What if there were back tilt and back smash moves?

[Necro'lic]

Probably has been thought of before, but what if, instead of having to turn around and ftilt or fsmash behind us, we have designated back tilt and back smash moves? It would hopefully be as intuitive as doing a RAR for a bair. And it gives more potential options for approaches and cross up prevention.

This is only a small idea, so forgive me if I missed a crucial detail that would make this potentially stupid on my part. :|

 

[Crystanium]

I don't know how it'd work. You can't turn around in the air, unless you B-turnaround or B-reverse. How would you turn around on the ground if tapping the opposite direction didn't change your direction?

 

[Necro'lic]

I don't know how it'd work. You can't turn around in the air, unless you B-turnaround or B-reverse. How would you turn around on the ground if tapping the opposite direction didn't change your direction?

I think you would be able to input specifically the back versions within the time frame of your turn. If you waited a bit longer, you would instead do the forward versions of the tilt/smash. I believe the time for the turn is 6 frames?

 

[Crystanium]

I think you would be able to input specifically the back versions within the time frame of your turn. If you waited a bit longer, you would instead do the forward versions of the tilt/smash. I believe the time for the turn is 6 frames?

I wouldn't know. I'm just working off aerial options and how those function. Although a Back+B special would also be interesting.

 

[Quillion]

I've thought of this idea before when I came to believe that the series has gone mechanically stagnant. But I'm not sure that back normals would really work as a good addition.

I suppose if they were a thing, I would think that back tilts and Smashes should still turn you around to preserve the tilt cancelling tech. But they shouldn't be as wildly different from f-tilts as f-airs and b-airs usually are. Maybe b-tilts can generally emphasize base knockback over knockback growth so that they're more geared towards non-kill keepaway. I could also see B-smashes either be faster and weaker or slower and stronger than F-smashes, but again, not to the same degree that contrasts aerials.

 

[Quillion]

Just bumping this thread to comment on Terry's back special.

Not exactly a fan of the back special and I think they're overdoing trying to give characters moves in unintuitive ways just like they did with Hero.

But this does make me want to see what they can do with back tilts and back smashes. Again, I don't think they should be as wildly different as forward aerials and back aerials are on most characters.

 

[Wigglerman]

The concept doesn't work in Smash outside of limited exceptions. Terry and his archetype being the exceptions. Ryu and Ken could have had similar moves but Terry took the crown for having them first.

The reason they work for Terry (And would for Ryu/Ken) is because of their fighting game roots and having the auto facing mechanic. Without this mechanic, performing such moves would be near impossible. Tilts specifically (And even then Terry only has a back special, not a tilt). You'd have no way to perform these moves on normal characters with how Smash works now, unless they added a function that forces your character to retain their facing so you could perform them without always turning around thus defeating the point of the move (Unless timing was strict to perform it while still facing the direction you currently are).

Feels like it'd be more of a headache than do anything to bolster the game's fun factor.

 

[meleebrawler]

Raiden in PSABR has a move called Back Cut that stabs behind him with a backwards input+Square. But it can't be used raw, only as a followup after another Square attack, intended to keep another fighter from sneaking up on you while slashing someone else.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Just bumping this thread to comment on Terry's back special.

Not exactly a fan of the back special and I think they're overdoing trying to give characters moves in unintuitive ways just like they did with Hero.

But this does make me want to see what they can do with back tilts and back smashes. Again, I don't think they should be as wildly different as forward aerials and back aerials are on most characters.

In regards to Terry, It's only unintuitive at first because you are not used to it. With enough practice with the character, you are supposed to overcome this hurdle and no doubt there will be Terry mains who won't have a problem with this.

With that said, I also think that adding back tilts and back smashes for everyone else would needlessly complicate the game when Smash's selling point lies in it's simplicity.

 

[AIM0001]

I love the fact Terry has a back special. It fits him so well and could probably fit others. However like a couple have said on here, Smash is appeal is simplicity. Though there is tech to dig into, the game is supposed to be accessible. I always thought one solution is to add another button that does an additional attack. Seeing how we have A, B buttons that perform attacks and X, Y as our jump buttons. What if instead of having two jump buttons, we used either X or Y as an additional attack button? I always envisioned this for Smash Ultimate but since it didn’t happen. I think it should be heavily discussed among the developers when they inevitably reboot Smash after Ultimate. Turning smash into a 3 button attack game wouldn’t scare the causals away imo.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

I feel as if Back Tilts/Smashes would only work if they were like Terry's Back Special. Not necessarily a move that goes behind the fighter but an alternate move in the same direction. If you do it normally it's Burn Knuckle but if you did it from behind it would become Crack Shot. Despite the different input the moves they still go in the same direction. Being the direction Terry is facing.

Even so I feel as if this should be more reserved for specials as sometimes you may need to use a good side tilt backwards to get a fighter off your back. Perhaps we could apply the same input but instead off a different move it's a difference in power. Like if you perform a side Smash in the direction you're facing it's at normal power but if you start charging it and lean the analog stick to the opposite direction it could have more knockback than usual.

I think you have a good idea, but I think it would require a lot of work to be properly implemented naturally.

 

[Quillion]

I always thought one solution is to add another button that does an additional attack. Seeing how we have A, B buttons that perform attacks and X, Y as our jump buttons. What if instead of having two jump buttons, we used either X or Y as an additional attack button?

This right here. I've been thinking that sacrificing one of the jump buttons for a universal "super move"/EX move mechanic would be a good way of adding a mechanic to Smash without overcomplicating it. Would be a good way of universalizing Cloud's limit mechanic and would be a much better way to implement Terry's desperation mechanic.