What buffs does Kirby need?

[MrMFC]

I think there has been a post like this before, but what buffs does Kirby need?
I think Kirby could need a buff for his Up-Throw in knockback, because Kirby hasn't that many good kill options (maybe similar knockback to charizard's would be good, not sure if it's too much though).

Oh and I know there has been a similar thread like this before but the difference with this one is that I only want to talk about his CURRENT moves (I mean don't talk about him getting a new attack), so don't say something like: "He should have his 64 Fair again", because that will probably not happen unless Smash 5 comes out (if it comes out).

 

[Bribery]

I think Kirby's really solid as is but he does need a few buffs to some of his more situational moves, especially his default specials.

These are some ideas I had. I think they're pretty reasonable and don't really make Kirby blatantly overpowered. I think they'd push him to the lower end of high tier though.


Up Throw
It should KO about 20-30% earlier so that it's a more reliable kill throw. I think this is a buff that Kirby needs more than anything else. It can be difficult for Kirby to close out a stock since he's slow and has no kill options that beat shields. I think making his Up Throw as strong as R.O.B's would be reasonable. It would be overpowered if it were as strong as Charizard's considering that Kirby has a much higher damage output than Zard.

Forward Throw
Change its launch angle to be more vertical to improve follow-up potential and to make it a more useful throw in general.

Dash Attack
Either needs to be faster or do more damage. It's too slow and punishable for a measly 9% damage, especially since it doesn't lead into any combos. If it did 14% like it did in Brawl, it would be a really good punishment option.

Down Air
Reduce the start up so it's more usable in neutral. 18 Frames of startup is a bit much and it's very easy for the opponent to react to. Maybe reduce it to 12 frames (only 2 frames slower than Nair, Fair, and Uair).

Inhale
It previously got a much needed end lag reduction but I think it still needs lower start up. This is Kirby's defining move but it's hardly ever used because of how difficult it is to land. Imagine if Inhale could be guaranteed after Dair

Hammer Flip
I can't think of many ways to make this move useful. Uncharged Hammer is almost completely useless. It does less KB than all of his Smash Attacks. Charging the Hammer is situational and rarely works on good opponents. Maybe if it had almost no end-lag like Roy's Neutral B...

Final Cutter
It should auto-snap to the ledge on the way up like nearly every other Up Special. The projectile range should be increased as well.

Stone
Reduce the start up when used in the air. It's way too easy for the opponent to telegraph this move because of how high the start up is.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

This may sound greedy but i ma do it anyway, because Kirby is kinda underwhelming of a character as of now!
I would like to see:

• Kirby's multi jab should link better, it constantly gets jump and airdodged out of. And the finisher should have much less end lag.
• Up tilt damage increased from 4-5% to 7-8%
• Grab range increased slightly.
• Down thrown BKB and KBG reduced in addition to angle change to 90 degrees essentially reworked for combos. (Basically bring back Brawl Kirby's down throw)
• Forward trajectory change and reduced knock back for combos.
• Back throw KBG increased
• Up throw kills at least 130%! Seriously what happened to e3 Kirby's up throw that thing was beast.
• Down air start up decreased maybe to 12 or 11 frames. 18 frames is way too long especially compared to other drill attacks like Fox or Jigglypuff.
• Back air landing lag reduced
• Forward air landing lag and start up time reduced and add some more priority on the move.
• Nuetral air start up decreased, for a good out of shield option and decrease end lag.
• Up air significantly increase knock back growth, killing similar to melee.
• All hits of dash attack link together better.
• Forward smash KOs earlier, it feels... Meh.
• Brawl Down Smash; the tip of Kirby's foot causes horizontal knockback.
• Inhale is faster overall, and should be shielded!! Plus increased hitstun to copy, so you are not punished for copying abilities.
• Hammer is just TOO SLOW and WEAK uncharged, make it faster and stronger uncharged! And gives us an aerial similar to what brawl did, instead of getting you killed.
• Final cutter should:

1. Autosnap to the ledge upon ascent.
2. Can grab the ledge backwards good for edgeguarding
3. Has a consistantant spike hitbox through the WHOLE DESCEND
4. The wave on cutter should be given its brawl range, I have no clue why they nerfed it.
5. Make the move much more frame fast.

• Stone should be either faster or do MUCH more damage (but we all know that won't happen because Sakurai said "I would destroy beginners.") T_T

Kirby honestly needs some buffs to become more viable. However I do find him ok as of now.
He NEEDS to be faster. Quicker run speed and a faster air speed WILL aid Kirby SO MUCH!

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

• Make his Nair slightly faster in Start-up and give it much less ending lag.
• Make the meteor for Final cutter guaranteed, instead of the wave always screwing it up, come on its the second strongest spike, but because of the wave screwing up the meteor, it barely ever meteors them.
• Give Inhale slightly more range.
• Make his Airspeed FAR faster, 4th slowest is just sad....seriously if it were even slightly faster, Fair strings would be so consistent.
• Give his Uthrow slightly more knockback.

Other then that, hes fine.

 

[Poupoko]

Kirby's definitely playable as is, but could still some buffs here or there. Ideally I'd like something like this:

- A more powerful U-throw would be soooo much more helpful in closing out stocks that otherwise last until 200% (i.e. where they can kill you at 60% due to rage.)

- Increase U-tilt damage to like 6-ish% or something (Fox's similar U-tilt gets 9%!!!)

- Give B-air a slight range increase (I whiff this thing so many times and the extra pressure from a little more range wouldn't hurt)

- Slight increase on start-up of D-air or Stone, but not both (because shield breaking would be somewhat reliable then and Kirby is at least top 5 for rewards off a Shield Break, unless you're playing Hammer Bash customs)

- Give F-throw an angle like Mario's F-throw, so it could be more useful in general. No point in having 3 throws to send your opponent in like the same spot.

- Autosnap with Final Cutter!

There's also increasing some kind of speed, but we're probably not getting that. Ever. I don't think anybody would ever get that.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Kirby's definitely playable as is, but could still some buffs here or there. Ideally I'd like something like this:

- A more powerful U-throw would be soooo much more helpful in closing out stocks that otherwise last until 200% (i.e. where they can kill you at 60% due to rage.)

- Increase U-tilt damage to like 6-ish% or something (Fox's similar U-tilt gets 9%!!!)

- Give B-air a slight range increase (I whiff this thing so many times and the extra pressure from a little more range wouldn't hurt)

- Slight increase on start-up of D-air or Stone, but not both (because shield breaking would be somewhat reliable then and Kirby is at least top 5 for rewards off a Shield Break, unless you're playing Hammer Bash customs)

- Give F-throw an angle like Mario's F-throw, so it could be more useful in general. No point in having 3 throws to send your opponent in like the same spot.

- Autosnap with Final Cutter!

There's also increasing some kind of speed, but we're probably not getting that. Ever. I don't think anybody would ever get that.

No no no on the f-throw. Kirby's f-throw combos into f-air at low prevents if they DI anywhere but down, and puts them in a good space in the neutral game.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

No no no on the f-throw. Kirby's f-throw combos into f-air at low prevents if they DI anywhere but down, and puts them in a good space in the neutral game.

Kirby's brawl Forward throw was better, decrease the BKB and KBG, change the trajectory to face upward a bit more, add some more hit stun. And bam you got yourself and EXCELLENT throw.
They should also FIX down throw, he cannot get a follow up of it.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Kirby's brawl Forward throw was better, decrease the BKB and KBG, change the trajectory to face upward a bit more, add some more hit stun. And bam you got yourself and EXCELLENT throw.
They should also FIX down throw, he cannot get a follow up of it.

considering the damage it does compared to other throws that have follow-ups, I think thats a big no-no.
Seriously I feel like people dont really seem to understand that most combo starters/moves have low dmg output because of that(generally)
Our Utilt doing 4/5% is reasonable for how well it can juggle characaters, our dair has follow-ups as well, which is why its dmg is lower then Brawl.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

considering the damage it does compared to other throws that have follow-ups, I think thats a big no-no.
Seriously I feel like people dont really seem to understand that most combo starters/moves have low dmg output because of that(generally)
Our Utilt doing 4/5% is reasonable for how well it can juggle characaters, our dair has follow-ups as well, which is why its dmg is lower then Brawl.

Kirby unlike others though suffer at approacing, he lacks KO power in many ways too, for it is hard to land a KO move, while other characters can land a kill off a combo throw.
While I agree with you on damage out put, down throw is only 10% forward throw is only 8% it isn't that much of a stretch. Since one of Kirby's signature play, is his grab game, which has been NERF SIGNIFICANTLY! However I don't think 6-7% isn't game breaking from 4-5% on up tilt due to range. It isn't like smash 64 doing 11% each up tilt, which has ridiculous hit boxes to boot.

You aren't wrong by anymeans, and sorry if I came off rude, but my list to show what buff will make Kirby a great high tier, not just.... Passable.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Kirby unlike others though suffer at approacing, he lacks KO power in many ways too, for it is hard to land a KO move, while other characters can land a kill off a combo throw.
While I agree with you on damage out put, down throw is only 10% forward throw is only 8% it isn't that much of a stretch. Since one of Kirby's signature play, is his grab game, which has been NERF SIGNIFICANTLY! However I don't think 6-7% isn't game breaking from 4-5% on up tilt due to range. It isn't like smash 64 doing 11% each up tilt, which has ridiculous hit boxes to boot.

You aren't wrong by anymeans, and sorry if I came off rude, but my list to show what buff will make Kirby a great high tier, not just.... Passable.

Kirby doesn't have bad kill power. It's average or maybe even above average. U-smash and d-smash kill at 110-130% and have crazy fast startup, f-smash has good range, b-air comes out fast and kills, his edge-guarding game is good too.

Kirby had good throws in brawl, but this isn't brawl. His d-air is probably his signature move but it's debated that u-tilt is. Plus, kirby's d-throw is good. Sends them at a nice angle, and pummelling adds 5ish %, so that's 15% off of a throw, which can be combos from.

For example, Dair - d-tilt - pummel d-throw is a string that does around 30%. That's crazy good.

 

[Phan7om]

Changes

• Be able to auto cancel SH Fair (rarely anyone knows how good that was in Brawl, very underrated imo)
• Be able to double jump out of SH Bair, easier than you could in Brawl
• Be able to SHFF auto cancel SH Bair like you could in Brawl
• Nair startup decreased
• Dsmash KB angle changed to be more horizontal.
• Uthrow more KB
• D-throw changed back to Brawl (in terms of angle and KB)
• Uncharged Hammer KB increased significantly (both grounded and aerial)
• Inhale startup decreased slightly

Makes him good but doesnt make him Luigi. A lot of changes I see in this thread would make Kirby braindead af.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

I never meant he had bad KO power I was wrong about that, but his KO potential could be better, as his KO moves are tricky to land, that is why back air should have less land lag and have Up throw Killing earlier. And while his edge gaurding game is pretty good. I believe a faster air speed would benefit him greatly.

I am well aware this isnt brawl, doesnt change the fact his throws can be improved, like Villager and Link, and no they are no guaranteed follow ups on down throw decent positioning and that's about it, pummeling only reliable at mid to high percents. At low percentages down throw should link to up air 20%. because pummeling WILL NOT be ideal at low percents.
Down air has always been a signature for edgeguarding and now for a combo starter cool! However it is to slow and predictable anyone can react to it unless you use it very tricky. Every Kirby I fight 80% of them approach with Dair, guess what I see it. I punish.

Kirby is a pretty solid character, he is always been my main. But I not being pessimistic don't get me wrong.
BUT I am not here to praise Kirby and say how good he is either. I here to analyse how Kirby can be made better.
How Kirby can be improved and buffed, don't tell me he can't be better cause that would be a lie.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Makes him good but doesnt make him Luigi. A lot of changes I see in this thread would make Kirby braindead af.

Brain dead? Explain please.

 

[Phan7om]

Brain dead? Explain please.

I throw that word out a lot, I really dont literally mean brain dead. Ik i should stop.

But when I do say it, I mean it makes the character TOO easy to play to the point where you almost dont need to think. People, not me but people, say this is true about certain characters like Mario, Luigi, Falcon, pre-patch Diddy, etc. Tbh, I think the other characters listed above are fine, but I think if your Kirby design got included it would be "worse" than those imo. A lot of the changes are fine by themselves (I actually like a lot of them, but together they arent good design), but some are just lol. The green text at the bottom is cool as well, just everything together is 2 gud.

I know this is all for fun and stuff, so we can list any broken thing we want haha. I didnt really mean anything about it when I said certain changes would be braindead, its just that I want people to be more aware of good design.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

True, if everything I mentioned above was added, we may well be saying hello to the next Diddy Kong. XD
My list was going over each move systematically and how it could or may need to be improved.

 

[MrMFC]

Kirby doesn't have bad kill power. It's average or maybe even above average. U-smash and d-smash kill at 110-130% and have crazy fast startup, f-smash has good range, b-air comes out fast and kills, his edge-guarding game is good too.

Kirby had good throws in brawl, but this isn't brawl. His d-air is probably his signature move but it's debated that u-tilt is. Plus, kirby's d-throw is good. Sends them at a nice angle, and pummelling adds 5ish %, so that's 15% off of a throw, which can be combos from.

For example, Dair - d-tilt - pummel d-throw is a string that does around 30%. That's crazy good.

The problem about his kill options is that he gets punished quite easily for average KO-options imo

 

[Dessa]

I would be happy with an improved inhale: Less cooldown, less startup. If that's unbalanced, give it a damage nerf. Getting an inhale is a huge equalizer against projectile characters which are normally very difficult for Kirby. The fact that Kirby can duck and shoot under some projectiles is balanced by the fact that Kirby has to earn his projectiles to begin with.

A throw combo would be nice too. IDC which throw. All the other stuff would be nice, and probably make Kirby top-tier, but IMO he doesn't need to be top tier. He just needs an answer to the huge portions of the cast that can zone him out (improved inhale would make his vs. Sonic Game a lot better too).

 

[Poupoko]

No no no on the f-throw. Kirby's f-throw combos into f-air at low prevents if they DI anywhere but down, and puts them in a good space in the neutral game.

I knew that would be a trade off, but really F-throw to F-air doesn't work on most characters and the ones that get affected also get affected by B-throw to B-air (except for ROB I think, though we do OK against him anyway). I'd keep the knockback, but change the angle so we could edgeguard easier (while still not making it total cake) and pressure a little better.

The problem about his kill options is that he gets punished quite easily for average KO-options imo

Yeah, this exactly. If you're facing someone who knows the Kirby MU then good luck trying to land an U-smash at higher percents. B-air has short range and D-air is pretty slow. All of those are useful for KOing, but only U-smash has amazing KO power, not to mention they're all rather big commitments.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I knew that would be a trade off, but really F-throw to F-air doesn't work on most characters and the ones that get affected also get affected by B-throw to B-air (except for ROB I think, though we do OK against him anyway). I'd keep the knockback, but change the angle so we could edgeguard easier (while still not making it total cake) and pressure a little better.



Yeah, this exactly. If you're facing someone who knows the Kirby MU then good luck trying to land an U-smash. B-air has short range and D-air is pretty slow. And all of those are rather big commitments.

Yeah his kill options are kinda telegraphed but theyre good none-the-less. A good player will still get hit by smashes. Thats like saying a good player won't be killed by a ZSS up-b but even ZeRo has died to that.

 

[Poupoko]

Yeah his kill options are kinda telegraphed but theyre good none-the-less. A good player will still get hit by smashes. Thats like saying a good player won't be killed by a ZSS up-b but even ZeRo has died to that.

Well ZSS Up-B is really fast, compared to our smashes. The slower moves are, the less useful they tend to be. You don't see people ending stocks with Ganon U-tilt or Kirby's fully charged Side-B too often.

I'm not really advocating for faster moves or anything, but if U-throw KO'ed at 165% instead of the current 191% we'd be way better off.

 

[MrMFC]

Well ZSS Up-B is really fast, compared to our smashes. The slower moves are, the less useful they tend to be. You don't see people ending stocks with Ganon U-tilt or Kirby's fully charged Side-B too often.

I'm not really advocating for faster moves or anything, but if U-throw KO'ed at 165% instead of the current 191% we'd be way better off.

Also ZSS has quite good setups for the UpB

 

[SRUFUS3D]

I want to inhale WITHOUT being punished upon copying! Kinda dumb that I can't copy fox, robin etc Without getting hit. Add stun to the opponentor OR let us act faster out of the move upon copy so we can at least shield against it.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Well ZSS Up-B is really fast, compared to our smashes. The slower moves are, the less useful they tend to be. You don't see people ending stocks with Ganon U-tilt or Kirby's fully charged Side-B too often.

I'm not really advocating for faster moves or anything, but if U-throw KO'ed at 165% instead of the current 191% we'd be way better off.

Dude, u-smash ain't slow, its prob just average tbh. D-smash is crazy fast though. My argument with ZSS's up-b is that it is super predictable, but even the best still get hit by it.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Usmash 14 frames of Start-up not bad at all
Fsmash 13
Dsmash 11

Generally pretty quick smashes, all with good power.
Though I would assume his Usmash is his strongest smash attack?

 

[Poupoko]

Usmash 14 frames of Start-up not bad at all
Fsmash 13
Dsmash 11

Generally pretty quick smashes, all with good power.
Though I would assume his Usmash is his strongest smash attack?

Yeah, Kirby's U-smash is one of the strongest actually: KO's Mario at 100% on FD, Fox KO's at 104%.

I never said Kirby's U-smash was slow, but Kirby himself is slow and his KO moves have significant punishable endlag. Having a way to start killing at less than 180% without always having to take a massive, potentially stock-ending risk would be really neat. It would make him way better without making him SS-tier amazing.

 

[Altair357]

It's simple, really. Double his air speed, buff up throw, and give dair a bit less landing lag to be better in neutral and also so it could true combo into up or forward smash with consistency.

Up throw should definitely be an incredible kill move, possibly on the level of Charizard's. There's no reason for it not to be. It gives a massive improvement to his high percent grab reward, but isn't unfair by any stretch.

You could also improve his ground speed a bit, but with the up throw buff this might be a bit unbalanced.

 

[MrMFC]

It's simple, really. Double his air speed, buff up throw, and give dair a bit less landing lag to be better in neutral and also so it could true combo into up or forward smash with consistency.

Up throw should definitely be an incredible kill move, possibly on the level of Charizard's. There's no reason for it not to be. It gives a massive improvement to his high percent grab reward, but isn't unfair by any stretch.

You could also improve his ground speed a bit, but with the up throw buff this might be a bit unbalanced.

Doubling his air speed? That'd be too much, increasing it slightly would be enough. Also dair should have less startup, its landing lag is good, otherwise a true combo into a smash would be too op since Kirby can deal much damage quite fast, so he's supposed to have it difficult with killing an opponent. Up-Throw should be worse than Charizard's (Kirby's UpThrow should kill 30% earlier than atm), again it'd make it too easy to kill with Kirby imo

Also if his nair would have less lag (in the air, not landing lag) that'd be way better too so we could gimp with it, but this buff isn't really necessary.
I think this are the buffs which together wouldn't make Kirby OP but still way better.

 

[Altair357]

Doubling his air speed? That'd be too much, increasing it slightly would be enough. Also dair should have less startup, its landing lag is good, otherwise a true combo into a smash would be too op since Kirby can deal much damage quite fast, so he's supposed to have it difficult with killing an opponent. Up-Throw should be worse than Charizard's (Kirby's UpThrow should kill 30% earlier than atm), again it'd make it too easy to kill with Kirby imo

I wouldn't consider the dair change OP, as it's rather difficult to land on a competent opponent as-is. It'd likely be a bit OP if you significantly decreased both the startup and the landing lag, but one or the other would be sufficient.

Perhaps double air speed would be a bit overwhelming, but he doesn't have much range on his aerials to begin with. A good speed buff would be a very welcome addition nonetheless.

Making up throw kill at 160 rather than 190 is basically changing it into a slightly better version of Marth's up throw (as it tops platforms), which in my opinion would be quite lackluster on a character that lacks the early kills of Marth. Kirby has an average-ish damage output, but a great kill throw would give him an edge. It's good on stages like Delfino as-is, but that's just a few stages. I'd settle for 140 or so, but I think 160 is getting too far into "your opponent should have been dead a while ago" territory.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Up throw should kill at 120 - 130% at least on the ground...
Doubling air speed is a bit much, I say 125%-150% current air speed.
Dair needneeds to come out quicker. But it landing lag could left alone, atmost a or two frame shorte would help though.
Make copy unpunishable shouldnt have to complained about, it is just dumb I cannot copy others without getting hit.

 

[MrMFC]

I wouldn't consider the dair change OP, as it's rather difficult to land on a competent opponent as-is. It'd likely be a bit OP if you significantly decreased both the startup and the landing lag, but one or the other would be sufficient.

Perhaps double air speed would be a bit overwhelming, but he doesn't have much range on his aerials to begin with. A good speed buff would be a very welcome addition nonetheless.

Making up throw kill at 160 rather than 190 is basically changing it into a slightly better version of Marth's up throw (as it tops platforms), which in my opinion would be quite lackluster on a character that lacks the early kills of Marth. Kirby has an average-ish damage output, but a great kill throw would give him an edge. It's good on stages like Delfino as-is, but that's just a few stages. I'd settle for 140 or so, but I think 160 is getting too far into "your opponent should have been dead a while ago" territory.

I don't know why but I thought upthrow would kill at 170 so yeah 140 is good, also I'd rather have less startup on dair than less lag, because dair is too predictable unless you bait your opponent and punish him

 

[Wintermelon43]

I just want him to get biased and over-buffed to the extreme by Sakurai, along with King Dedede, so that people stop underating the two.

But serisualy, I think they should make his up throw KO earlier, and make his feet bigger (Without changing his crouch) so that all his moves involving feet have more range.

Edit:Slightly faster air speed would be good too.

 

[MrMFC]

I just want him to get biased and over-buffed to the extreme by Sakurai, along with King Dedede, so that people stop underating the two.

But serisualy, I think they should make his up throw KO earlier, and make his feet bigger (Without changing his crouch) so that all his moves involving feet have more range.

Edit:Slightly faster air speed would be good too.

Ye that'd be a good solution too. I generally feel like characters shouldn't get that many nerfs but rather buffs atm, I feel like it's the perfect time to buff the other characters to high tier level

 

[SRUFUS3D]

That was my mind set from the beginning.

 

[Dessa]

I don't think it'd be a good idea to adjust air or ground speed too much. Basic movement is what connects a character to their franchise -- what makes them feel like them. Kirby doesn't move terribly quickly in any of his games. He bounces and floats like a marshmallow or a hard-boiled egg. I can't think of a game where this isn't the case. Air Ride maybe? He's floaty and slow in Dream Course, in Pinball, in Canvas Curse, and in all his platformers. You mess with that too much, and you get something that doesn't feel like Kirby.

Which is part of why I'm so annoyed that inhales are as difficult as they are. It's a defining element and you barely get the opportunity to play with it because it's never truly safe. Mechanical things like adjusting throws and knockback and the like aren't so consequntial, and IMO, they're ideal for balance purposes. Just not movement. Kirby moves just like he should right now, or very close to it.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

I don't think it'd be a good idea to adjust air or ground speed too much. Basic movement is what connects a character to their franchise -- what makes them feel like them. Kirby doesn't move terribly quickly in any of his games. He bounces and floats like a marshmallow or a hard-boiled egg. I can't think of a game where this isn't the case. Air Ride maybe? He's floaty and slow in Dream Course, in Pinball, in Canvas Curse, and in all his platformers. You mess with that too much, and you get something that doesn't feel like Kirby.

Which is part of why I'm so annoyed that inhales are as difficult as they are. It's a defining element and you barely get the opportunity to play with it because it's never truly safe. Mechanical things like adjusting throws and knockback and the like aren't so consequntial, and IMO, they're ideal for balance purposes. Just not movement. Kirby moves just like he should right now, or very close to it.

I see what you mean actually, if I recall correctly Kirby's fastest flight speed was from Adventure, run speed from squeak squad. And we don't want a Gourmet race speeds that is game breaking. But Kirby moves faster in his games by comparison aside triple deluxe and honestly noone is asking from falcon speed, just more like an air speed that makes sense.
But your argument is slightly wonky since no one would care about my Samus, being slow on the ground and air (by gameplay, she is one of the fastest movers on her gamesgames compared to other I.Ps) she can shoot missiles and charge even faster than Sm4sh in the prime games.
So on the other hand couldcould I just not say, Samus should be this for she doesn't feel like Samus?

 

[Dessa]

I dunno man, maybe my memory is off, but I remember the Samus from all the sidescrolling games as pretty slow. She's certainly floaty in those games.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Then why is one of the most speed ran games of all time? Samus only falls slow everything else is another story.Edit: Infact Samus is not as floaty as she is in smash even in Super Metroid.

 

[Dessa]

Because what games people choose to speedrun has literally nothing to do with how fast those characters move.

I played metroid, super metroid, and metroid 2 back in the day. She felt pretty damn floaty to me. She's even floaty in Prime. We're going to have to agree to disagree on Samus. She feels like Samus has always felt to me.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Eh OK, she is floaty tho, but she is faster, than she is portrayed. Zero mission (remake of first game) Fusion and Super Metroid prove this, I was playing that game last night in fact she is quick, maybe you weren't using the run button back then? No offence, it is your opinion. Metroid and Metroid 2 she is slow due to hardware limitations, Prime is slow since she isn't running but more like walking. ZSS is not faster than Samus either just weaker in the actual game but no one mentions that...

 

[kirbyfan66]

Kirby needs a "get off of me" option. So many good characters have super quick aerials and Kirby just doesn't have any. It would be pretty ridiculous to give Kirby a Frame 3 Nair, but if other characters can have it, I think Kirby should too. I hate to bring it up, but P:M did that and it's one of Kirby's funnest tools.

I've seen people say a range increase for Back Air and a knockback increase for Up Throw, and I highly agree with both. I think at least one of his aerials should auto-cancel, too, and while I would personally pick Forward Air, although any of them are solid options on their own. And yes, Final Cutter should REALLY autosnap!

Down Throw is fine as is, dealing almost 11% is absurd for a throw on a character like Kirby. Forward Throw needs to be better, though, because as of right now it's his most useless throw by far.