Controls What controller should I use? Switch Pro Controller tourney legal?

[Gimj]

Okay so I've been playing Smush with the joycon grip and it's just not optimal at all. I need a new controller and I'm thinking of going to Best Buy when I wake tomorrow. I was interested in trying the Switch Pro controller, but I have heard it has input lag when wired and it won't be tourney legal. I'm coming from Smash 4 as a Wii u Pro controller user. If the Switch Pro controller is not legal, I'm thinking of investing in the Horipad Gamecube controller(due to +1 shoulder button being superior). Or maybe go back to normal GameCube controller I forsook for years? But I'd like to know what's what before I buy. Can anyone help me out?

tl;dr main question is whether Switch Pro is legal/has input lag, and if not, what's the best tourney legal controller to commit to?

 

[Ctreasure0124]

I haven't had any input lag with pro, and it should be tourney legal. Gamecube controller is probably slightly better/more optimal but pro controller is really easy to pick up and play with. Choose the one you find more comfortable.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

Pro is definitely legal. That said, using the Pro wired has half a frame of input lag (This is a Switch thing, not a Smash thing), but I believe this applies to any wired controller so it shouldn't be an issue. Aside from that, wireless interference might be an issue but you can deal with that by plugging in.

Personally I might use a Pro for Ultimate, but I'm used to using a GC.

 

[elmike]

Pro is definitely legal. That said, using the Pro wired has half a frame of input lag (This is a Switch thing, not a Smash thing), but I believe this applies to any wired controller so it shouldn't be an issue. Aside from that, wireless interference might be an issue but you can deal with that by plugging in.

Personally I might use a Pro for Ultimate, but I'm used to using a GC.

So this means that a gamecube controller also has a half frame input lag?

 

[Seleir]

Someone tested the GCN L- stick controller sensitivity and how much it changes in terms of smashes and tilts?
I really found hard doing tilts so if anyone has a suggestion on how to set it up...

 

[Gimj]

Pro is definitely legal. That said, using the Pro wired has half a frame of input lag (This is a Switch thing, not a Smash thing), but I believe this applies to any wired controller so it shouldn't be an issue. Aside from that, wireless interference might be an issue but you can deal with that by plugging in.

Personally I might use a Pro for Ultimate, but I'm used to using a GC.

So this means that a gamecube controller also has a half frame input lag?

Yes I would like to verify this as well. Can you confirm Shieldlesscap ? If all wired controllers have that same input lag problem that makes things easier to decide. But I'd like to know for certain, because I don't want to use a Pro controller if it has more input lag than GameCube/Horipad.

Thanks for all the responses so far guys.

 

[Chiroz]

It’s already been tested and Wired Pro has an extremely slightly less amount of input lag than the GCC (about 1/100th of a frame). Wireless Pro has about 1/10th of a frame faster response than both GCC and Wired Pro.

Pro won’t be banned. It might be restricted to only wired mode, but it will 100% not be banned, don’t be scared to learn it.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

Yes I would like to verify this as well. Can you confirm Shieldlesscap ? If all wired controllers have that same input lag problem that makes things easier to decide. But I'd like to know for certain, because I don't want to use a Pro controller if it has more input lag than GameCube/Horipad.

Thanks for all the responses so far guys.

I wasn't sure, but I'd assume they both have lag since this is a wired controller issue with the Switch's OS (rather than with specifically the Pro Controller). I haven't tested. That said, I'll take Chiroz's word for it.

 

[Gimj]

It’s already been tested and Wired Pro has an extremely slightly less amount of input lag than the GCC (about 1/100th of a frame). Wireless Pro has about 1/10th of a frame faster response than both GCC and Wired Pro.

Pro won’t be banned. It might be restricted to only wired mode, but it will 100% not be banned, don’t be scared to learn it.

Thanks a lot for this information I appreciate it. So many people said the Pro controller has more input lag than every controller, ugh so much misinfo.


...Maybe we should have a stickied thread titled like "all you need to know about Ultimate/Switch controllers." I think it could help a lot of other peeps. Or at least have this information handy for each of the respective remotes.

 

[Primal Cookie]

I’ve tried playing with the joycons and they’re pretty awful, at least to me. The sticks are way too stiff for my liking, and the entire thing is just a bit too small. I’ll stick to the pro controller.

 

[Cencil]

Okay so I've been playing Smush with the joycon grip and it's just not optimal at all. I need a new controller and I'm thinking of going to Best Buy when I wake tomorrow. I was interested in trying the Switch Pro controller, but I have heard it has input lag when wired and it won't be tourney legal. I'm coming from Smash 4 as a Wii u Pro controller user. If the Switch Pro controller is not legal, I'm thinking of investing in the Horipad Gamecube controller(due to +1 shoulder button being superior). Or maybe go back to normal GameCube controller I forsook for years? But I'd like to know what's what before I buy. Can anyone help me out?

tl;dr main question is whether Switch Pro is legal/has input lag, and if not, what's the best tourney legal controller to commit to?

If you're worried about getting a legal controller that isn't banned, how would the Horipad Gamecube controller not be? That shouldn't even be a consideration if you knew it had a Turbo button. Super banned,

 

[trunks182]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLvHbYn97Q&t=483s

This guy does a good job showing at 7:10 why the Hori Battlepads are garbage for Smash.

 

[prae]

Curious about b0xx legality in U

 

[Gimj]

If you're worried about getting a legal controller that isn't banned, how would the Horipad Gamecube controller not be? That shouldn't even be a consideration if you knew it had a Turbo button. Super banned,

oof idk how I missed that. I glanced at it honestly didn't examine the turbo button. But all is well, I doled out some coin for a Pro controller last week and have been very happy with my purchase. Feels snug in my hands and picks up exactly where the joycon grip flaws were (tiny, weird sticks). I'm already very comfortable with it. I highly recommend it to people willing to give a new controller a go.

The only "flaw" is that it has no corners on the sticks like the GC remote, so you'll have to memorize where to input your tilts and directions. I'm practicing this now, because this was a problem with the Wii U pro controller I never actually bothered dedicated time to practicing.

UnlikeyoukidsIadapttoanewcontrollerforeverySmashmeanwhileyoustillstuckonGameCubecuzurafraidtolosemuh"muscle memory"sitdownandgitgudsonI'm coolerthanyou'lleverbesimplyforthisonefactdontquestionme

 

[Kyralt]

I've been playing since release with the pro controller and I'm quite a fan of the switch wired controller. It's probably cheaper than buying the GC controller+Adapter since the switch wired controller is only $25. Adapting to the position of the A and B buttons on the controller compared to a PS4 or Xbox controller was a little strange at first but its no big deal.

 

[DunnoBro]

The switch pro controller is objectively the best smash ultimate controller for the following reasons:

1: Digital shoulders = More accurate, and quicker release of shield buttons. (Meaning more consistent parries)
2: Alignment of the face buttons, specifically Y/B which allows for more consistent (and much easier) short hop, and spaced specials.
3: The extra, and digital shoulder buttons make a shoulder jump viable as a primary jumping option. (In smash 4, many top players used a shoulder jump for specific techs like SH Bouncing Fish, or JC Glide toss, but the springs made it nonviable for a main option.)

That said, the gamecube controller does have the octagonal gate around the control stick. Which helps with some recovery angles, and likely airdodge directions. Though you can mod this onto a switch pro if you really wanted it. (I think some third party, but nintendo licensed wired pros have this by default)

 

[Cheryl~]

I've decided to get a Pro Controller for Christmas this year after hearing all the good stuff about it especially in Ultimate, and I'll be getting it wired for tourneys but I'm not sure which places would be best to buy a wired controller from, more specifically if there's any better brands than others for the controller, I've been seeing a lot of PowerA which seems good but I just wanna be sure. Anyone got any recommendations?

 

[Gimj]

The switch pro controller is objectively the best smash ultimate controller for the following reasons:

1: Digital shoulders = More accurate, and quicker release of shield buttons. (Meaning more consistent parries)
2: Alignment of the face buttons, specifically Y/B which allows for more consistent (and much easier) short hop, and spaced specials.
3: The extra, and digital shoulder buttons make a shoulder jump viable as a primary jumping option. (In smash 4, many top players used a shoulder jump for specific techs like SH Bouncing Fish, or JC Glide toss, but the springs made it nonviable for a main option.)

That said, the gamecube controller does have the octagonal gate around the control stick. Which helps with some recovery angles, and likely airdodge directions. Though you can mod this onto a switch pro if you really wanted it. (I think some third party, but Nintendo licensed wired pros have this by default)

Hard agree. Smash players really overhype the outdated GC controller imo. More people should move on, and I say that for their best interest. Digital shoulders are so cash for Ultimate. GCC's shoulders just suck and are loud as hell. And the GCC is a little small, I think the wider Switch Pro fits more naturally to the wrist/arms. So maybe even a long-term health benefit, but that's just my intuition. This controller is even better than Wii U Pro(which I really liked). Probably even the Xbox 360 controller too. I'm just giving it more time to be more confident but if I were to judge it right now I would say the Switch Pro is my favorite controller, period.

The D-Pad though may be suspect. I tried taunting a few times and it gave me the wrong taunt I could've swore. I'll probably post an update about it in this thread later on(if I remember).

And can't the lack of the octagonal gate also be viewed as a pro for input mashing? Since it's a perfect circle you can swirl it around faster, so it would be more efficient than the GCC in that regard, right? A small pro, but a pro nonetheless if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Gimj]

I've decided to get a Pro Controller for Christmas this year after hearing all the good stuff about it especially in Ultimate, and I'll be getting it wired for tourneys but I'm not sure which places would be best to buy a wired controller from, more specifically if there's any better brands than others for the controller, I've been seeing a lot of PowerA which seems good but I just wanna be sure. Anyone got any recommendations?

The Switch Pro Controller is what I've been talking positively about. PowerA controllers are different controllers with different feels. They're the cheaper ones, so lower quality is pretty likely. The Switch Pro controller has a wired option you can enable so it doesn't communicate wirelessly. It has modes for both wireless and wired. It uses the charging wire it comes with to do so. If you're willing to pay the price point, I'd definitely recommend the Switch Pro I've been loving it so far. I haven't tried the PowerA series, but I'm willing to bet they're inferior to the Pro Controller.

 

[Cheryl~]

The Switch Pro Controller is what I've been talking positively about. PowerA controllers are different controllers with different feels. They're the cheaper ones, so lower quality is pretty likely. The Switch Pro controller has a wired option you can enable so it doesn't communicate wirelessly. It has modes for both wireless and wired. It uses the charging wire it comes with to do so. If you're willing to pay the price point, I'd definitely recommend the Switch Pro I've been loving it so far. I haven't tried the PowerA series, but I'm willing to bet they're inferior to the Pro Controller.

Ah, I didn't realize the Switch Pro came with a wired option, I thought it only came wireless from the pictures I saw >.< Thank you for the info, I'll definitely try and get that first

 

[SiO2]

Ah, I didn't realize the Switch Pro came with a wired option, I thought it only came wireless from the pictures I saw >.< Thank you for the info, I'll definitely try and get that first

To be precise, its both! Plug in the USB cable, and set an option in your Switch system settings, and the Pro controller uses the USB cable for communicating with the system *instead* of wireless. When you're ready to go wireless, you unplug and its instant wireless.

 

[Deleted member]

I’ve tried playing with the joycons and they’re pretty awful, at least to me. The sticks are way too stiff for my liking, and the entire thing is just a bit too small. I’ll stick to the pro controller.

eh, I think they're fine. Pro Controller/Gamecube Controller is definitely worth a buy.


Fun fact: SSBU can be played:
One JoyCon
Two Joycon per player
Pro Controller
Gamecube Controller
Any past Nintendo Controller(Requires specific adapters and/or modding)

 

[Great Lord Fluffernutter]

One thing that I'm personally concerned about is that the pro controller being able to use a wired connection doesn't solve the biggest problem with wireless controllers: interference. After disconnecting, if the pro controller so much as gets moved enough to trigger the motion controls it's back online and ready to mess with any nearby tournament setups it's connected to. That's why I personally, like OP, am worried about wireless connections at tournaments. Does anyone know a way around this? I considered the old "take out the battery" solution to make it a purely wired connection like we did with Wii u pro controllers, but I don't own a screwdriver small enough to bust this baby open. Should I buy a PowerA for the pro controller feel but wired? Or should I just buy a tiny screwdriver? Speaking of PowerA, how good are they compared to 1st party?

 

[TK Wolf]

FYI, the wired option on the pro controller adds appx 13ms of lag.
Source: https://youtu.be/EvZkty_FQHA?t=280

 

[Semako]

One thing that I'm personally concerned about is that the pro controller being able to use a wired connection doesn't solve the biggest problem with wireless controllers: interference. After disconnecting, if the pro controller so much as gets moved enough to trigger the motion controls it's back online and ready to mess with any nearby tournament setups it's connected to. That's why I personally, like OP, am worried about wireless connections at tournaments. Does anyone know a way around this? I considered the old "take out the battery" solution to make it a purely wired connection like we did with Wii u pro controllers, but I don't own a screwdriver small enough to bust this baby open. Should I buy a PowerA for the pro controller feel but wired? Or should I just buy a tiny screwdriver? Speaking of PowerA, how good are they compared to 1st party?

As I switched to a Pro Controller for SSBU, I am facing the same problem.

But there are two problems for me with removing the battery:

I wouldn't be able to play at home anymore, because the cable is way too short for my setup, and I like the Pro Controller's weight, which will be much lower with the battery removed.

So what would you do in this case?

 

[Great Lord Fluffernutter]

But there are two problems for me with removing the battery:

I wouldn't be able to play at home anymore, because the cable is way too short for my setup, and I like the Pro Controller's weight, which will be much lower with the battery removed.

Wait, so you can confirm the battery removal works? If that's the case then I guess all that's needed is a lag free extension, like one of those USB hubs. If anyone can find one of those, or confirm how good/bad PowerA is, this might be a solution. You'd only need such an extension at home tho, as people sit pretty close to monitors at tournaments.
As far as your weight issue, maybe find some kinda heavy weights and put them where the battery was? Apparently PowerA does the same thing but for the rumble.

 

[trunks182]

You guys are crazy..removing the battery from your pro controller?? What?

The pro controllers are tourney legal. Yes, it's been confirmed.

How could Nintendo's official controller not be? Of course they want you to buy theirs for tournaments.

 

[Great Lord Fluffernutter]

You guys are crazy..removing the battery from your pro controller?? What?

The pro controllers are tourney legal. Yes, it's been confirmed.

How could Nintendo's official controller not be? Of course they want you to buy theirs for tournaments.

Back in smash 4, because pro controllers could turn back on after a match and cause interference with setups by pressing buttons they shouldn't, many people took out the battery and used the charging cable to make it a purely wired controller that can be unplugged like a GameCube controller. Idk yet if the same is true for switch, but it'd help.

Also, Nintendo controls NOTHING in regards to smash tournaments. Heck, not counting the e3 intivationals there wasn't a single Nintendo run tournament in the entirety of smash 4's lifespan (or any other game afaik). Everything related to competitive smash is run by the community (including this very website) and community TOs don't care about Nintendo's profit. They care about how smoothly they can run a tournament. If there's no guaruntee that we can play with wireless controllers without accidentally triggering the motion detector and entering as player 3, a ban on wireless would be only logical. Heck Super Smash Con, a very popular super major, up and banned wireless controllers for this very reason so you could only play with GameCube or battery free pro controller. Nobody minded much though cause the two best controllers were legal and one of them just required a screwdriver. MAYBE if Nintendo ever ran their own tournament they would allow wireless, but that's assuming they ever run an official tournament in america with actual competitive rules and not max items hannenbow or whatever it is they're doing in Japan rn.

Tl;Dr batteries out wire in let's you smash without messing up other people's smash and Nintendo doesn't stop wireless bans because Nintendo doesn't do their own tournaments.

 

[Ajimu]

Except a Switch Pro Controller can only connect to the last Switch it has been synch'd with.
I experience this often when I get to a friends' house : I need to synch my Pro Controller with his Switch when I get there, and I need to synch' it with my Switch when going home. It does not automatically reconnect to MY switch.
The most efficient way to sync' your controller to a Switch is to plug-unplug it : it is instantaneous.

So an idea for TOs :
- It's the player's responsability to sync' his controller to a non-tournament setup after each match.

- Maybe the TO can put a Switch as a buffer near the stage, with the charging cable ready. It would litterally take 2 secs to plug the controller after finishing a match, and there, no risk anymore.​

- If a player actually connects and messes something (like pauses during a match) : player is automatically disqualified, his winnings (when tournament actually has rewards) are suspended, etc. Anything the TO wants to impose as sanction.

Now don't frigging be cowards only to impose **** on players.
- I'm not gonna use a GameCube controller because it is, in my opinion, a ****ty ass controller. I never owned a GameCube, and I suffered enough without complaining.
- Nintendo actually now proposes an objectively better controller, with less input lag, without the material bother of being wired in (which means I ****ing finally can sit on the couch instead of the floor (I even used the WiiMote regularly in the previous games...))
- I ain't gonna remove the battery from my Pro Controller. I payed 70€ for that controller, ain't no one gonna touch it. If any TO tries to impose it on me, I'll take the screwdriver and plant it deep in his ass

The toxic community is the only reason why the GameCube Controller is even a thing anymore. So don't go banning the better option, just because you didn't want to think for a second ('cause you don't need more to figure out a solution to any issue you have. That would be brain-meltingly stupid. Period.

 

[Great Lord Fluffernutter]

So an idea for TOs :
- It's the player's responsability to sync' his controller to a non-tournament setup after each match.

- Maybe the TO can put a Switch as a buffer near the stage, with the charging cable ready. It would litterally take 2 secs to plug the controller after finishing a match, and there, no risk anymore.​

- If a player actually connects and messes something (like pauses during a match) : player is automatically disqualified, his winnings (when tournament actually has rewards) are suspended, etc. Anything the TO wants to impose as sanction.

Good idea. Something like this would probably work quite well, and is only marginally more difficult than simply unplugging a controller. Its up to TOs in the end, but I'm sure they can think of something beyond "GameCube and PowerA only".

 

[Kugelhagelfisch]

Curious about b0xx legality in U

Platinum banned for now, I'm absolutely sure of it. Are the degree angles in Ultimate even the same?

 

[DavemanCozy]

You guys are crazy..removing the battery from your pro controller?? What?

I have no issue with battery out. It works fine without the batter when it's plugged into the dock. Lag is very minimal as well and all wired controllers have the lag anyways.

Wireless or not though players should just bring their own cables.

With that said:

Back in smash 4, because pro controllers could turn back on after a match and cause interference with setups by pressing buttons they shouldn't, many people took out the battery and used the charging cable to make it a purely wired controller that can be unplugged like a GameCube controller. Idk yet if the same is true for switch, but it'd help.

Yes, if you use a wireless controller, you can press the sync button and the controller disconnects from the console, but it is then the players responsibility not to press a face button or trigger buttons, as it would connect to the console otherwise.

I myself use the Pro controller in Wii U, and will be using the Pro controller for Switch. I haven't had issues nor caused issues in tourneys for Wii U, but that's also because I don't stuff the controller in my pocket or my bag where buttons can be pressed, I just carried it in one hand by the cable attached to it. I've had a good reputation for never causing interruptions this way, and the TOs I know in GTA have allowed me to use my controller wirelessly.

3: The extra, and digital shoulder buttons make a shoulder jump viable as a primary jumping option. (In smash 4, many top players used a shoulder jump for specific techs like SH Bouncing Fish, or JC Glide toss, but the springs made it nonviable for a main option.)

That said, the gamecube controller does have the octagonal gate around the control stick. Which helps with some recovery angles, and likely airdodge directions. Though you can mod this onto a switch pro if you really wanted it. (I think some third party, but nintendo licensed wired pros have this by default)

Digital shoulders are the reason I've used the controller for Smash over the GC one, I use shoulder jump since and it makes it a lot easier and less straining on your right hand to perform aerials without having to hop by thumb from a face button to the right stick, or without having to claw grip the controller. It is a much more comfortable combination of inputs for your fingers.

I will say though that it does take getting used to, you won't just learn it overnight, I remember I had a hard time learning the empty short-hop and reverse short-hop backair all over again like that.

Now to the actual point of the thread:
I see no reason why the pro controller is going to be banned in tourneys, whether it is battery off or wirelessly with players taking their own responsibility to disconnect the controller.

 

[Eisal]

After dealing with pro-controllers at a smaller tournament today, I can say that pro-controllers are very annoying.

People expect to be able to play wireless, and that's no surprise at all. In fact, I really like the pro-controller, but the way Nintendo made it, it's really, really bad for quick and easy setup switching.

If you connect to a setup, your controller will be connected to it at all times. It doesn't matter how many times you try to press the button at the front -- the moment you press any button, it will instantly sync to the Switch you synced to last, and can cause all kinds of interference (at character select screen, your hand will come up.)

It was really annoying to deal with because people finished their game, and walked away, and still kept connecting to the Switch (without even knowing.)

I want to love the pro controller for this game, but I can't when Nintendo couldn't make this work more smoothly. It's a big hassle.

 

[trunks182]

I have no issue with battery out. It works fine without the batter when it's plugged into the dock. Lag is very minimal as well and all wired controllers have the lag anyways.

How hard was it to take out the battery? Easy to put back in after the tourney?

 

[Eisal]

How hard was it to take out the battery? Easy to put back in after the tourney?

The battery is behind the shell, so you need to remove a few screws to reach it, maybe 4 - 6 screws in total? The battery itself is very simple to remove, just lift it up with the tip of your finger and it's out. It's very much like a mobilephone battery.

https://youtu.be/_1-KTC7-KWQ?t=96

Looks like something like this, very simple.

 

[DavemanCozy]

How hard was it to take out the battery? Easy to put back in after the tourney?

Yeah it's not hard. It takes 5 minutes to do it quickly. It's identical to removing it for the Wii U pro. The video Eisal posted is good.

Like I said though, if you are responsible you may be able to convince your TO(s) to use it wirelessly. I carry mine in my hand always to avoid pressing buttons by accident.

 

[albertoplus]

I bought the Mario Hori Pad because i saw it like the GC Controller but with the Home and Screenshot extra buttons. Is it really that bad?

 

[GameQ]

FYI, the wired option on the pro controller adds appx 13ms of lag.
Source: https://youtu.be/EvZkty_FQHA?t=280

I'm sad Button2Pixel didn't re-test the wired pro controller for Ultimate. He, GigaBoots, has an all caps sticky comment on his Ultimate video pointing to the video you mentioned as to why it wasn't tested. His theory is that the USB polling rate is slower than the Bluetooth.

BUT THAT THEORY HAS BEEN TESTED TO BE INCORRECT! The Ultimate video clearly shows the GCN controller destroying the Wireless Pro Controller in latency. The XLC video shows the Wireless Pro beating the Wired Pro by 13ms. Why would a GCN controller going through USB be faster than a Pro Controller going through USB, if USB is the actual culprit of the latency? Why would the Wireless Pro be between the two USB options?

These results require a re-testing of the Wired Pro Controller. The Switch firmware could have been updated to better support a USB controller connection in anticipation for Smash Ultimate's release, and thus why the GCN controller tested so well, opening the door back up for USB Pro Controller. The other idea would be that simply the Wired Pro Controller specifically has problems communicating over USB. Either way, we are back to square one, and not testing the Wired Pro Controller because of the previous tests was misguided.

Ultimate Video:
https://youtu.be/FWqSODoookc?t=99

 

[B_Hopsky]

I bought the Mario Hori Pad because i saw it like the GC Controller but with the Home and Screenshot extra buttons. Is it really that bad?

It's not a bad controller if you only plan to use it online or with your friends, but they're banned in tournaments for having a turbo button. Why turbos are banned in smash, I don't know. If someone more knowledgeable could tell me that'd be appreciated.

 

[Grug]

It's not a bad controller if you only plan to use it online or with your friends, but they're banned in tournaments for having a turbo button. Why turbos are banned in smash, I don't know. If someone more knowledgeable could tell me that'd be appreciated.

Something to do with macros. Turbo buttons repeatedly press a certain input for a player using only one press. An analogy that works is using a macro to automatically wavedash for you in Melee.