What if custom controls were possible?

[SSG SAX GAMER]

OMG IF YOU COULD DO THAT THE FIRST THING I'M DOING IS TURNING TAP JUMP OFF!!!!!!!!

 

[-ACE-]

OMG IF YOU COULD DO THAT THE FIRST THING I'M DOING IS TURNING TAP JUMP OFF!!!!!!!!

Tap jump is actually pretty awesome for frame perfect dj aerials.

 

[SSG SAX GAMER]

Tap jump is actually pretty awesome for frame perfect dj aerials.

Probably but sometimes I accidentally jump when trying to up tilt or dash dance

 

[Bakuryu]

I was merely highlighting how ridiculous the "afraid of change" argument you keep making is. If I was afraid of change I'd say shield dropping should have been banned years ago. You can give that one a rest.

Again not even close to the same thing. Your talking about things that are already in the game, which this wouldn't change. It changes how we play it. There is a difference between change in gameplay based on mechanics and changes to how people are able to play which is based on controllers and settings.

I see you are fine with changing the standard as you see fit, and everything else is ruining the game. Good philosophy. Btw, c-stick is a macro. The addition of something like that wouldn't ruin the game, unless you consider melee already ruined. Just an example.

Not sure what you are trying to say in the first sentence, but nothing would be ruined IMO, but either way we wouldn't know if we don't try it and I see no evidence or reason why it would ruin anything. C-stick is a built in macro that every version of the game has, saves you maybe a couple seconds and extra button press, and doesn't allow tech to be pulled with extreme ease. For example what if as a Fox I macroed B to be Down+B and Right Trigger to be Jump+Right Trigger? I could waveshine with only two buttons presses and a direction instead of three, but why stop there I could just make B macro Down+B, Jump+Right Trigger and just input a direction and save my the trouble of pressing the trigger all together. That would be taking a shortcut in terms of practice because you wouldn't even need to learn the timing of the inputs because the macro does it for you.

The fact that you defend a substitute for practice with "but they still have to practice" is very funny to me. This is irrelevant as you'd have to practice regardless of any modification. I doubt you'll ever get it lol.

You do realize the contradiction you just made right? Here let me show you, you said it would be a "substitute for practice", then go on to say "you'd have to practice regardless of any modification", which is my point... How would it be irrelevant when what I am saying is literately that it is not a substitute for practice because you still have to practice.

You're almost there man! Now imagine it's a wall climbing competition, and someone comes along using the stairs (and claims to be an innovator), arguing it's legit. Lol.

Unless the rules state otherwise stairs are still a form of climbing. Ever hear the phrase "Climbing a flight a stairs"? Beside the example doesn't match up if you make it a wall climbing competition. If that were the case its more like regulating how you are allowed to climb to just one way because everyone else learned to climb that way.

No. Steroids won't automatically make you amazing in sports, but it's unfair and banned. Again you're missing the entire point.

This is just a bad comparison in general. Your making the argument that remapping buttons is similar to people using steroids aka remapping buttons will somehow enable them to gain tech skill quicker like steroids enable people to gain muscle quicker, except tech skill is not the same as muscle. Steroids isn't banned simply because its unfair, its banned because its dangerous and unhealthy as well. The thing is the comparison doesn't make sense because muscle growth can contribute to better performance in sports because it can help players hit hard, run faster, etc. Remapped buttons won't do that because tech skill requires timing, both in execution and when to apply it. Games are competition of dexterity, but with a set controller you limit the competition to people who can operate those controls the best and potentially leave those who know how to play the game the best out of doing well. You wanna talk about fair, letting people use the controls they want is fair, restricting them from doing so is unfair.

No. I wouldn't mind it at all of i viewed it as fair by any stretch of the imagination.

LOL. No. You simply either have no sense of fairness in competition, or don't place any value on it.

I don't see how this is unfair? Is it unfair because you had to learn it the way it is now? Sorry, but now you can experiment with what might work better for you long term. You don't stop to think about players who have learned the "standard" way, but still wish to change their controls because it better fits their play style. I again will bring of health reasons, players like Hax and M2K who have hand issues might considered looking into different controls to help keep their hands healthier. Even players with disabilities is a factor here. There are more reasons to allow it then to not allow it. I am curious if I went to a tournament with such a device and sat down and told my opponent what buttons I swapped and asked them if they were ok with that how many would really be against it. I think the results would surprise you.

To them, I'd say that I'm sorry melee is a technical game, and urge them to keep practicing, as it is also a fun and rewarding game.

Translation: Git gud. You missing the point, players like this hit a technical barrier because they are fighting controls instead of their opponent. Inevitably these people will probably just give up playing competitively, which I am guessing to that you will say w/e, but as someone who recognizes that this game is alive because of a thriving community losing players this way is a huge loss for the community because they aren't bad players, they just aren't able to focus on learning the match ups and strategy of the game because they are stuck just trying to execute their tech despite all the hard work they put in.

 

[-ACE-]

There is a difference between change in gameplay based on mechanics and changes to how people are able to play which is based on controllers and settings.

True but irrelevant. Again, I was merely pointing out how ridiculous the "afraid of change" argument is.

Not sure what you are trying to say

I can tell.

nothing would be ruined IMO

Guess you forgot this?

Most of the things you just said would definitely ruin the game.

One of these was macros, and you just explained how certain macros don't ruin the game. Obvious contradiction.

You do realize the contradiction you just made right? Here let me show you, you said it would be a "substitute for practice", then go on to say "you'd have to practice regardless of any modification", which is my point... How would it be irrelevant when what I am saying is literately that it is not a substitute for practice because you still have to practice.

It's hard for me to realize how you can't get this, but I'm making progress. YOU WOULD HAVE TO PRACTICE LESS. <-- re-read that. This equates to a substitute for practice. Lol.

This is just a bad comparison in general. Your making the argument that remapping buttons is similar to people using steroids aka remapping buttons will somehow enable them to gain tech skill quicker like steroids enable people to gain muscle quicker, except tech skill is not the same as muscle.

You're*

Tech skill not being the same as muscle is completely irrelevant. You seem to skip over the relevance of the example. Steroids are another substitute for practice, and the unfairness that comes with outside aid to your skill in competing according to a STANDARD is the main reason they are banned. There are countless unhealthy practices that are perfectly legal. The concept of fairness in competition is the driving force behind the legality.

I don't see how this is unfair? Is it unfair because you had to learn it the way it is now? Sorry, but now you can experiment with what might work better for you long term. You don't stop to think about players who have learned the "standard" way, but still wish to change their controls because it better fits their play style. I again will bring of health reasons, players like Hax and M2K who have hand issues might considered looking into different controls to help keep their hands healthier. Even players with disabilities is a factor here. There are more reasons to allow it then to not allow it. I am curious if I went to a tournament with such a device and sat down and told my opponent what buttons I swapped and asked them if they were ok with that how many would really be against it. I think the results would surprise you.

This isn't about me, and there's no need to apologize. I've already stated that I think it would be good for people with disabilities. There are many players ok with notches to aid in their precision with the control stick too (not counting shield drop notches), it doesn't mean it's fair.

Translation: Git gud. You missing the point, players like this hit a technical barrier because they are fighting controls instead of their opponent. Inevitably these people will probably just give up playing competitively, which I am guessing to that you will say w/e, but as someone who recognizes that this game is alive because of a thriving community losing players this way is a huge loss for the community because they aren't bad players, they just aren't able to focus on learning the match ups and strategy of the game because they are stuck just trying to execute their tech despite all the hard work they put in.

Great translation. You're*

Fighting controls huh? You seem to not realize that executing technical maneuvers is a core aspect of melee. There are lots of people that can't handle the tech and choose another game. Not sure why you think keeping the standard as is will cause a ton of people to quit. It's the standard. Practicing to me is simply better than trying to make the game easier to play, from a competitive standpoint.

 

[Bakuryu]

True but irrelevant. Again, I was merely pointing out how ridiculous the "afraid of change" argument is.

It is relevant because your example doesn't make sense. Afraid of change isn't a ridiculous argument, especially when we already had someone admit they were in this very thread.

Guess you forgot this?
One of these was macros, and you just explained how certain macros don't ruin the game. Obvious contradiction.

Since you never specified what kind of macros it was assumed you were talking about macros that are not already in the game. I wasn't talking about the built in macro that is in almost every game since it doesn't ruin the game for the exact reasons I specified. Real macros outside of the one in the game would ruin it, again for the reasons I specified.

It's hard for me to realize how you can't get this, but I'm making progress. YOU WOULD HAVE TO PRACTICE LESS. <-- re-read that. This equates to a substitute for practice. Lol.

So what your saying is its more efficient practicing? Why is that a bad thing? In this instance practicing less isn't a substitute for practice, its practicing more efficiently.

Tech skill not being the same as muscle is completely irrelevant. You seem to skip over the relevance of the example. Steroids are another substitute for practice, and the unfairness that comes with outside aid to your skill in competing according to a STANDARD is the main reason they are banned. There are countless unhealthy practices that are perfectly legal. The concept of fairness in competition is the driving force behind the legality.

I think the comparison is just wrong all together mainly because I don't see how remapping buttons is unfair. How is this different from say a protein shake? Everyone will be able to do it, so whats the problem? I still see this as only being "that's not fair, I learned the standard way so everyone should have to as well" argument, which just sounds childish.

This isn't about me, and there's no need to apologize. I've already stated that I think it would be good for people with disabilities. There are many players ok with notches to aid in their precision with the control stick too (not counting shield drop notches), it doesn't mean it's fair.

How is someone using notches not fair if you can do it too? Fair means one player not having an advantage over another right? If you really wanted to, you could make notches in your controller too, so how is it unfair when you have the same opportunity as your opponent?

Fighting controls huh? You seem to not realize that executing technical maneuvers is a core aspect of melee. There are lots of people that can't handle the tech and choose another game.

I play other fighting games besides Melee and they are also very technical games. Yet they are totally fine with allowing different controllers so why shouldn't we? I am not just talking about Street Fighter either, I mean faster games like Guilty Gear or Blazblue that require fast timing of presses. They might not require as rapid of inputs as Smash does, but that doesn't mean they aren't technical games. I actually stick with Smash more than other fighting game despite the inputs being faster because the game allows more freedom of movement than most fighters, yet unlike other fighters I only have one way to play that when you really look at it is actually not that optimal.

Not sure why you think keeping the standard as is will cause a ton of people to quit. It's the standard. Practicing to me is simply better than trying to make the game easier to play, from a competitive standpoint.

Never said a ton of people would quit, but people will quit if they feel they aren't making progress competitively and one reason that can be is because they are forced into a standard with the only reason right now being that it isn't possible any other way besides controller mods. You can have your personal preference on how you want to play the game, but allowing buttons to be remapped isn't going to make people instantly better at the game or even make it easier to be the best, it will just make it so people can play in a way they feel best suits them and in doing that they can play the best of their abilities.

So basically I don't see this going anywhere further and if anything I would love to hear other peoples opinions about it so at this point I'm going to just agree to disagree with you.

 

[-ACE-]

Bakuryu yeah this is going nowhere, it's actually getting comical at this point. Good talk.