Legality What I think about Wobbling

[GamingGuardian]

Before you begin, I just want to note I'm no expert. I have hardly any experience, but I still want to make this post. So anyways, wobbling is a highly controversial topic, because it is a way for someone to get a free stock off of the other player. Some people want to ban it. Some people want to keep it legal. I thought of a way that in a way satisfies both, but of course due to my lack of experience, someone's going to see a flaw with it almost immediately.
First let's talk about banning wobbling. Those who want to ban wobbling say that wobbling is overpowered and it is too easy to perform to be that overpowered. However, those who want to keep wobbling say that even with wobbling, the Ice Climbers still have some losing matchups (Peach is the most famous example) and so it would need to be kept. They also say that wobbling is harder than one may think.
So my solution is putting restrictions on wobbling based on the matchup. Depending on who wins the matchup and by how much will determine the restriction put on the Ice Climbers. On the Ice Climbers vs. Peach matchup, where Peach wins even when Ice Climbers have wobbling on their side, no wobbling restrictions would be made. On the Ice Climbers vs. Roy matchup, where the Ice Climbers win the matchup, wobbling would either be banned or have major restrictions because it is too powerful. So what do you think?

 

[redcometchar]

A few issues
One : Subjective rules like this are always hard to execute. Giving your opponent the ability to manipulate the rules would be a little awkward.

Two : Who dictates what matchups are bad or good? what if a certain IC's player likes the peach matchup? What about IC's vs sheik?

Three : What kind of precedent does this set? Can we ban waveshining in the fox falcon matchup? Can we ban chaingrabbing in the Marth falco matchup?

Four : In banned cases, how much is too much? what if they preform one or two wobble sequences by accident? Is that worth a punishment?

Five : In not banned cases, can an opponent be wobbled indefinetly?

 

[GamingGuardian]

A few issues
One : Subjective rules like this are always hard to execute. Giving your opponent the ability to manipulate the rules would be a little awkward.

Two : Who dictates what matchups are bad or good? what if a certain IC's player likes the peach matchup? What about IC's vs sheik?

Three : What kind of precedent does this set? Can we ban waveshining in the fox falcon matchup? Can we ban chaingrabbing in the Marth falco matchup?

Four : In banned cases, how much is too much? what if they preform one or two wobble sequences by accident? Is that worth a punishment?

Five : In not banned cases, can an opponent be wobbled indefinetly?

Well once again, I'm no expert, but I thank you for taking the time to point these things out.
One: What do you mean by this? Sorry, I'm too stupid to understand.
Two: There are matchup charts, but I suppose you make a valid point.
Three: I suppose that is a fair point.
Four: Once again, I'm no expert, but I don't know if you can wobble by accident.

 

[redcometchar]

Well once again, I'm no expert, but I thank you for taking the time to point these things out.

Ill elaborate on some of these a little more, but im no expert either although i have won evo every year since 1987.

One: I was largely eluding to counterpick scenarios but it could apply in other situations as well. Since we cant have a tournament referee for every set, players understanding exactly who can and cannot be legally wobbled is a tall order. I think we have a hard enough time enforcing dave's stupid rule in these situations anyway.

Two: The matchup charts change all of the time, and differ considerably between individuals. I dont think the melee back room does matchup charts, only tier lists for these reasons.

Four: A missed input that results in nana doing a blizzard or a desyncronized attack is not tremendously unlikely. This is not really a major hicup but this situation would need to be regulated under the ruleset.

I think if we are going to go as far as this to deal with wobbling, making a community patch for the game would be easier to execute. With 20xx te using memory cards, it isn't un-feasible anymore, however, what exactly we should or shouldn't touch in this patch is another can of worms i dont want to touch.

 

[Archelon]

ICs lose badly to Fox, Marth, and Falcon, as well as losing to Puff and Falco. Should wobbling be legal on all of them, as well? At this point, with it legal on the vast majority of characters people play, should it just not be banned at all? Also, let's ban fox's waveshine. It's a strong combo tool that allows him to beat most characters.

 

[GamingGuardian]

ICs lose badly to Fox, Marth, and Falcon, as well as losing to Puff and Falco. Should wobbling be legal on all of them, as well? At this point, with it legal on the vast majority of characters people play, should it just not be banned at all? Also, let's ban fox's waveshine. It's a strong combo tool that allows him to beat most characters.

Considering how I've seen many people complain about how OP wobbling is, I feel like it really only applies to wobbling. However, considering how the poll says 5 people want wobbling to be unbanned where no one else does, it looks like it doesn't. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[redcometchar]

Considering how I've seen many people complain about how OP wobbling is, I feel like it really only applies to wobbling. However, considering how the poll says 5 people want wobbling to be unbanned where no one else does, it looks like it doesn't. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to reply.

Well i mean you did post this in a ic's forum so this poll is definitely biased.

 

[GamingGuardian]

Well i mean you did post this in a ic's forum so this poll is definitely biased.

True. But I hardly use ice climbers yet I still venture over here.

 

[Archelon]

Considering how I've seen many people complain about how OP wobbling is, I feel like it really only applies to wobbling. However, considering how the poll says 5 people want wobbling to be unbanned where no one else does, it looks like it doesn't. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I think what people complain about, or at least what they mean, is that it's easy, not OP. Because, while it's hard, lots of characters have 0-deaths on each other.

 

[GamingGuardian]

I think what people complain about, or at least what they mean, is that it's easy, not OP. Because, while it's hard, lots of characters have 0-deaths on each other.

Yeah, you're right.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Honestly, the wobble banning arguments are really just a lost cause.
People aren't rational about it and the majority of players with super adamant opinions on the subject are newer players who, honestly, don't really understand the game in a competitive context, and are more concerned with fun and entertainment value.

There are a lot of other arguments to be had like the illusion of choice and low-level biased rulesets, but, to be honest, people just don't like to be told that they are wrong in cases like this.

Last point is, wobbling was universally banned. That was a thing that happened. It was almost impossible to regulate and there were a ton of loopholes, so TOs pretty much gave up on that idea.

 

[ReddLupinIII]

Old school player here.
I think it should be banned. I am surprised it has not been yet.

A few reasons:
- It is basically an instant kill if landed. I think that instant kills are generally not good. It is just too good a move and makes things boring.

- It is an infinite. Other infinites are banned, and IDK why this one is so special.

- The fact that it is such a good move makes the whole character play drastically changed.

- I feel that a move like that does not do any good for the spirit of the game. It is like brawl.

 

[ambience]

- It is basically an instant kill if landed. I think that instant kills are generally not good. It is just too good a move and makes things boring.

- It is an infinite. Other infinites are banned, and IDK why this one is so special.

- The fact that it is such a good move makes the whole character play drastically changed.

- I feel that a move like that does not do any good for the spirit of the game. It is like brawl.

- Should puff's rest be banned? Fox's shine? Marth's dair? Or really any move capable of killing very early?
- Which infinites are banned? Hasn't the rule always been don't go above 300%?
- What's the issue with a move/technique changing how a character is played?
- I don't know what to say about this one but I don't think it's a valid reason.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

I feel like wobbling is fine as it doesn't overcentralize the meta and almost every character has tools to counter even someone like sheik who is so susceptible to crouch cancel tactics can still safely space little pokes to whittle them up to a high enough percent to use her combo and edge guarding ability even characters with a bad matchup can deal with wobbling and have appropriate tools to split up nana and popo and what of the people who like watching wobbling like me I don't want to watch someone counter pick to a character were wobbling is illegal just to get a better matchup.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Trust me, if Wobbling goes then Icies will just move on to Hand-Offs and it'll solve nothing.