What do I do when they miss the tech on dthrow?

[Lythia]

ive been watching M2k pools sets and whenever his opponent misses the tech on dthrow, Jason just gives up on the tech chase and resets to neutral. Missing the tech can't be viable, else why would all the top players always tech? Does every top spacies main just suck at the matchup? I usually just jab reset and then regrab, but that only works for so long before jab reset stops working. Should I just downsmash?

 

[Jackson]

Honestly IMO miss tech is the best tech option by far, once you demonstrate that you can react to tech in place at least. Decent or better players will SDI the jab reset and make it incredibly hard for you to do lengthy tech chases; alternatively if you just wait once they miss tech you just have to react to more. Get up attack is frustrating to deal with; even if you CC next to it like Wizzrobe does you take damage which sucks, and you need to be able to dash back out of crouch (quite hard) to catch the no-tech roll behind.

Overall no tech gives them waaaay too many escape options and I seriously believe its the best choice. I think Ftilting or something similiar their no tech to make them tech again is pretty good, at least it doesn't lose to SDI up or make you react to wack no tech stuff. Dsmash can start an edgeguard especially if you catch bad DI on it, but I'm not a huge fan because I aim for my tech chases to go to 100% or so when I can then pop them up and Fair them off for a far easier kill.

Of course, this is all from the perspective of pure reaction tech chasing. If your opponents over abuse no tech against you, you can certainly go for tech read Usmashes which can get you into some juicy stuff like regrabs or Fairs.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

You should be fine going for jab reset vs Fox if you grabbed him at 0, but Falco and Falcon have a much easier time SDIing. But even assuming they don't, if Fox or Falco land face up, the window to actually jab reset if you're closer is a lot smaller as well. You should just wait it out, but if you really want to, and they aren't immediately in get up attack range, you could just charge needles if you haven't and release to cover everything but rolling in (which you'd just cancel the needles and grab). If you already have a full stack, you could just throw them all as soon as you see no tech.

For ftilting no tech, beware since it launches them upward and can function as a jab reset if it is staled at all. If that happens, they don't even need to SDI to break out and get to retaliate. You could also uptilt instead, and potentially alternate between the two, or if percent permits, just down-smash when it knocks down since it's basically free positioning. You can actually jab reset with chain, but that's a read in pretty much any instance.

A properly spaced usmash read is also fine when it start's knocking down, because it can cover 3/4 options and leave you safe from them retaliating on the last.

Also note, the lower they were in the air during their no tech, the harder it is to SDI the jab reset, and if possible, you could just try to mix up timings to throw off the SDI.

There's also a brief window where no tech can be grabbed itself, so you could try that if you really wanted.

I'd say don't bother with jab resets at all after around 40 (besides, a bunch of your other stuff will knock down by now).

If you want to be the coolest person in the room, you could use vanish on no tech, since you're invincible going up to the hitbox, and it will knock down. It could also be used similarly to usmash for covering 3/4 tech options before no tech becomes a factor.

Edit:
And here's some relevant knockdown percents (end percent, no CC):
Fox:
Dsmash (1st hit): 32
Ftilt: 31
Dash attack (sweetspot): 30
Fsmash (2nd hit): 26
Usmash (sourspot): 20
Falco:
Dsmash (1st hit): 33
Ftilt: 32
Dash attack (sweetspot): 30
Fsmash (2nd hit): 27
Usmash (sourspot): 21
Falcon:
Dsmash (1st hit): 38
Ftilt: 36
Dash attack (sweetspot): 34
Fsmash (2nd hit): 31
Usmash (sourspot): 24

Assuming they're unstale, all of those moves won't reset so hitting no tech with them to those percents forces them into a knockdown situation again if it doesn't combo outright.

Also try throwing in dtilt to the ftilt utilt alteration if you're doing that strat, but try to use it as the last tilt on rotation.

That's two other tilts, + the throw, + pummels unstaling your first tilt, and if the first tilt was uptilt you basically have a guarenteed pummel on the second regrab (if you get it) assuming all moves used are unstale.

For the vanish strat to work if they actually tech, you're probably not doing it off of dthrow if you aren't by a ledge, and if you are, it's at higher percents to be able to cover tech in place. Still cool though.

You can also try fsmash on no tech after a bit of percent because the 2nd hit knocks down decently early and the first hit can reset.

 

[Jackson]

You should be fine going for jab reset vs Fox if you grabbed him at 0, but Falco and Falcon have a much easier time SDIing. But even assuming they don't, if Fox or Falco land face up, the window to actually jab reset if you're closer is a lot smaller as well. You should just wait it out, but if you really want to, and they aren't immediately in get up attack range, you could just charge needles if you haven't and release to cover everything but rolling in (which you'd just cancel the needles and grab). If you already have a full stack, you could just throw them all as soon as you see no tech.

For ftilting no tech, beware since it launches them upward and can function as a jab reset if it is staled at all. If that happens, they don't even need to SDI to break out and get to retaliate. You could also uptilt instead, and potentially alternate between the two, or if percent permits, just down-smash when it knocks down since it's basically free positioning. You can actually jab reset with chain, but that's a read in pretty much any instance.

A properly spaced usmash read is also fine when it start's knocking down, because it can cover 3/4 options and leave you safe from them retaliating on the last.

Also note, the lower they were in the air during their no tech, the harder it is to SDI the jab reset, and if possible, you could just try to mix up timings to throw off the SDI.

There's also a brief window where no tech can be grabbed itself, so you could try that if you really wanted.

I'd say don't bother with jab resets at all after around 40 (besides, a bunch of your other stuff will knock down by now).

If you want to be the coolest person in the room, you could use vanish on no tech, since you're invincible going up to the hitbox, and it will knock down. It could also be used similarly to usmash for covering 3/4 tech options before no tech becomes a factor.

Edit:
And here's some relevant knockdown percents (end percent, no CC):
Fox:
Dsmash (1st hit): 32
Ftilt: 31
Dash attack (sweetspot): 30
Fsmash (2nd hit): 26
Usmash (sourspot): 20
Falco:
Dsmash (1st hit): 33
Ftilt: 32
Dash attack (sweetspot): 30
Fsmash (2nd hit): 27
Usmash (sourspot): 21
Falcon:
Dsmash (1st hit): 38
Ftilt: 36
Dash attack (sweetspot): 34
Fsmash (2nd hit): 31
Usmash (sourspot): 24

Assuming they're unstale, all of those moves won't reset so hitting no tech with them to those percents forces them into a knockdown situation again if it doesn't combo outright.

Also try throwing in dtilt to the ftilt utilt alteration if you're doing that strat, but try to use it as the last tilt on rotation.

That's two other tilts, + the throw, + pummels unstaling your first tilt, and if the first tilt was uptilt you basically have a guarenteed pummel on the second regrab (if you get it) assuming all moves used are unstale.

For the vanish strat to work if they actually tech, you're probably not doing it off of dthrow if you aren't by a ledge, and if you are, it's at higher percents to be able to cover tech in place. Still cool though.

You can also try fsmash on no tech after a bit of percent because the 2nd hit knocks down decently early and the first hit can reset.

Nice writeup.

When can you grab No tech? Is it reactable?

 

[CAUP]

I don't know what everyone here is talking about. Missed Tech is absolutely not the best tech option. If your opponent is smash DI ing jab reset there are counters to that. Or you can crouch. Actually being required to dash out of crouch doesn't usually happen (you would have to be standing literally on top of them). You can dash forward for one or two frames and then dash back. But then just learn dash back out of crouch. It is tricky to be consistent with but definitely possible.