What "bad habits" can you get from fighting cpus over level 2?

[TheNero]

what bad habits can you get?

 

[TuukkaTime]

CPUs tend to do the same things over and over. Just for example, the Fox CPU basically always firefoxes 45 degrees upwards to the stage and at higher levels will 90% of the time dthrow to shine. The bad habits extend to just CPUs in general though - CPU's will never CC you, challenge you offstage too hard, etc.

 

[Sutekh]

The newest version of 20XX has a CPU overhaul that makes them play more similarly to real players. If you don't have people to play with regularly, I'd highly recommend checking it out.

 

[Squire]

They don't DI, they don't go offstage, and they just do stupid things in general. Notable examples: Luigi will never up-B to recover. If you get him too low for a double jump recovery, he'll just missile himself into the void. Ganondorf will up-B you almost every time you jump, and if you're hanging on the stage and you drop and jump re-grab, he'll just up-B himself off the ledge and die. If a CPU is on a platform above you, they will drop down 100% of the time, instead of running off, jumping off, or (obviously) wavelanding off.

All-in-all, CPUs are extremely predictable and can stagnate your gameplay in the same way that playing one friend over and over can. Except your friend can learn and CPUs can't.

 

[TheNero]

The newest version of 20XX has a CPU overhaul that makes them play more similarly to real players. If you don't have people to play with regularly, I'd highly recommend checking it out.

I have been using the 3.0 of 20xx for the in-game CPU toggles. do they work on 4.0 now?

 

[Dolla Pills]

CPU's basically don't resemble human play whatsoever. The low level ones don't do anything and the high level ones read your inputs and react in an algorithmic fashion. There is no adaptation, nothing resembling a proper neutral, and they can be beaten by very simple tactics like roll back fsmash, or always recovery high. Low level ones can be useful for combo practice in 20xx but otherwise treating them like a human player will be quite detrimental to your play.

I'm aware the new hack pack has new AI, but I haven't looked into it enough to give an opinion of it. From what I briefly saw from Leffen's stream it still did not act like a human (at least the level he was playing).

 

[TuukkaTime]

CPU's basically don't resemble human play whatsoever. The low level ones don't do anything and the high level ones read your inputs and react in an algorithmic fashion. There is no adaptation, nothing resembling a proper neutral, and they can be beaten by very simple tactics like roll back fsmash, or always recovery high. Low level ones can be useful for combo practice in 20xx but otherwise treating them like a human player will be quite detrimental to your play.

I'm aware the new hack pack has new AI, but I haven't looked into it enough to give an opinion of it. From what I briefly saw from Leffen's stream it still did not act like a human (at least the level he was playing).

It's much better than it was, and IMO it's good to practice on - Fox and Falco both finally recover well and are great edgeguarding practice. The problem is (like you said) the new AI is still predictable. For example, I can camp the **** out of the AI fox with projectiles and it will be happy to just dash dance/block it/not really approach. It will never adapt and camp me back wiht lasers (about twenty times better for damage output than YL's projectiles) and I could potentially get in the bad habit of thinking camping fox without consequence works.

 

[Dolla Pills]

It's much better than it was, and IMO it's good to practice on - Fox and Falco both finally recover well and are great edgeguarding practice. The problem is (like you said) the new AI is still predictable. For example, I can camp the **** out of the AI fox with projectiles and it will be happy to just dash dance/block it/not really approach. It will never adapt and camp me back wiht lasers (about twenty times better for damage output than YL's projectiles) and I could potentially get in the bad habit of thinking camping fox without consequence works.

Yeah that's nice that edgeguarding is better, but my idea is that you still can't learn neutral from playing them. Again I've only seen them played briefly

 

[SAUS]

Yeah that's nice that edgeguarding is better, but my idea is that you still can't learn neutral from playing them. Again I've only seen them played briefly

Most people can't learn neutral from playing real people. At least the new CPUs CC stuff, mix up their recoveries (fox and falco), and just generally actually force you to respect options that players can / will do (EX: ledge dash options).

The main problem with CPUs is that they never change what they do (as noted above). You find a couple ways to get openings and then you spam them. This happens against real people, too, but the better players will change it up forcing you into this process again.

 

[Dingding123]

Instead of practicing against cpu's in regular melee, try Training Mode and set the training dummy on Evade. Heck, feel free to set 3 CPUs on evade at the same time. They won't wavedash or fastfall but they'll try to avoid you as you're approaching them. Practicing against something trying to run away can help make your aggression safer and can help you realize how dangerous certain approach options might be if you have poor spacing especially near the ledge.

 

[Tid]

as a samus player i always find myself going for way too many unsafe grabs against real players if i've spent some time fighting the high level CPUs. they're super super easy to get caught out by the grapple because they just keep walking towards you or shield. they also let you go for unreliable followups because they dont act fast enough out of hitstun or DI at all so you're in trouble if you end up trying those same things out against actual players.

 

[Zi^]

They never dash, and do stupid things.
The Fox CPU uses alot of jabs, never combos you, uses only Down Throw and F-Throw, his Neutral is **** and his edgeguarding is JAB ON THE STAGE, WAIT FOR THE OPPONENT TO UP-B, JAB AGAIN, WAIT FOR THE OPPONENT TO UP-B, JAB AGAIN, WAIT FPREUFKQWF-

 

[Sutekh]

I have been using the 3.0 of 20xx for the in-game CPU toggles. do they work on 4.0 now?

I actually haven't downloaded it yet because of that reason, apparently the in game toggles haven't been added to the new build yet