What techniques should a new competitive player learn before they decide to enter tournaments??

roysrevengefgc

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#1
Evening everyone, I just started playing smash on a competitive level and I want to make sure I am honing the appropriate techniques. With so many techniques and information out there, it's hard to decide what's useful in competitive play and what's not wasting your time. Any recommendations on a list of various absolutely necessary techniques I should practice and master before taking competitive play seriously?
 
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roysrevengefgc

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#7
Fundamentals>Tech.
Always.
Tech is not extremely important for a very large majority of the characters.
If you had to choose between opting to be proficient at tech or being proficient at your fundamentals in the game you should never opt for the first one.
much appreciated, couldn't agree more!
 

Bl4z1ng1k3

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#8
Learn to Dash dance. Doing so can trick opponents into coming after you and you can punish with turnaround grabs. if you know grab combos this can really help. But also learn to focus on the player and their play style. Cause you don't know if it could be a unique one. That is my advice to you. :)
 
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#10
And remember, it's not about just learning how to use tech. It's utilizing it during matches. I see a lot of people use perfect pivoting, but never effectively, let alone at all during matches while their opponent is on the stage. They tend to just do it to show off, as if it means you're suddenly a professional player. However, during GTX of this year, MkLeo used perfect pivoting effectively. So really, you can learn as many techniques as you wish, but it won't mean anything if you don't use them.

Directional influence is also an important tech to use. It helps you survive longer against attacks that would have otherwise killed you. In Sm4sh, there is an animation where you'll see red lightning (I think it's dependent on what player you are). This indicates that you're going to die. However, DI can prevent that, even if the red lightning shows up. If you're going to fight Bayonetta (and you will most likely bump into this character), you'll want to practice smash directional influence (SDI). Here's a video about the two below.

 

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#11
Fundamentals>Tech.
Always.
Tech is not extremely important for a very large majority of the characters.
If you had to choose between opting to be proficient at tech or being proficient at your fundamentals in the game you should never opt for the first one.
I absolutely agree with this statement. Teching in Smash Bros indeed useful, but if you cannot use it intuitively, then what is the point using it. After starting to play smash in 2008 and have never been to a tournament or weekly, I still cannot utilize tech skills despite practicing them a lot. However, the important thing to remember is to be skilled with the character you main, studying the matchups, and to do what is best for your playstyle. As for myself, I tend to focus on attacking quickly, finding quick and easy combos, using my grabs wisely, and setting up kill moves.
 
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#12
I absolutely agree with this statement. Teching in Smash Bros indeed useful, but if you cannot use it intuitively, then what is the point using it. After starting to play smash in 2008 and have never been to a tournament or weekly, I still cannot utilize tech skills despite practicing them a lot. However, the important thing to remember is to be skilled with the character you main, studying the matchups, and to do what is best for your playstyle. As for myself, I tend to focus on attacking quickly, finding quick and easy combos, using my grabs wisely, and setting up kill moves.
Don’t forget these concepts though:






https://smashboards.com/guides/neutral-game-basics-understanding-controlling-space.791/

Fundamentals are a loooooot deeper than that, and there could be multiple books made on what to do in certain situations.
 
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Applebutter61

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#13
Fundamentals>Tech.
Always.
Tech is not extremely important for a very large majority of the characters.
If you had to choose between opting to be proficient at tech or being proficient at your fundamentals in the game you should never opt for the first one.
Can I ask what you mean by tech exactly? I'm a bit of an isolated smash noob, so I don't always know what it all means.
 
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#14
I agree with the above posters. Dash dancing is by far the most useful technique in Smash 4. Basically, if you don't dash dance, you will lose, plain and simple. Doing so will cause your opponent to misinput pretty much everything and you will be able to punish over and over again. It also works as a mental tactic.
 

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#15
Can I ask what you mean by tech exactly? I'm a bit of an isolated smash noob, so I don't always know what it all means.
Advanced gameplay techniques and maneuvers, such as Perfect Pivots, moves out of Perfect Pivots, applying Dash Dances and Extended Dash Dances, character specific motions and techniques, unnecessarily elaborate and situational combos, etc.
If you had to chose between training all of what I just said or practicing your spacing, movement, fundamentals, matchups, theory, bread and butter combos and overall just building an incredible base for your gameplay, you'd be a fool to choose the former.
Think of it like this: Would you prefer to eat ice cream (fundamentals), or would you prefer to eat chocolate topping for ice cream (tech) with no ice cream?
Perhaps ideally you'd like both, but if you had to choose one over the other, of course you'd choose ice cream. Ice cream without toppings makes far more sense than toppings without ice cream.

That's also why you can't use expansive and overly flashy tech to cover bad fundamentals. The same way a bad player that knows a lot of tech is still just a bad player like any other, if you have bad ice cream and put lots and lots of delicious top on top of it, sure, that's some really nice topping, but it doesn't change the fact that it's on top of pretty ****ty ice cream to begin with, so it won't be long until the taste experience falls apart.
 
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rupan

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#18
So, can you guys elaborate on what exactly the "fundamentals" are, and what they mean? (please?)
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe these are the core/base things in Smash, like picking a main, seeing what tools your character can use, good match-ups and bad match-ups, combos, stages that give your main the advantage and being confident in tourneys.
 
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#19
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe these are the core/base things in Smash, like picking a main, seeing what tools your character can use, good match-ups and bad match-ups, combos, stages that give your main the advantage and being confident in tourneys.
Maybe to some extent, but I think it's typically more in-game things, like spacing, combos, punishes, and edgeguards.
 
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#20
So, can you guys elaborate on what exactly the "fundamentals" are, and what they mean? (please?)
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe these are the core/base things in Smash, like picking a main, seeing what tools your character can use, good match-ups and bad match-ups, combos, stages that give your main the advantage and being confident in tourneys.
Maybe to some extent, but I think it's typically more in-game things, like spacing, combos, punishes, and edgeguards.

Basically, fundamentals can be summed up as a system for understanding how to win interactions in varies states of gameplay.

When I play Zard vs say, a bowser, I really don’t like this MU. This is because bowser has similar reach ( Ftilt goes farrrr, his jab is great, and his firebreath works like ours), but has a superior grab game (because he has a much better kill confirm and damage racker), which means I have to be extremely cautious when battling him.

I can play the MU in a few ways; slow the match down and use flamethrower to halt his movements and use Fair and my tilts to box him out, or play more risky and run around a lot to try to bait a mistake and punish with either a grab or Jab (or Usmash and Utilt to set up a juggling game).

By throwing him into a juggle situation, I can rack a lot of damage on him with my intangible wings. Bowser still has options though, and can drift towards his front and do a Bair, drift towards his back and do a Fair, Side B, or he can do a weirdly timed Dair, Down B, or go to the ledge, etc.. he’s not helpless and I have to watch his every move and react.

Bowser can respond to me slowing down the game by baiting out a flamethrower or any spacing tool (jab has little range, though that could useful as a mix up to keep bowser guessing on when I’ll throw something out), and responding with his own firebreath, or waiting til It gets weak and go for a punish. My tilts are a simple shield and grab.

Bowser can respond to my risky play by reading my attack patterns and spacing, and space himself into shield grab range, or by using his own firebreath to slow me down.

The neutral is a constant “push and pull” battle, with many different attacks needing different responses.

Also, the RPS situation I described above (could’ve went into more depth) applies to juggle situations, edge-guarding (on and offstage), on a platform, and many more.

Fundamentals is basically a conversation.

Y’all don’t have to, but these videos can help you better understand it as well. Def don’t have to watch all of them.

 
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MercuryPenny

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#21
fundamentals are the universally applicable in-game skills every character benefits from. spacing, reads, option coverage, and situational awareness, the works
 
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rupan

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#22
Maybe to some extent, but I think it's typically more in-game things, like spacing, combos, punishes, and edgeguards.
fundamentals are the universally applicable in-game skills every character benefits from. spacing, reads, option coverage, and situational awareness, the works
Basically, fundamentals can be summed up as a system for understanding how to win interactions in varies states of gameplay.

When I play Zard vs say, a bowser, I really don’t like this MU. This is because bowser has similar reach ( Ftilt goes farrrr, his jab is great, and his firebreath works like ours), but has a superior grab game (because he has a much better kill confirm and damage racker), which means I have to be extremely cautious when battling him.

I can play the MU in a few ways; slow the match down and use flamethrower to halt his movements and use Fair and my tilts to box him out, or play more risky and run around a lot to try to bait a mistake and punish with either a grab or Jab (or Usmash and Utilt to set up a juggling game).

By throwing him into a juggle situation, I can rack a lot of damage on him with my intangible wings. Bowser still has options though, and can drift towards his front and do a Bair, drift towards his back and do a Fair, Side B, or he can do a weirdly timed Dair, Down B, or go to the ledge, etc.. he’s not helpless and I have to watch his every move and react.

Bowser can respond to me slowing down the game by baiting out a flamethrower or any spacing tool (jab has little range, though that could useful as a mix up to keep bowser guessing on when I’ll throw something out), and responding with his own firebreath, or waiting til It gets weak and go for a punish. My tilts are a simple shield and grab.

Bowser can respond to my risky play by reading my attack patterns and spacing, and space himself into shield grab range, or by using his own firebreath to slow me down.

The neutral is a constant “push and pull” battle, with many different attacks needing different responses.

Also, the RPS situation I described above (could’ve went into more depth) applies to juggle situations, edge-guarding (on and offstage), on a platform, and many more.

Fundamentals is basically a conversation.

Y’all don’t have to, but these videos can help you better understand it as well. Def don’t have to watch all of them.

Much better
 

origamiscienceguy

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#24
Some characters have tech that does absolutely need to be learned, like characters with items need to be good at item play, jigglypuff instant double jumping is almost required, etc.
 
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#25
Some characters have tech that does absolutely need to be learned, like characters with items need to be good at item play, jigglypuff instant double jumping is almost required, etc.
Those come with time, and does not need to be learned at the start of the game.

I can become solid at item play with just raw understanding of the item I’m using like ROB’s gyro. Just understanding its flight speed, arc, the amount of times it bounces, etc... will make me more than good enough at it.
 

roysrevengefgc

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#26
Learn to Dash dance. Doing so can trick opponents into coming after you and you can punish with turnaround grabs. if you know grab combos this can really help. But also learn to focus on the player and their play style. Cause you don't know if it could be a unique one. That is my advice to you. :)
i've been working on my grabs and power shielding a LOT more than before. After getting my a** handed to me each day by my classmate forced me to practice my defense a LOT more and not solely depend on Captain Falcons kill moves.
 

roysrevengefgc

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#28
And remember, it's not about just learning how to use tech. It's utilizing it during matches. I see a lot of people use perfect pivoting, but never effectively, let alone at all during matches while their opponent is on the stage. They tend to just do it to show off, as if it means you're suddenly a professional player. However, during GTX of this year, MkLeo used perfect pivoting effectively. So really, you can learn as many techniques as you wish, but it won't mean anything if you don't use them.

Directional influence is also an important tech to use. It helps you survive longer against attacks that would have otherwise killed you. In Sm4sh, there is an animation where you'll see red lightning (I think it's dependent on what player you are). This indicates that you're going to die. However, DI can prevent that, even if the red lightning shows up. If you're going to fight Bayonetta (and you will most likely bump into this character), you'll want to practice smash directional influence (SDI). Here's a video about the two below.

i have TERRIBLE DI honestly speaking lol i have seen it save peoples lives but always considered it too much work for me or something that is not guaranteed but i later learned its a necessity to save that stock that could give you that W
 

roysrevengefgc

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#29
Basically, fundamentals can be summed up as a system for understanding how to win interactions in varies states of gameplay.

When I play Zard vs say, a bowser, I really don’t like this MU. This is because bowser has similar reach ( Ftilt goes farrrr, his jab is great, and his firebreath works like ours), but has a superior grab game (because he has a much better kill confirm and damage racker), which means I have to be extremely cautious when battling him.

I can play the MU in a few ways; slow the match down and use flamethrower to halt his movements and use Fair and my tilts to box him out, or play more risky and run around a lot to try to bait a mistake and punish with either a grab or Jab (or Usmash and Utilt to set up a juggling game).

By throwing him into a juggle situation, I can rack a lot of damage on him with my intangible wings. Bowser still has options though, and can drift towards his front and do a Bair, drift towards his back and do a Fair, Side B, or he can do a weirdly timed Dair, Down B, or go to the ledge, etc.. he’s not helpless and I have to watch his every move and react.

Bowser can respond to me slowing down the game by baiting out a flamethrower or any spacing tool (jab has little range, though that could useful as a mix up to keep bowser guessing on when I’ll throw something out), and responding with his own firebreath, or waiting til It gets weak and go for a punish. My tilts are a simple shield and grab.

Bowser can respond to my risky play by reading my attack patterns and spacing, and space himself into shield grab range, or by using his own firebreath to slow me down.

The neutral is a constant “push and pull” battle, with many different attacks needing different responses.

Also, the RPS situation I described above (could’ve went into more depth) applies to juggle situations, edge-guarding (on and offstage), on a platform, and many more.

Fundamentals is basically a conversation.

Y’all don’t have to, but these videos can help you better understand it as well. Def don’t have to watch all of them.

I'm still learning all my fundamentals and tech. On a scale of 1 to 10 i consider myself a 3 or 4 with tech and fundamentals. i have never played smash competitively until about 2 years ago. Never really even considered tech or fundamentals, mostly turning items on and just seeing who can die the fastest. Now that i want to take my smashing to the next level, all these older habits have to die and its quite a learning curve for me considering i don't have the 6 to 8 hours to put into the game like i used to anymore. Its slow and painful process but its something i am committed to and taking seriously.
 

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#30
I'm still learning all my fundamentals and tech. On a scale of 1 to 10 i consider myself a 3 or 4 with tech and fundamentals. i have never played smash competitively until about 2 years ago. Never really even considered tech or fundamentals, mostly turning items on and just seeing who can die the fastest. Now that i want to take my smashing to the next level, all these older habits have to die and its quite a learning curve for me considering i don't have the 6 to 8 hours to put into the game like i used to anymore. Its slow and painful process but its something i am committed to and taking seriously.
Just take it slow, you don’t need 6-8 hours to improve dramatically, quality>>>quantity.

Learn one thing at a time, and practice it thoroughly.

As a matter of fact, I’d recommend you hold off on tech and focus on fundamentals entirely first. Try not to learn two things Simultaneously, as this can become very distracting and will throw you off and slow down your progress.
 

roysrevengefgc

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#31
Just take it slow, you don’t need 6-8 hours to improve dramatically, quality>>>quantity.

Learn one thing at a time, and practice it thoroughly.

As a matter of fact, I’d recommend you hold off on tech and focus on fundamentals entirely first. Try not to learn two things Simultaneously, as this can become very distracting and will throw you off and slow down your progress.
Most def, going to make a schedule for training and improve my hours of play overtime as it becomes available
 
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#32
Baby_Sneak Baby_Sneak

Watched the melee videos you shared and was blown away by the information. Most of it I already knew, but the few things. I picked up on felt pretty good to watch (I had to pause the first video a-lot just to understand the guy).

Then the 2nd and 3rd videos had a great presentation while the 3rd video gave a great answer on a common question players ask top players.

I never ever thought melee videos would be helpful to the smash 4 community because I was not apart of the melee scene.

Also how the guys in the video describe Mew2King is the exact way I think about him when I see him play Cloud in Smash 4 and when he has talked about Cloud on youtube.
 

Applebutter61

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#33
Baby_Sneak Baby_Sneak

Watched the melee videos you shared and was blown away by the information. Most of it I already knew, but the few things. I picked up on felt pretty good to watch (I had to pause the first video a-lot just to understand the guy).

Then the 2nd and 3rd videos had a great presentation while the 3rd video gave a great answer on a common question players ask top players.

I never ever thought melee videos would be helpful to the smash 4 community because I was not apart of the melee scene.

Also how the guys in the video describe Mew2King is the exact way I think about him when I see him play Cloud in Smash 4 and when he has talked about Cloud on youtube.
My favorite two vids were nuances of neutral and considering the ledge for sure. Same guy, great info.

Edit: Also, SSBM tutorials is a great channel also.
 
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Bl4z1ng1k3

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#34
Evening everyone, I just started playing smash on a competitive level and I want to make sure I am honing the appropriate techniques. With so many techniques and information out there, it's hard to decide what's useful in competitive play and what's not wasting your time. Any recommendations on a list of various absolutely necessary techniques I should practice and master before taking competitive play seriously?
I've started learning dash dancing and pivoting. Teching is sometimes hard for me..
 

Applebutter61

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#35
I've started learning dash dancing and pivoting. Teching is sometimes hard for me..
Teching is harder to implement in smash 4 than it is in Melee or PM due to air dodge mechanics, but it is something that one gets better at with nothing more than practice. However, I am still gathering info on perfect pivoting. I have found perfect pivoting to be very hard to pull off, but pivot grabbing relatively easy to pull off. However, this does not mean I have utilized pivot grabs despite my ability to use them.

Just wanna say, I know this is a Smash 4 thread, but I'm a PM player. Even so, I think that most of the principles of the game are the same, despite some different tech.
 
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#36
Found two videos that can make perfect pivots easier. The video with the Little Mac thumbnail is a method I'll consider trying.

 

DJBor

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#37
Beyond advanced tech, it's very important to learn how to handle other characters in the neutral. Know which characters have tools that can give you main a hard time, and learn how to answer them efficiently. Playing mind games comes with character comfort and knowledge of the opponent, so I wouldn't stress about it immediately, but see it as an end goal in competitive improvement once you have the basics down.
 

Applebutter61

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#38
Setting the c-stick to attack is actually a superior control setup in smash 4 I believe. However, I'm a PM player. This affects me because when I set the c-stick to attack in that game, it's weird. Mostly because of these:

1) If I try to perform any tilt multiple times in a row with the c-stick, it will perform the tilt usually once, then makes me jump. :confused: Come on Sakurai.
2) If I press the stick left when I face right, for example, my character performs the tilt without turning around, thus doing the tilt the OPPOSITE way I pushed on the c-stick, a problem and annoyance that does not exist with default smash c-stick.

I do not know if setiing the c-stick to attack has these same irritating effects in smash 4. If they do, then I'm not sure as to which use of the c-stick would be better. However, I don't think they do (correct me if I'm wrong) because of the vid below. I say again, I play PM. Because of this, I like to leave my controls as they would be if I were playing melee, because that's basically what PM is. For all you Sm4sh players out there interested in this topic, here is a youtube vid for you. Enjoy.

 

wendell

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#40
A good example of fundamentals applied to match ups is when you’re facing a camper character and you know you can’t approach recklessly because it would destroy you. In this match ups like samus in smash 4, and a laser happy melee falco you just can’ t approach in the same way like against the others characters.
 
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