him, but give him a few moves based around his own games to keep him further apart from Link.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Yeah Mario and FLUDD *shudders* I was hoping for a galaxy reference now. Maybe Jiggs could get some fairy moves to make her more relevant.

 

[TewnLeenk]

For sure Toon Link.

There's Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks items and moves that they could have given him to make him original...but they didn't. When I first unlocked him in Brawl I thought FOR SURE his Final Smash was going to be a giant cyclone he summons with the Wind Waker. But no, it was the exact same thing as Link's.

Why wasn't his Up B the Deku Leaf from WW? Where was the Skull Hammer, Fire/Ice arrows, grappling hook? Hell, the only time he actually used the Wind Waker was in a taunt. What about the Whirlwind, Sand Wand or Whip from Spirit tracks? He had so much potential to be unique, but none was used.

Toon Link is still my favorite character, but he could have been so much more.

 

[Hong]

I think Ness needs a Bowser-treatment.

Ness started off strong in SSB64, but as players got better he started to plummet in the tier list. He was even worse in Melee, and they tried to fix him in Brawl by tweaking some numbers and sending him out the door.

It's not going to work.

Sometimes you can't just add a little speed here, a little damage there. Some moves are fundamentally flawed in a given environment. The Mother series characters don't age well as the competition improves. First and foremost is their range is poor. They are easy to defend against, easy to attack, and have a recovery that is easy to gimp. Compared to other characters with short reach like Mario or Jiggs, they don't have the tools (fireballs, cape) or qualities (ground speed, aerial speed) to get in or have control. I would scrap Lucas and give his best qualities to Ness.

Converge PK Flash with Pk Thunder: PK Flash would travel much faster and you would control it much like you would PK Thunder, and you can detonate it or cancel it by shielding. It could still be used as a back-up recovery option by hitting his butt.
Replace the existing PK Thunder with PK Teleport,a world-wrapping recovery that requires you to be mindful of walls.
Do SOMETHING to give Ness more control. Poor kid has poor defensive and offensive options. I would outright consider giving him Lucas's forward and upper aerial attacks.

Aside from that, many of his properties can stay. His weight class is alright, and strong grab options are a nice quality.

Ness and Kirby are characters I feel need to be re-envisioned. If you look at someone such as Link, he is a character who has an ideal set of strengths and weaknesses and his moves are fine, but require much needed tuning as opposed to a rework. A bit more speed, projectile lethality, a better boomerang, etc. As a Link player, I am fine with having abysmal recovery, but I like how in SSB64 I could outright kill someone who is recovering with well-timed bombs and boomerangs. Eye for an eye.

 

[Lemonwater]

Mario - Mario Tornado for down+B again, then give him a new d-air. Or change his FLUDD to some sort of other special move. Or improve the FLUDD.
Luigi - Make him weirder. Give him the Poltergust and let him summon ghosts from it to attack.
Link - Change his Gale Boomerang or increase Gale Boomerang's consistency, range, and damage. Make Spin Attack a better recovery move. Change dash attack back to the N64 one but with less lingering time. Make his stronger attacks launch a bit further. Make grounded Spin Attack increase in range and have more of a horizontal trajectory of launch as it is charged.
Kirby - Change dash attack to the flaming impact from Melee (but increase its power and decrease the lag). Pretty much just a cosmetic change.
Samus - Power up both versions of the missiles. Make supermissiles capable of killing at high damage again. Increase homing missile range slightly.
Zelda - Make her attacks harder to DI out of. Make her and Shiek separate characters. Give her a new down+B.
Shiek - Make her a separate character from Zelda. Give her a new down+B.
Ganondorf - Give him a new moveset in which he uses his sword and magic. Increase his power to make up for his lack of speed and agility.
Captain Falcon - Give him the N64 d-air. Increase the priority on all his moves and give them better hit areas. Falcon Kick resets the second jump again.
Marth - Power up his Double Edge Dance but make it slower (but still combo-able). Give Shield Breaker the same animation as Melee's.
Ness - Change his PK Thunder to something else, or at least make it so that it passes through enemies and projectiles and platforms.
DK - Give him a new forward+B. Alter Giant Punch to not send him into helpless state if used in the air.
Bowser - Give him a new down+B since the hip drop was first Yoshi's.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have had the same moveset for too long.

So I propose giving Captain Falcon an F-Zero racer on a stick that he swings like an axe.

I always thought it would be nice if Kirby's Down B special was chargeable; gradually transforming him into larger objects for more damage.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Why do people want to get rid of FLUDD so much? It's a significant part of Mario's history. In other games in the main series he's had power-ups that he can gain and lose at a moment's notice, but Super Mario Sunshine is the first game in the main series where he has been tied down to a certain "power-up." In Sunshine, FLUDD is almost ALWAYS with Mario. It wouldn't make sense not to at least let him have it for ONE measly move in Smash 4 when it can do so much more outside of Smash. I know it wasn't very useful in Brawl, but Sakurai could make the move useful in this game if he wanted to.

To answer your question OP: Gannondorf.

 

[GaiusK]

Mario: Change FLUDD. I think his tornado is good as his dair, so, something else. Definitely needs a better final smash, but I can't think of anything.
Luigi: Poltergust, as whatever. Preferably as his down-b, so his tornado leaves. I'm good with his final smash, but something better than that is always welcome.

Bowser - Give him a new down+B since the hip drop was first Yoshi's.

Link: Either better bow, or better boomerang. His final smash is also good, but something more of a reference to a game.
Toon Link: Own moveset based on WW, PH and SW and maybe Minish Cap.
Samus: Her final smash not forcing her to go into ZSS.
ZSS: Different down-b, but something that can still be used as an alternative for recovery. Different final smash.
Zelda/Sheik: Make them separate characters, giving them both a new down-b, and a new final smash for Sheik.
Ganondorf: Own moveset. Only magic, only power or both. I'd be thankful for anything.
Captain Falcon: Better final smash. Can be the same one, but with more power.
Wario: More realiable up-b as recovery.
Jigglypuff: I'm ok with its moveset, but now it's a Fairy type, might throw in something. Different final smash?
Lucas/Ness: Never played Mother 2 nor Mother 3, but something to differentiate them.
Fox/Falco/Wolf: Fox and Falco are good as they're, but a different moveset would be very appreciated. Wolf simply needs to be totally different. Also different final smashes for all 3.

I think that's all.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

Meh...the FLUDD is good. My friend main'd Mario. Gimped me many of times with that stupid thing. I'm sure it received a buff this time as well to make it even better.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have had the same moveset for too long.

So I propose giving Captain Falcon an F-Zero racer on a stick that he swings like an axe.

I always thought it would be nice if Kirby's Down B special was chargeable; gradually transforming him into larger objects for more damage.

"LET'S GIVE CAPTAIN FALCON THE WEAPON, BUT LEAVE GANON ARMLESS"

 

[Phan7om]

Mario: Have his Utaunt have a chance to make him big like he ate a super mushroom, but only be able to do it once a match, Dr. Mario Fair
Luigi: Make him faster, Melee Fair
Link: Better recovery, Give the bombs more knockback.
DK: Power up his throws, Give cargo throw combo-bility
Bowser: Make him heavier (yes i know hes the heaviest in Brawl), Power up his smashes.
Kirby: Increase inhale range, change Nair
Samus: Change/Alter Down-B in some way.
Fox: Jump cancelable shines
Pikachu: Melee Uair
------------
Jiggs: Bigger sing range, Power up rest.
C.Falcon: Melee knee, Power up Up-B
Ganon: Make him faster, bigger grab range, more split from C.Falcon
Ness: Better recovery, Power up smashes.
Zelda/Sheik: Zelda- Better Lightning Kick, Both- Faster transformation, Sheik- Melee Fair
Yoshi: Make him Faster, Better Side-B, Melee D-Tilt
Sonic: Faster HA, Better/more kill moves.
-------------
Mewtwo: Heavier, Faster, Power up throws, Power up Smashes, Power up Shadow Ball
Roy: Power Up Smashes & Aerials
Game&Watch: Better Neutral B
R.O.B: Better Side-B
Lucario: Up-B hitbox

*I know there are characters I left off, meaning I think they are good as is.*

 

[Renji64]

The fludd has to go it is useless and stupid. I rather have his melee down B back or a galaxy move. I'm hoping the fludd was a placeholder move that would really make me dissapoitned as a guy who mains mario to have to deal with that useless move agian..

 

[GaiusK]

The fludd has to go it is useless and stupid. I rather have his melee down B back or a galaxy move. I'm hoping the fludd was a placeholder move that would really make me dissapoitned as a guy who mains mario to have to deal with that useless move agian..

As some people here said, they wouldn't have gone through the whole process of rendering a new FLUDD if it was a placeholder. We're stuck with the FLUDD, let's just hope not an useless FLUDD like brawl's.

 

[Hong]

Yeah... FLUDD is a case where a move can be fixed by changing its effectiveness. The Down + B is supposed to be a more technical or utility-based move. That is probably the reason it was changed in Brawl. If you can outright wreck someone's recovery with a well-aimed FLUDD, I think it would be an awesome move. Just because it sucked in one game, that doesn't mean you have to scrap it. If it is designed right, it should force people to recover very low to avoid a gimp, giving an expert Mario a lot of power and control.

 

[Accf124]

Diddy Kong: Give his Up Special more mobility(similar to pits),Make his peanut pop gun go straight, and change his side special(feels last minuted)

Wario: I guess make his moves based on Wario land.

Mario: Continue the trend of changing one move in all the games.

Samus: Make her seem more Other M
Example) Heavier, more agile, and make her feel less stationary.

 

[Uffe]

Mario: Probably give him something out of Mario Galaxy. Never played the game, but I trust they're better than F.L.U.D.D.

Luigi: To further divide him from Mario, give him some Luigi's Mansion items. Give him the vacuum and the flashlight that stuns enemies.

Link: Better recovery.

DK: Power up his throws, Give cargo throw combo-bility

Bowser: Make him stronger, and heavier to last longer.

Kirby: Make him able to copy even item power-ups. For example, eating a Fire Flower gives him fire power. Doesn't matter if he gets a Mario or Bowser hat from it.

Samus: Make her as heavy as Snake was for one. Her armor is metal after all. With her Charge Shot fully charged, maybe give her down B a 5 bomb drop like they had it in Super Metroid. Also, make her bombs explode when an opponent touches them. I didn't like how they changed that in Brawl.

Fox: Don't know. Annoying Blaster like in 64?

Pikachu: Don't know.

Yoshi: Out of Shield this time around. Also, give him his Black and White Yoshi color scheme.

Jigglypuff: Make Rest strong again.

C.Falcon: Give him back his Knee of Justice. It didn't live up to its name in Brawl.

Ness: Quicker PK Flash, PK Thunder Cancellation like Snake's Nikita, harder to escape PK Fire.

Ganondorf: Running, please. None of this jogging nonsense like in Brawl. Give him an energy ball that splits into five once charged like in Ocarina of Time. Make his down B a ground pound, like in Ocarina of Time. Keep the new look, but for Pete's sake, give him Ocarina of Time movesets!

Zelda/Sheik: Zelda- Better Lightning Kick, Both- Faster transformation, Sheik- Melee Fair

Toon Link: Assuming they keep him, give him a Magical Boomerang that I guess homes in on opponents, Remote Bombs that injure the opponent when thrown, but only capable of blowing up when you set them off yourself or if they're struck by an attack. The Final Smash should be Four Sword Links.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

The fludd has to go it is useless and stupid. I rather have his melee down B back or a galaxy move. I'm hoping the fludd was a placeholder move that would really make me dissapoitned as a guy who mains mario to have to deal with that useless move agian..

I'd like it if the FLUDD could use its 3 different forms. Use Down B to get it out, and when it's out it changes his three other moves. That would be neat.

 

[Renji64]

The move is too campy i don't sitting and waiting i usually try to go for a spike i rather have something else.

 

[Networker1]

Mario: replace the cape maybe? I dunno
Link: improve the jumps, make Forward-B the beetle (like snake's missile... sorta)
Kirby: instead of copying other people, make him able to switch between copy forms (super star would be good source material)
Samus: I'll admit I really don't like the Down-B, maybe change that and her d-air
Fox/Falco: new side-b for Falco and Arwing final smash perhaps?
Wolf: replace final smash with... something
Pikachu: total revamp of his B moves... I hate Pikachu
Luigi: make more different from Mario
Olimar: stronger ground fighter maybe
Cap. Falcon: I think he is good
MK: slow it down!!
Marth: slow down his side-b
Ike: up all speed a little

 

[Scorpy571]

Especially Mario's down B being the F.L.U.D.D AGAIN!

Like many peoples have already said, Mario should be able to use the FLUDD for recovery. He can use it as a jetpack in Sunshine so why not in Smash? I don't think it would be too ridiculous while you have characters that can freely fly across the map(or almost anyway..) and it's not like Mario is a fast power house character.. It doesn't need to be a huge push that propels him halfway across the screen. It could even be like Peach's overing but not as good..

 

[moneyfrenzy]

Ok enough bashing on the fludd, we should talk about the real problem, GANONDORF

 

[Kevandre]

Mario: replace the cape maybe? I dunno

Sakurai, if you read this don't listen. The cape is the only reason that Mario is so awesome. Otherwise just Luigi. Cape is the best

 

[ImaClubYou]

I agree with Toon Link.

He could've had a pseudo float like Peach going on with the Leaf.

I'd change Fox honestly. I wouldn't mind him ditching his absurdly attained karate skills and go full on tech.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

De-clone Ganondorf, nuff said.

Aside from Ganondorf, Luigi-fy Toon Link, and give Lucario a more interesting moveset.

 

[TumblrFamous]

De-clone Ganondorf, nuff said.

Aside from Ganondorf, Luigi-fy Toon Link, and give Lucario a more interesting moveset.

I agree. Make Lucario actually feel like a fighting type. Other than that, buff Zelda, nerf Meta Knight, and buff Peach up a bit. She was needed in Brawl, I want at least one more decent finisher. I don't know, its just preference.

As for Toon Link, they don't have to change his special moves, just give them different properties. Fire/Ice arrows, Magic Boomerang, etc.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I agree. Make Lucario actually feel like a fighting type. Other than that, buff Zelda, nerf Meta Knight, and buff Peach up a bit. She was needed in Brawl, I want at least one more decent finisher. I don't know, its just preference.

As for Toon Link, they don't have to change his special moves, just give them different properties. Fire/Ice arrows, Magic Boomerang, etc.

I'd actually love it though if he used some other items from WW in his moveset, like the Skull Hammer for example.

Lucario didn't feel like a fighter type, and his moveset was very bland overall, to me at least.

 

[Tybis]

For sure Toon Link.

There's Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks items and moves that they could have given him to make him original...but they didn't. When I first unlocked him in Brawl I thought FOR SURE his Final Smash was going to be a giant cyclone he summons with the Wind Waker. But no, it was the exact same thing as Link's.

Why wasn't his Up B the Deku Leaf from WW? Where was the Skull Hammer, Fire/Ice arrows, grappling hook? Hell, the only time he actually used the Wind Waker was in a taunt. What about the Whirlwind, Sand Wand or Whip from Spirit tracks? He had so much potential to be unique, but none was used.

Toon Link is still my favorite character, but he could have been so much more.

You have no idea how much I'd like Skull Hammer as Fsmash.

 

[PikaJew]

Ganondorf needs to be tweaked.
His Warlock Punch should function as a projectile too. Functions the same as it does now, but the purple magic around his fist shoots out a bit.
His side b needs to be replaced with his magical sword. He slams the sword down (like Ike's side smash) with it covered in purple magic. But this has the power to reflect projectiles.
His down b can stay the same, but when used in the air, hitting the ground causes a magic burst (like Ike's neutral b)
His up B can be a mixture between Fox and Marth's, where he jumps up with his sword engulfed in purple magic.

Toon Link needs to incorporate more Windwaker moves into his arsenal.
His hook shot needs to be replaced with grappling hook.
His boomerang needs more speed and knock back.
His bombs are fine (love the explosion animation)
Normal b turns into Deku leaf. He flaps it to send out a huge air bubble that pushes fighters and items back and weakens some projectiles. Deals no damage unless they are hit with the actual leaf.
Up b Windwaker Cyclone where he uses his powers to summon a cyclone that lifts him up where he can then float back down with the Deku leaf (floats like Peach's parasol)


Yoshi needs some new moves, and Baby Mario riding on his back.
Yoshi is a dwindling character. He was a force to be reckon with in 64, but since has sort of slipped under the radar.
He needs a new overhaul to give people a reason to want to play as him.
Let's start with Baby Mario.
With the baby on his back he'll have a completely new look (a more familiar one to his games)
Baby Mario doesn't really do much, but it's important that he stay on Yoshi's back. He helps Yoshi become quicker and stronger.
If Yoshi is hit enough or Baby Mario is hit directly hard enough, he will fall off into a bubble, and if Yoshi doesn't retrieve him in a certain time limit those things come and take him away and he won't come back until Yoshi dies (or gets a new item that rejoins tandem teams like bringing Nana back from the dead for Ice Climbers)
Yoshi's neutral b stays the same, but now he can swallow items, which turn into eggs that follow him around. He can have up to 3.
His side b is replaced with Yoshi's Island egg throw. Where he holds the egg and has a cursor moving in front of him. Releasing b fires the egg.
Items he swallows either stay in tact, or their properties are activated.
Throwing an egg containing a home run bat will hit as if he threw the bat at a fighter.
An egg with a Freezie will freeze opponent on impact.
Bob-omb egg will explode.
A motion sensor bomb will set once the egg pops.
Yoshi's down b stays the same, except the stars he creates on impact stick around long enough to swallow one to make an egg.
That way you won't be at a disadvantage in a no item match.
When swallowing opponents you can use egg throw quickly to toss your opponent so they explode in the air.
He can now tether recover with his tongue, but only with his in air grab. His neutral b still acts the same around ledges.
His second jump is now replaced with his flutter jump from Yoshi's Island. He can use it 3 more times after the initial second jump (4 flutters in total), but he doesn't gain any vertical distance after the initial second jump. He can still travel a decent horizontal distance.
His up b is now his wings from Super Mario World which work similar to Pit's up b. When Baby Mario is on his back for this he uses his cape to increase the moves speed and distance.
Final smash is Super Baby Mario. Yoshi takes a break and turns into an egg that follows the caped super baby as he runs across the battle field. He can run up walls, is completely invincible and can use his cape jump for more distance and parachute down. He can still hurt enemies so it's like Sonic's final smash.

Let's face it, Yoshi will probably never be used by you "tournament" players, so why not make him an incredibly technical character with insane recovery?
Everyone would be excited to try that Yoshi out.

 

[Norm]

Give Gannon his own move set utilizing his sword and magic.

Yoshi - Down b - poop eggs: Yoshi poops out eggs up to six that follow him around.

B - Egg toss: the cross air pops up and moves just like in yoshi's island. If you're hit you drop the egg, ducking cancels it, and you can still move and jump but no other attacks. When you let go of B he tosses the egg.

Left/right B - swallow: Same as current B move only now you have the option of tossing the character trapped in the egg that Yoshi poops out. It doesn't go as far as normal eggs but does more damage and hurts the character turned into the egg.

Up B - Flutter super sit: Yoshi does a high flutter jump. Once at his peak he spins and does the super sit this give Yoshi an actual recovery move and still lets him keep the super sit.

Link desperately need better recovery.

 

[[Corn]]

Ganondorf: Whole revised moveset, but he needs his electrical nipple spike.
Yoshi: Flutterkick recovery Up B, can be used multiple times but gains no signifigant vertical distance.
Snake: Fix his hitboxes and slow his nades down do like 3 frames pull out.
Falcon: Depends on physics.
Pikachu: Keep QAC at all costs.
Olimar: With only 3 Pikmin needs increased recovery, consider suiciding Pikmin to gain height.
Mario: Some recent Mario abilities. Spin midair side B like Galaxy/New Mario, Can Cape Glide somehow, Can change Fludd Nozels somehow, and faster fireball.
Luigi: Add something from Luigis Mansion.

 

[moneyfrenzy]

Change lucario and jigglypuffs side special's, they just didnt feel like a special move.
hoping to see mega lucario in some way
If toon link returns just give him a nearly complete overhual, same with ganondorf.
falco needs some different special moves
I really want zero suit samus to fill up her own slot instead of sharing samus
Luigi should have his grabs be the pulterguist
make zelda useable...
make link faster

 

[Kevandre]

Yoshi needs some new moves, and Baby Mario riding on his back.
Yoshi is a dwindling character. He was a force to be reckon with in 64, but since has sort of slipped under the radar.
He needs a new overhaul to give people a reason to want to play as him.
Let's start with Baby Mario.
With the baby on his back he'll have a completely new look (a more familiar one to his games)
Baby Mario doesn't really do much, but it's important that he stay on Yoshi's back. He helps Yoshi become quicker and stronger.
If Yoshi is hit enough or Baby Mario is hit directly hard enough, he will fall off into a bubble, and if Yoshi doesn't retrieve him in a certain time limit those things come and take him away and he won't come back until Yoshi dies (or gets a new item that rejoins tandem teams like bringing Nana back from the dead for Ice Climbers)
Yoshi's neutral b stays the same, but now he can swallow items, which turn into eggs that follow him around. He can have up to 3.
His side b is replaced with Yoshi's Island egg throw. Where he holds the egg and has a cursor moving in front of him. Releasing b fires the egg.
Items he swallows either stay in tact, or their properties are activated.
Throwing an egg containing a home run bat will hit as if he threw the bat at a fighter.
An egg with a Freezie will freeze opponent on impact.
Bob-omb egg will explode.
A motion sensor bomb will set once the egg pops.
Yoshi's down b stays the same, except the stars he creates on impact stick around long enough to swallow one to make an egg.
That way you won't be at a disadvantage in a no item match.
When swallowing opponents you can use egg throw quickly to toss your opponent so they explode in the air.
He can now tether recover with his tongue, but only with his in air grab. His neutral b still acts the same around ledges.
His second jump is now replaced with his flutter jump from Yoshi's Island. He can use it 3 more times after the initial second jump (4 flutters in total), but he doesn't gain any vertical distance after the initial second jump. He can still travel a decent horizontal distance.
His up b is now his wings from Super Mario World which work similar to Pit's up b. When Baby Mario is on his back for this he uses his cape to increase the moves speed and distance.
Final smash is Super Baby Mario. Yoshi takes a break and turns into an egg that follows the caped super baby as he runs across the battle field. He can run up walls, is completely invincible and can use his cape jump for more distance and parachute down. He can still hurt enemies so it's like Sonic's final smash.

Let's face it, Yoshi will probably never be used by you "tournament" players, so why not make him an incredibly technical character with insane recovery?
Everyone would be excited to try that Yoshi out.

Dude, just... This. At first I was like "no" but, really? I dig this idea a lot. It would suck if I mained Yoshi and liked him as is but as someone who's pretty meh about him, I'd get really excited on this one.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Let's face it, Yoshi will probably never be used by you "tournament" players, so why not make him an incredibly technical character with insane recovery?
Everyone would be excited to try that Yoshi out.

I wouldn't, I like Yoshi as he is, as long as they can fix his recovery to be better, buff his shield, make his tongue able to tether and buff his grab. Just because he isn't used by tournament players doesn't mean he isn't a fun and good character, which I think he is. I've never supported the Baby Mario idea either, it'd be like having Waddle Dee be playable while Dedede can throw Waddle Dees. It's just too odd to have Mario as two characters, let alone it'd make Yoshi feel like a vehicle. The lack of Baby Mario also helps Yoshi feel distinguished from the Mario franchise, they might aswell just throw the Mushroom icon under his name if they put Baby Mario in it. Plus, no one likes Baby Mario in the Yoshi's Island games either

 

[PikaJew]

I wouldn't, I like Yoshi as he is, as long as they can fix his recovery to be better, buff his shield, make his tongue able to tether and buff his grab. Just because he isn't used by tournament players doesn't mean he isn't a fun and good character, which I think he is. I've never supported the Baby Mario idea either, it'd be like having Waddle Dee be playable while Dedede can throw Waddle Dees. It's just too odd to have Mario as two characters, let alone it'd make Yoshi feel like a vehicle. The lack of Baby Mario also helps Yoshi feel distinguished from the Mario franchise, they might aswell just throw the Mushroom icon under his name if they put Baby Mario in it. Plus, no one likes Baby Mario in the Yoshi's Island games either

Have you ever played a Yoshi game....
Baby Mario IS Yoshi.
There wouldn't be a Mushroom Kingdom icon because Baby Mario was first introduced in a Yoshi game.
That's not a valid argument because Young Link and Link were both playable.
How does this have anything to do with Waddle Dee?

Yoshi's Story and his original Yoshi game are about the only Yoshi series games where Baby Mario isn't on his back.
It's iconic, and represents what Yoshi is.
He is the trusty steed.
He was responsible enough to reunite some lost little baby with his parents.
I think it would be incredibly cool if they took that route.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Have you ever played a Yoshi game....
Baby Mario IS Yoshi.
There wouldn't be a Mushroom Kingdom icon because Baby Mario was first introduced in a Yoshi game.
That's not a valid argument because Young Link and Link were both playable.

Yoshi's Story and his original Yoshi game are about the only Yoshi series games where Baby Mario isn't on his back.
It's iconic, and represents what Yoshi is.
He is the trusty steed.
He was responsible enough to reunite some lost little baby with his parents.
I think it would be incredibly cool if they took that route.

I've played the original Yoshi's Island a gazillion times, and I've also finished Yoshi's Island DS.

What I like about Yoshi in Smash Bros is exactly that he stands on his own. Yoshi does all the hard work in Yoshi's Island, so it's very unfair to say that Baby Mario is Yoshi. Baby Mario is the plot device, the thing which starts the conflict in the story, but he's not more than that. Yoshi's Island is Yoshi's adventure, not Mario's in the slightest, he's more of a burden than anything else. Yoshi's Island really paints Yoshi in a good way, and I think he deserves to be in Smash Bros without Baby Mario, because he can stand on his own, and is supposed to stand on his own, he doesn't need someone else to be able to be here.

And yes, Baby Mario was introduced in Yoshi's Island (which was actually Super Mario World 2), but he is still Mario, and Mario was introduced in... well the Mario series obviously. Your argument on that doesn't really hold ground, it's like saying that Wario should be considered a Mario character because he originated in a Mario game. Wario, just like Yoshi, went on to get his own series and become something else. Heck, even Yoshi originated in the Mario series.

To me, Yoshi is much more than a steed. Just because Mario is on his back doesn't mean he's just a steed, he's the actual hero of Yoshi's Island. He isn't a sidekick, he isn't like Epona is to Link, Yoshi is the hero in his series, putting him down to become nothing more than a steed would be shameful and quite offensive to his character.

And as you might imagine, I wasn't a fan of Young Link in Melee either.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I don't like drastically changing moves or replacing moves, but I'll make an exception to Toon Link since Young Link is the original Link clone anyway.

Bowser - Give him a new down+B since the hip drop was first Yoshi's.

Lol. Bowser used that move in Super Mario Bros 3, which came out before Yoshi even existed.

Ganondorf needs to be tweaked.
His Warlock Punch should function as a projectile too. Functions the same as it does now, but the purple magic around his fist shoots out a bit.

Pretty much this, except the way I imagined it would be that you could either wait and let him release the powerful punch like normal, or press B early and have him shoot the energy as a weaker electricity-based dark magic projectile. (Dead Man's Volley)

I certainly welcome new moves, but only if they are added alongside the old ones (new diagonal B attacks, for example) and not replace any old moves.

----

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Ganondorf needs to be tweaked.
His Warlock Punch should function as a projectile too. Functions the same as it does now, but the purple magic around his fist shoots out a bit.
His side b needs to be replaced with his magical sword. He slams the sword down (like Ike's side smash) with it covered in purple magic. But this has the power to reflect projectiles.
His down b can stay the same, but when used in the air, hitting the ground causes a magic burst (like Ike's neutral b)
His up B can be a mixture between Fox and Marth's, where he jumps up with his sword engulfed in purple magic.

I'd rather his Side-Special stay.

I'd prefer if he had an energy ball as his Neutral-Special, which can be aimed.

I like your idea for his Up-Special, he should use his sword.

Not sure what I would do for his Down-Special though.

I personally think the only moves that should stay are moves that he DIDN'T borrow from Falcon, and Flame Choke, since the only similarity it has to Raptor Boost (Falcon's Side-S) in Brawl is the how the move starts and ends if it DOESN'T grab someone.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganondorf
Link
Mario

OT: Trash TL and include a new Zelda Character instead.

 

[TumblrFamous]

All I really hope for is that Zelda is competitively viable. I sex her in Melee and Brawl, but she is pretty bad. Make her heavier and stronger, with more priority.

EDIT: I sex her? How did it go from main to sex like that? Oh well, too funny to change now.