What are sheik's absolute worst matchups?

[ZoltGear]

The 3 characters I play the most are Ganondorf, DK and Yoshi, and all 3 get destroyed by my brother's sheik even though I can beat all his other characters consistently.
I hate everything about her, her hits send you at such awkward speeds and angles they are a pain in the ass to tech, she's way too fast for the characters I play and the angle of her Fair denies the recoveries of my 3 mains perfectly and often kills me at low-mid percent, especially on DK where a Fair close to the edge kills me at 40%.
I'm not looking for advice on these matchups, I just want to know which characters are the best to deal with her and I'll learn one of them for the sole purpose of beating him. And don't bother on telling me to find a character that "fits my style" or to get better with the one I already play please.
Thank you.

 

[4tlas]

Welcome to the forums!

Sheik's playstyle revolves around things that people call "fundamentals", as opposed to "gimmicks". I would call these misnomers, but essentially this means that she does well due to her speed and combo potential as opposed to relying on a few tactics that only work when abused heavily and left uncountered.

To counter most of Sheik's abilities, you either need to abuse a gimmick REALLY hard or just play with better fundamentals than your opponent. Better fundamentals can be done with any character, but not all of them have gimmicks to abuse (I hate "gimmick" as a term but its easier to say than "niche strat")

Some gimmicks that may work against your brother would be characters with good projectiles (Samus, Falco, Link), great spacing abilities (Marth, Ivysaur, ...Link), or great grab games (DK mainly), which counter camp, spacing/approach, and approach respectively.

I don't know how your brother plays, but you already play DK so if you know how to both shield grab and use it for heavy punishes, then I guess that's not your problem. If you need different abilities in a character, I would recommend Link. His projectiles allow you to outcamp your opponent, which forces them into an approach, which you can then outspace with your sword. I find Link to be one of Sheik's hardest matchups, but nevertheless she still does decently.

Really it all comes down to just being better than your opponent, as Sheik's all-around basic moveset doesn't have any huge weaknesses. She's somewhat lacking on kill power, but as you mentioned makes up for it with gimping. She has no disjoints so her spacing is difficult, but she is so fast and her moves are quick enough that she can make up for it with careful movement. You really just have to be better than him, no matter what "counterpick" character you choose. Good luck!

 

[ZoltGear]

Well I guess I'll give Link a try or keep at it with DK, thanks a lot for the advice.

 

[Ogopogo]

Lucario beats Sheik 7 to 3. Sheik will rarely kill before 110 or so, so Lucario's going to have lots of power from his aura mechanic. Lucario's recovery is good enough that he should never be gimped. Luc is a hard counter to Sheik.

I G N O R E T H I S P O S T

 

[4tlas]

Lucario beats Sheik 7 to 3. Sheik will rarely kill before 110 or so, so Lucario's going to have lots of power from his aura mechanic. Lucario's recovery is good enough that he should never be gimped. Luc is a hard counter to Sheik.

Are you thinking of a different game? The aura mechanic in PM doesn't gain that much from being hit, right?

 

[Ogopogo]

Wow, DISREGARD THAT ENTIRE POST. I thought this was Smash 4 boards. Thx for pointing that out, wow gj ogo

Sheik is top 5 in the game right now imo, but she still doesn't have good approach options. Pick someone who can wall her out and make her come to you, maybe Link Samus or Fox. I think DK does alright against her too.

 

[Idostuff]

Link gets bodied by Sheik, just saying. Maybe try Samus, she is just a better Link as of 3.5

 

[InfinityCollision]

Sheik beats Link pretty handily if you know the matchup. It was arguably favorable for her in 3.0 too, she just wins harder now. Sheik v Fox is still pretty even I think. DK just begs to be edgeguarded. Samus might be evenish maybe? I don't see it as a losing matchup at any rate, probably somewhere in the 5-5 to 6-4 zone.

Sheik doesn't really have any hard counters, she's too flexible and the new meta is very good for her. There is no golden ticket to a win, whether you want to hear it or not.

 

[4tlas]

Sheik doesn't really have any hard counters, she's too flexible and the new meta is very good for her. There is no golden ticket to a win, whether you want to hear it or not.

This is most certainly true. She has options in all matchups, so any MU where the opponent has strong strengths but weak weaknesses boils down to who can abuse the strengths/weaknesses harder.

He is asking for a "counterpick", when there is none because she can circumvent other characters' strengths and hit their weaknesses. His only options are to a) get better or b) abuse the strengths and hope his opponent doesn't abuse the weaknesses.

Thus I suggest option b, using Link or DK. Link's strengths to abuse are his ranged game and great juggle options on Sheik, and his weakness to avoid is getting pressured. DK can counter pressure, but once he is offstage is easily gimped. Yes, they are probably overall still good matchups for Sheik, but there is an option for OP besides "getting better" with these characters.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik has bad matches? what are they lol

 

[Arcalyth]

Jigglypuff

 

[KingsGambit27]

I'm interested in everyone's opinion about the Shiek vs ICs Matchup. That was a notoriously bad match for Sheik in Melee, but I don't know if the ICs have been balanced/fixed enough to make that a valid threat in 3.5...does anyone have experience with good IC players?

 

[Tonzura Koite]

I'm gonna go with mirror match, cuz then your opponent is on even ground with you

 

[foxygrandpa]

I'm interested in everyone's opinion about the Shiek vs ICs Matchup. That was a notoriously bad match for Sheik in Melee, but I don't know if the ICs have been balanced/fixed enough to make that a valid threat in 3.5...does anyone have experience with good IC players?

I havent really played against IC's in this game but I imagine zelda doing well against them, so you could theoretically just play her instead if you had trouble or were counterpicked.

 

[KingsGambit27]

I havent really played against IC's in this game but I imagine zelda doing well against them, so you could theoretically just play her instead if you had trouble or were counterpicked.

Does that mean you would agree that ICs are a bad matchup for Sheik specifically?

 

[foxygrandpa]

Does that mean you would agree that ICs are a bad matchup for Sheik specifically?

Yes, probably, like melee. I don't know if they retained the dthrow chaingrab against her, but even without it I still see them slightly beating her.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik beats ice climbers in this game imo. they really have no reasonable outs to ac fair and tip bairs, and the standard chaingrab with downthrow only works to 40% which is kinda soft for a punish in PM. if the IC player can infinite that might change the matchup but so far thats not going to be your average experience.

make sure to di in on the chaingrab and let them chaingrab you, if you do any other di they can chaingrab longer and carry you to the edge into fair spire.

 

[foxygrandpa]

sheik beats ice climbers in this game imo. they really have no reasonable outs to ac fair and tip bairs, and the standard chaingrab with downthrow only works to 40% which is kinda soft for a punish in PM. if the IC player can infinite that might change the matchup but so far thats not going to be your average experience.

make sure to di in on the chaingrab and let them chaingrab you, if you do any other di they can chaingrab longer and carry you to the edge into fair spire.

Ive never really played against ICs in this game but I would imagine the stage picks against them would be generally worse, since they have more opportunities to take you away from platform stages and can set up walls better.
Does the chaingrab work on everyone it did in melee? Or are the properties generally different?

 

[Deleted member]

i don't actually know, i've only played against a couple ICs that could chaingrab properly (and a handful that couldnt) and only as sheik and marth. and i did get chaingrabbed a lot, but it wasn't nearly enough to match my punishment game back. neutral is still as tricky as ever since nana is more resilient to auto-kills but i'd say sheik vs ICs is way easier than it was in melee- which was also totally winnable as long as you were okay with 6 minutes of AC fair spam.

 

[Mean Green]

The 3 characters I play the most are Ganondorf, DK and Yoshi, and all 3 get destroyed by my brother's sheik even though I can beat all his other characters consistently.
I hate everything about her, her hits send you at such awkward speeds and angles they are a pain in the *** to tech, she's way too fast for the characters I play and the angle of her Fair denies the recoveries of my 3 mains perfectly and often kills me at low-mid percent, especially on DK where a Fair close to the edge kills me at 40%.
I'm not looking for advice on these matchups, I just want to know which characters are the best to deal with her and I'll learn one of them for the sole purpose of beating him. And don't bother on telling me to find a character that "fits my style" or to get better with the one I already play please.
Thank you.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

- Doc.
His attacks as quick as Sheik's, but with a reliable comfort move in his b-air and his down-smash, and has easy throw followups. He's pretty straightforward, no explanation really needed.
Suggest to watch: Boss and M2K

He goes by just Mario now. He only practices medicine on the weekends in back alleys in Toad Town.

Also wanted to add that you might want to rephrase Nair being G&W's most reliable move. It's certainly strong, but as slow as it is, it's more of an extremely read based punish. Saying it's his most reliable move might lead people to thinking it's more of an all-around move to be spammed instead of something to punish reads and to finish aerial combos.

 

[Dakpo]

I really enjoy the sheik match up

 

[Deleted member]

Suggest to watch: Sethlon only

Also I enjoy the TL vs Sheik MU, its about 55-45 in sheiks favor but it feels so good to juggle her

 

[Mean Green]

Also I enjoy the TL vs Sheik MU, its about 55-45 in sheiks favor but it feels so good to juggle her

My bad dude. Didn't even know you had a Roy till now. Fixed lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I really enjoy the sheik match up

i really enjoy the gaw matchup

we should fair each other a lot. and then spoon and talk about it.

 

[Juushichi]

I also think the Sheik vs GnW MU is pretty fun. From both sides. I've liked the GnW side a little bit less these days, but I've also been playing less GnW so that's probably why.

I'll have to play Drephen some more in the MU.

 

[ZoltGear]

This is a little late (I actually forgot about this thread) but thanks for the help guys.

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

@ Juushichi @Umbreon @ Dakpo

GnW is one of the only matchups I feel pretty powerless in. Spacies aren't fun but they're at least gimpable. How do you go about playing against GnW?

I feel like I basically have to 100% camp him. His CC options are way stronger, his Dtilt seems to outspace grab, Fair seems to outspace most options and be covered by dtilt, his Dair seems really hard to beat with anything, and most of all his punish game seems way stronger and I haven't found a solid way to gimp him.

How are you supposed to gimp him? His up b goes so far that he can just aim for the sweetspot and save his double jump if you try to edgehog. Is the best option just try to needle him out of his up b so its a weird spacing and punish that?

Are his CC options just really strong? I swear I've SH'd 3+ needles into his face multiple time to try to get a grab and he was able to CC dtilt it at 70+%.

Keep in mind I've only played 10-20 matches against GnW and I could completely be botching the MU.

 

[Deleted member]

i talked to dakpo about this MU in person last night for like 5-10 min, i have issues with GAW too because you need her needles to do too much for you. tl;dr needle grab doesnt work, you need needles to force GAW to use his subpar movement and then you try to hit him when hes not attacking at all. even whiffs are dangerous because his moves hard beat yours. i dont like the MU but that might be because im soft at it

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

i talked to dakpo about this MU in person last night for like 5-10 min, i have issues with GAW too because you need her needles to do too much for you. tl;dr needle grab doesnt work, you need needles to force GAW to use his subpar movement and then you try to hit him when hes not attacking at all. even whiffs are dangerous because his moves hard beat yours. i dont like the MU but that might be because im soft at it

What moves can you reliably whiff punish from appropriate distances? I always seem to get janked out by lingering/disjointed hitboxes. Can you do anything about dair, especially edge cancelled and what about gimping? Please and thank you.

 

[Deleted member]

you can beat moves like dair on startup but its really risky and i wouldnt recommend it overall. you also have to edge guard normally which usually means dtilt > fair or just low fair but you also have to worry about 2nd jump stuff out of up b too. personally i havent solved this MU yet so other people should chime in too

 

[Juushichi]

I've played both sides of this MU a lot between the various GnW's I happen to run into or previously on the side of GnW vs Sheiks like @Fizzle_Boy and @Drephen. I've tagged them both in here, so maybe they can shed a bit more insight?

Unfortunately, I end up having to teach GnW's a bit more extensively the MU from a Sheik perspective so I can't speak to really talented ones since I haven't played people like Dakpo, Nintendude, Strong Bad or anything. I think that camping GnW and taking advantage of his poor approach tools is probably the most ideal. I've had some theories on intercepting GnW Up-B in various circumstances, but honestly haven't gotten the chance to test them.

For what it's worth, I think the MU is still most even with GnW having a slight advantage on FoD and Yoshi's Story.

 

[FrootLoop]

I don't claim to be very good at the matchup but here's some more data points vs a local G&W player here in Wisconsin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX1gPHfyEqY
https://youtu.be/a6liH015CaE?t=52m20s
https://youtu.be/v7rDxpKn3D0?t=1h27m55s

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Would it be okay if I made a new MU thread with all the recent info compiled together?

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

@ AuraMaudeGone just do it.

 

[Only a NOOB]

Well I'm officially picking up G&W now. Thanks guys!

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I think Zelda Might be a good option, I only lose to Sheiks because it is not hard to tech chase on reaction and tack on an almost guaranteed 60-70% especially on fast fallers. I haven't read the other comments, but if the tech chasing is what is beating you, I would recommend a floaty character like zelda or someone else that's not a fastfaller.

If your problem is not with tech chases, then I'd suggest a character that can wall her out like Link or Samus. To be honest I have a hard time playing this match up as well, even if the other person is a little bit better than you, there is almost no chance you beating them imo.